7 Replies Latest reply on Jan 15, 2010 10:54 AM by Barb__O

    Poor results importing PSE7 slideshows into PRE7

    mk60

      I originally posted this query into the Photoshop Elements forum ('cos I couldn't find this one originally...) and received some very helpful replies from Barb__O - thanks Barb.  These have given me some useful leads on things to try, which I've done and did see some improvements, but I'm still not at the point of being happy with the results.  The problem appears to be a PRE problem, so reposting here...

       

      I am trying to put together a video presentation for output directly to PC monitor (more specifically, LCD data projector of 1024 x 768 resolution) and then record to DVD, in PAL SD format.

       

      The presentation is to contain slideshows put together in PSE7 (so they already include title slides, transitions, Ken Burns effects and music tracks) and video clips from a couple of different sources - one clip is a scanned Standard 8 film (format is a frame-to-frame AVI at 720 x 576 resolution ie SD PAL) and some clips from a 1440 x 1080 HD (H.264) video camera (Canon HF10).  Reading through some of the forums, I'm doubting that PRE7 will be able to handle this variety of input formats...

       

      The still images come from many sources - digital camera, scanned prints (B&W and colour) and scanned transparencies.  All images were dropped into the PSE7 slideshow in their respective original sizes/resolutions.  There are close to 100 images in the slideshow.  Apart from a few scanned B&W print enlargements that were spat out by PSE7 because they were too large (other photo editors had no problem with them - seems PSE is a little precious in this regard...) the process of putting the slide show together went pretty smoothly.

       

      Playing the finished slideshow in the PSE7 preview window, the results were excellent.  Exporting the slideshow as a 1024 x 768 WMV file and playing it in any media player yielded the same, excellent results!  So far, so good.

       

      I then wanted to put everything together using PRE7 - slideshows, video clips and titles.  From PSE7 I clicked the "send slideshow to Premiere Elements" at which point the slideshow was dutifully dropped into my currently opened PRE7 project.  As the project already contained the aforementioned scanned Standard 8 clip, the project setting was PAL DV 48kHz.  I was feeling exuberant at this stage.  I added a couple of title slides and a transition or two and played the result in the PRE7 full screen preview window...

       

      I was absolutely horrified with what I saw when the slideshow started to play.  All of the still images were badly pixellated, had jagged edges and any vertical wipe transitions had a horrible, angular ripple effect.  In short, unwatchable.

       

      As I had to get the presentation done and was clearly getting nowhere with PRE7, I exported all my slideshows out of PSE7 as WMVs, my video clip out of PRE7 as an AVI and dropped everything into Windows Movie Maker, with excellent results on the PC monitor and the LCD projector.  Clearly there was/is a problem with PRE7 or one or more of its esoteric settings.

       

      I now want to add another slideshow and the HD video clips mentioned above to the presentation and then burn to DVD.  I would like to use PRE7 to do this, as I can set up menu markers where I want and I want to make finer adjustments to relative positions of stills and video than Movie Maker will allow - but obviously this is all dependent on resolving the quality problems.

       

      After suggestions given by Barb, I played around with the PRE7 project setting and tried various settings here, eg HDV, SVHCD etc.  These certainly improved the quality of the still images in the slideshows (to the point where I was happy with them), but the transitions were still ugly and the pan/zoom effects became jerky and distracting, not only that, but the music track that I had synchronised with the slideshow, with a nice fade out at the end, just ended abruptly - again distracting and not at all good.

       

      To be honest I'm confused with that project setting - should this be set to the format I want the finished project output to end up in, or is it set to the format of video input to the project?  If the latter, how does it deal with different format video clips?

       

      I've also read about the recommendation to set all still images to 1000 x 750 pixels - this would have been fine if I'd known this *before* I put together the slideshows, I don't want to have to re-do them all again (or can I re-size the images while they are actually *in* the slideshow?)!  Besides, PSE7 itself and Windows Movie Maker handle images larger than this, quite happily.  Why can't PRE7?  Also, how is this resolved for large portrait orientated images?  What is the primary dimension (width or height)?

       

      As an aside, I tried re-sizing a single image to 1000 x 750 and dropping straight into PRE7, but I still get poor results (ie grainy, pixellated image)!  ("Scale to framesize" is off)

       

      So am I flogging a dead horse here or can I resurrect things so that I can end up with a reasonably professional looking result?  I really want to love these two products, they do some things really well, but so far, my overall user experience has been one of complete frustration and disappointment.  The user interfaces of these two products have to be about the worst I've come across!

       

      Thanks.

        • 1. Re: Poor results importing PSE7 slideshows into PRE7
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          As Barb has no doubt advised you, you have so many issues going on here that it's almost impossible to know where to start!

           

          Here are some bullet points:

           

          1) As Barb advised, resize all of your photos to no larger than 1000x750 pixels. This will not only give you the cleanest results, but it will allow the programs to work most efficiently.

           

          2) Rather than output a WMV from Photoshop Elements 7, use the Send to Premiere Elements 7 option. This will export your slideshow, in its original quality, into an open Premiere Elements video project.

           

           

          3) Rather than mix video sources, you'll do best to find a way to convert them all to one video format before you bring them into Premiere Elements. In many cases, you can do the conversion right in Premiere Elements by opening a separate project (say, an AVCHD project) bringing in that video format and then outputting it as a down-rezzed video in a single format. I would recommend you use DV-AVI as your output format. Although that won't give you the full 1024x768 you want for your project, it will give you full, standard definition TV, which should look great coming off that projector from a DVD source.

           

          As for your standard 8 film (Is that right? It's 8mm film and not video?) I don't know enough about what format you've brought it into your computer as to recommend a conversion.

           

          Once you've got all of your video sources converted to DV-AVI, you can import them into a Premiere Elements project using the standard DV settings and do a final mix-down there.

           

          4) Finally, don't forget to render your video project's timeline before you judge the quality. (You press Enter and wait for the red line along the top of the timeline to turn green.) The rendered video will give you a much better idea of what your final output will look like.

           

          Good luck with this piece. By nature of the fact that you're mixing a wide variety of media, you've got a lot of work ahead of you.

          • 2. Re: Poor results importing PSE7 slideshows into PRE7
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            Steve has covered the high-points well.

             

            Let's take a look at that 8mm footage, that has been telecined (digitized). What was the output file format and CODEC, that the telecine house provided you with? How was it delivered to you?

             

            Also, do not overlook the suggestion to resize all of your still Assets, prior to Import. This will improve quality - here, bigger is NOT better. PSE will do a far, far better job at the resizing, than PrE can ever hope to. Not only will the quality improve, but the resource load on your computer will drop down significantly.

             

            Good luck,

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: Poor results importing PSE7 slideshows into PRE7
              Barb__O Level 4

              Steve,

               

              FYI - I think that MK had already tried sending directly from PSE 7 to PRE 7 see his mention of

              I then wanted to put everything together using PRE7 - slideshows, video clips and titles.  From PSE7 I clicked the "send slideshow to Premiere Elements" at which point the slideshow was dutifully dropped into my currently opened PRE7 project.  As the project already contained the aforementioned scanned Standard 8 clip, the project setting was PAL DV 48kHz.

              One of my concerns about the specifc scenario is that the PE project setting was PAL SD video and the expected projector resolution was thought to be 1024x768 (and therefore higher resolution). even with Scale to Framesize off, I was not sure if that resolution difference would be a problem.

               

              Your suggestion is making the PAL SD DVD and then using a software DVD player to play that DVD to the 1024x768 projector.   That is a different approach that I had not considered -- but it would probably avoid some of the awkwardness of dealing with 2 distinct types and resolutions of output.

               

              MK,

               

              Your earlier post (if I understood it correctly) said that after the presentation using the projector, you would be making DVDs for distribution. Now I suspect that these would be standard definiton DVDs and probably PAL.

               

              I recommend that you confirm in this thread what your current plans are for distributiion and playback.

               

              Once the best fit for a PE project type is resolved, I do think it is worth another try of sending the slideshow from PSE 7 slide show editor to the PE 7 project.

               

              Yes, you may expereince some timing differences between the playback you saw in the PSE slide show editor and what you see in the playback under Premiere Elements (note Steve's point to be sure that you should render in PE before doing playback).   Based on what you observe for your specific slide show, these differences can be discussed.

               

              ADDITIONAL comments

              played the result in the PRE7 full screen preview window...

              I missed this earlier.  Because your computer monitor is probably much higher resolution, I question whether this full screen preview is an effective evaluation of the final quality. Steve and Hunt, what are your comments on this?

               

              MK

              can I re-size the images while they are actually *in* the slideshow?)! Besides, PSE7 itself and Windows Movie Maker handle images larger than this, quite happily.

              re-size images while they are actually in the slide show -- maybe but not easy

               

              1 --When in the PSE slide show or from the PE Timeline, you can edit an individual photo and replace the existing photo with the results of that edit. However that is a one at a time operation and most probably not what you want.  It is better suited to adjustments to a specific photo when you determine it needs to be differrent for this slide show.

               

              2 --Once your slide show is on the Premiere Elements Timeline, a few people have swapped out a folder of photos and brought in a different folder of downsized same photos. This is tricky but probably can be done: it is probably simpler if all photos are in the same folder. Also portrait photos probably need to be handled separately from landscape photos.

               

              FYI - PSE 7 slide show can sometimes handle larger images and you did not have a problem - but others do have problems and you might in the future. This seems to depend on both the specifics of the photo files and the computer system configuration.

              • 4. Re: Poor results importing PSE7 slideshows into PRE7
                mk60 Level 1

                Thanks Steve, Hunt and Barb for your quick responses!

                 

                It looks like I may not have clarified a couple of points in my original rant!

                 

                I don't have any quality issues with any video clips I've imported into PRE7, they are pretty much perfect - although I have yet to combine the standard def AVI (ie the telecined Standard 8 film - and to answer Hunt's question, I don't know what codec was used, but whatever it is, PRE7 has no problems with it) and the H.264 high def video clips...   As individual, standalone projects they are totally editable and the results are fine.

                 

                I only have quality issues with slideshows sent from PSE7 and any still image added directly via PRE7's organizer (seemingly regardless of the image's resolution - setting images to 1000 x 750 makes no apparent difference).  To describe what's happening with the still images, the effect is like opening a low res jpg image in any photo viewer and zooming in a couple of steps, without the actual enlargement of the image, just the degradation in quality.

                 

                To clarify Steve's comment about the conversion to WMV, I only did this to try and trace which process was causing the problem, *after* first sending the PSE7 slideshow straight to an open PRE7 project.  Sending the slideshow directly out of PSE7 to PRE7 is the obvious thing to do and it was this integration that was the main reason I decided to purchase the Adobe Photoshop/Premiere Elements packages (obviously, if I knew the process was going to be as difficult as it has turned out to be, I would not have chosen Adobe).

                 

                Thanks for the tip on the rendering - I had no idea that this needed to be done manually (I assumed that this would be done automagically).  This might just be the magic that fixes everything...

                 

                Anyway, going back to where I'm at with the project: the audience presentation (ie using the projector) is all done and dusted.  Therefore I don't need to do anything more as far as this is concerned, except for my own education.  As I noted in my first post, I separately saved/shared/exported all my slideshows out of PSE7 as 1024 x 768 WMVs.  I also saved the edited and polished up telecine video clip out of PRE7 as a DV AVI.  That is, no stills or slideshows went anywhere near PRE7!

                 

                I put all these separate clips together into one WMV video using Windows Movie Maker.  On presentation night, I then played this WMV file directly off my PC's HDD using Media Player out to the data projector.  This worked perfectly - all the stills were clean and clear; and the transitions, Ken Burns and music track were all spot on.

                 

                Additionally, I put this completed presentation onto DVD using Windows DVD Maker.  I can slip the resultant DVD into a normal DVD player and it plays perfectly well on a standard TV set (at least on my old-fashioned 68cm 4:3 CRT TV)!  Again, the slideshows, video clip and soundtrack are all spot on.  (Why the heck then, am I bothering to persevere with Premiere Elements when the process just works using other applications???)

                 

                So, all I need to do now is make the DVD...

                 

                I want to add one more slideshow (already completed in PSE7) and about 10 H.264 video clips to the original presentation (ie the one I put together using Movie Maker) and then burn to DVD (I'm a little unsure yet whether this will be in SD or HD format - but most likely will be SD and definitely PAL).

                 

                My plan is to set up a new PRE7 project, directly drag in all the already completed PSE7 slideshows and video clips, set the menu markers, menus, titles etc and then burn the DVD.  Simple...

                • 5. Re: Poor results importing PSE7 slideshows into PRE7
                  mk60 Level 1

                  Well, it turns out the magic really was in the running of the 'rendering' process!  Needless to say, I'm feeling a little sheepish right now!

                   

                  Running the render process on the timeline indeed brought up the green line - and there is mention of this in the manual, but I realise now, that what it describes probably would not have made much sense to me originally, it's not until having this discussion and having it pointed out to make sure it's done, that it makes sense.  If that makes sense?!?! :-)  More importantly, the rendering cleaned up the pixellation of my stills in the preview so that I'm happy with the quality.  The transitions however, still aren't as they were when added in PSE7, but that's a minor issue that I think can probably be cleaned up by replacing the original transition effect with one from PRE7.

                   

                  I think I'm pretty well right with this one now and should be able to battle on, armed with that little bit more knowledge.  Thank you again Barb, Steve and Hunt for taking the time to respond to my yell for help, it's much appreciated!

                   

                  Cheers,

                  Martin

                  • 6. Re: Poor results importing PSE7 slideshows into PRE7
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    Martin,

                     

                    Glad that Rendering helped get you closer. It is for playback, but when the playback is choppy, seems to hang/pause, or the quality is poor, it is very, very useful. Another tip - to see the preview as well, as is possible with an emulation, you can also change the Magnification of your Program Monitor to 100%. It is probably set to Fit. Now, you may need to expand the Program Monitor a bit, to see the full Frame. You can easily switch back to Fit, once you have studied your footage at 100% - just Rt-click in the Program Monitor.

                     

                    Now, what are you seeing with the Transitions? I have to admit that I have never used Transitions in PSE, so there could well be something simple there, that others can help you with. Might save having to manually replace them.

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Poor results importing PSE7 slideshows into PRE7
                      Barb__O Level 4

                      Transitions

                      The transitions however, still aren't as they were when added in PSE7, but that's a minor issue that I think can probably be cleaned up by replacing the original transition effect with one from PRE7.

                      I know of 3 considerations (potentially issues) for transitions when sending a slideshow from PSE 7 to PE 7.

                       

                      1- first, the simpler consideration is that some transitions that exist in PSE do not exist in PE, so an automatic substitution of transitions is done.

                      And no I don't have a list of which ones.

                       

                      2- placement of the transition between the photos can be different

                       

                      Last time I looked, PE is placing the transitions from the sent over slides "End at Cut".  PSE 7 slide show has no choices for transition placement (only a choice from a list of transitions and duraton): my observation from looking at playback of PSE slideshows is that its placement is more like "Center at Cut".  PE does allow this to be changed to make it Center at Cut - in v7 they might need to be changed one at a time.

                       

                      3 - Additionally the placement issues in number 2 seem to potentially impact when the zoom on the next slide starts. People who want the continuous motion of pans and zoom from beginning to end have found this problematic and reported that they needed to change the timing of the zoom by modifying the PE Keyframing,

                       

                      MK

                       

                      How the above considerations might effect your specific slide show I can not predict. Your approach of replacing the problematic transition with another transition available in PE is perfectly reasonable. Please do post feeback about which transitions gave you problems and how you solved it because that info will be useful to others.