1 2 Previous Next 69 Replies Latest reply on Mar 1, 2010 3:14 PM by joshtownsend

    Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card

    dradeke Adobe Employee

      ...bringing the total of official cards to five. 

       

      Trying to keep you updated,

      Dennis

        • 3. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
          tclark513 Level 3

          Harm Millaard wrote:

           

          The other four being: ....?



          GeForce GTX285, Quadro FX 4800, Quadro FX 5800, and Quadro CX

          • 4. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
            Harm Millaard Level 7

            So no support for the GTX295, GTX360, GTX380, and other Quadro models? Let alone the GTX275 and below?

            • 6. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
              Harm Millaard Level 7

              That is a distinct miss! Only supporting out-of-date middle of the road cards (forgetting about overpriced and under performing Quadro cards) and leaving out the next generation 360/380 means that the MPE technology is not yet ripe for RTM.

              • 7. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                dradeke Adobe Employee

                Harm,

                 

                Adobe hasn't said that it won't support newer cards.  Rather, we're being careful about which ones we do support initially.  Newer cards will almost certainly be added before we ship, so I expect the list to get bigger.

                 

                However, we are being careful about not generically saying any nvidia cuda capable card will work because we'd like to guarantee a certain consistent level of performance.

                 

                Again, our goal is to give as much information ahead of time as possible.  This gives people that are considering GPU purchases now a chance to make intelligent choices with regards to Adobe products.

                 

                With my tongue firmly in my cheek, I could say we could be like Apple, where even the sales people didn't know about the latest version of Final Cut until it went live.  How would that be?

                 

                Dennis

                • 8. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                  dradeke Adobe Employee

                  Harm Millaard wrote:

                   

                  So no support for the GTX295, GTX360, GTX380, and other Quadro models? Let alone the GTX275 and below?

                  I think it fair to say that anything before the models we've already mentioned will not be tested or compatible.

                  • 9. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    Giving Adobe the benefit of doubt, I would say the only tested models are the ...

                     

                    All the rest, while often technically better equipped than the tested models, have to undergo further testing before Adobe can confirm their compliance with MPE. We (Adobe) will keep you informed about their status and we (Adobe) hope to issue a list of compatible video cards before 2015, or at least before these video cards go out of production. This happened with our previous compatability lists and we hope to avoid that in the future....


                    • 10. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                      Curt Wrigley Level 4

                      Harm Millaard wrote:

                       

                      That is a distinct miss! Only supporting out-of-date middle of the road cards (forgetting about overpriced and under performing Quadro cards) and leaving out the next generation 360/380 means that the MPE technology is not yet ripe for RTM.

                      This is one "distinct miss", I am going to love using.   I'm glad adobe is resisting the pressure to "support everything" and rather is focusing on a way to make Pr amazingly fast and stable at different hw price points.

                      • 11. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        Harm,

                         

                        Also missing from that list is my wonderful Quadro FX-4500, but I knida' knew that one.

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 12. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                          People who thought that choosing a GTX295, while in the same family as the GTX285, just with far more capabilities, may disagree.

                           

                          People who thought that choosing a Quadro 3800, while in the same family as the 4800, just at a more attractive price, may disagree.

                           

                          If you happen to be one of the lucky 285 choosers, great, if not and you have the 295, you are ***ked. You have a better card but it will not be supported and not utilized. Your choice is to throw it on the dump and get an inferior card or applaud Adobe... which I doubt many in this situation will do.

                          • 13. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                            Curt Wrigley Level 4

                            There is not much luck involved.  Adobe is clearly leaking the supported cards far in advance of the sw release for a reason.

                             

                            The market has proven people will go purchase a specific graphics card in order to have a better editing experience.  See canopus, matrox history.  The problem with those cards is they generally last one Pr generation and are good for one thing.   This new strategy allows your card to last a few generations (if you like) and they are helpful with any graphics requirement.  Starting with 4 cards at different price points is a pretty nice option and nobody has said they are stopping at 4.

                            • 14. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                              Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                              applaud Adobe... which I doubt many in this situation will do.

                              1. Make some users unhappy because their current or favorite card isn't supported and they can't use the rock-solid CUDA goodness; or
                              2. Make a whole bunch more users unhappy because CUDA just doesn't work right on any of the 318 supported cards.

                               

                              If I were in charge, I'd choose number 1.  And so would you.

                               

                              -Jeff

                              • 15. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                                dradeke Adobe Employee

                                If you happen to be one of the lucky 285 choosers, great, if not and you have the 295, you are ***ked. You have a better card but it will not be supported and not utilized. Your choice is to throw it on the dump and get an inferior card or applaud Adobe... which I doubt many in this situation will do.

                                Harm....

                                 

                                Did I say the 295 wouldn't be supported? No... I just haven't affirmed that it will be supported.

                                 

                                If people have directly asked me is the 295 on the list now - I will say no.

                                • 16. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                                  Sorry, but the words "Rock-solid" and Adobe in a single phrase raises eyebrows. In your recollection, was there at any time a "rock-solid" release of a new version? Let alone with new hardware support? What are all the posts on these fora about, compliments about stability?

                                   

                                  Like the blind said: "I must see it, to believe it."

                                   

                                  Where did you get 318 from, when the previous posts explicitly mentioned only 4? As far as I can calculate that leaves out 314 cards NOT supported.

                                   

                                  If it were me and the decision to ONLY support nVidia and NOT ATI were already made, I would not go to market before ALL nVidia cards with CUDA technology were fully tested and approved. Better 3 months later but functional, than a crappy, faulty version that elicits numerous complaints.

                                  • 17. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                                    Curt Wrigley Level 4

                                    So; your solution would be to wait for some technological lining up of the planets and release nothing, instead of a release that has exponential performance with 4 cards.  That certainly is an option, but I dont see that making very many people happy.

                                    • 18. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                                      Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                      What Curt said.

                                       

                                      And there have been rock-solid features in *every* Premiere release.  Notice that I didn't say that every release in its entirety was rock-solid.

                                       

                                      Where did you get 318 from, when the previous posts explicitly mentioned only 4? As far as I can calculate that leaves out 314 cards NOT supported.

                                       

                                      It was a tongue-in-cheek exaggeration to make my point.

                                       

                                      -Jeff

                                      • 19. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                                        Curt,

                                         

                                        Let's be realistic and look at the majority of users here on these fora, how many do you think have a state-of-the-art system with a Quadro 4800/5800/CX or a GTX285? The percentage is pretty small.

                                         

                                        Adobe aims for the masses, slightly uphill from Pinnacle/Ulead/etc. but not quite in the Avid/FCP range, although that is interesting territory. If you limit yourself to very few of your potential clients because of limited support of video cards, and make the upgrade path in the combination of software and hardware too expensive (assume upgrade to CS5 MC around $ 1K and upgrade to Quadro 4800 $ 2K) this will seriously hamper acceptance. This does not seem like a good marketing strategy.

                                        • 20. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                                          Curt Wrigley Level 4

                                          The demographic is going to shift up a little bit with this UG because of the 64 bit requirement.  All the hoobyists with grandma's pc will be cut off.

                                           

                                          Of those who do have 64 bit, its true that few will have one of the 4 cards.  And if they are hobbyists or weekend warriors, then they may be perfactly happy with the sw only engine.   You dont Have to have one of these cards to edit.

                                           

                                          But for the folks who are pros; spending $300 or $4000 even on a card that exponentially improves performance is a no brainer.   That is if it works.   And that is what adobe is trying to ensure by limiting it to a few well tested cards.

                                           

                                          Not a bad plan to have pro sw available to folk who cant afford or need a hw assist card, and the same sw for the pros who do.

                                          • 21. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                                            All good points are made, but since we have to wait for Adobe to come with definite info, somewhere in 2010 we hope, let's not get excited about what is supported and what is not, and just await Adobe's info when the time comes..

                                            • 22. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                                              Curt Wrigley Level 4

                                              Agreed.  Look at this way.  By leaking the card info to us early; Adobe is making sure we dont get caught with our" pants on the ground."

                                              • 23. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                The warning came too late. I just stumbled over them.

                                                • 24. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                                                  Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                                  "pants on the ground"

                                                  Was that guy funny, or what?

                                                   

                                                  -Jeff

                                                  • 25. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                                                    medeamajic Level 2

                                                    I hope Adobe will think of the little guys because I think it would be great if the GT 240 or even the 9400 GT or 9800 GT would be added. I admit they would not have the GPU power of the GTX 285 but if they can give an extra 50-60% boost in performance using CUDA I would be happy. I don't think I will need to edit 5 layers of the native Red One (R3D) video files. I think PP CS 4 works OK but a little CUDA performance boost would be nice.

                                                     

                                                    I also hate the fact that the highend graphics cards on the list take up 2 expansion slots :  (

                                                    • 26. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                                                      Chuck A. McIntyre Level 3

                                                      Personally, I'm very comfortable with Adobe taking the individual card certification approach. We're looking forward to stability and the speed increase for our production work.  Just a gut feeling, but I think Windows 7 64 is a much better "foundation" upon which to program stable editing software. We've totally gotten rid of XP and Vista in our office, and I say good riddance.

                                                       

                                                      I already find one card on the list I would buy for the kind of performance we are all anticipating.  The product won't be released for approx. three more months, so I see 5 certified cards as a positive sign that development is moving forward.

                                                       

                                                      I do agree with Harm about keeping the compatible card list updated.  When I built my own home system, the Adobe supported card list wasn't updated and included cards I couldn't find for sale because they were old and discontinued.

                                                       

                                                      Dennis wrote:

                                                      With my tongue firmly in my cheek, I could say we could be like Apple, where even the sales people didn't know about the latest version of Final Cut until it went live.  How would that be?

                                                       

                                                      Do any of you remember the graphic card manufacturer/Apple vendor whose employee several years ago, released to the public, information about an upcoming Apple product?  If I remember correctly, the Apple CEO went ballistic and canned the vendor.

                                                      • 27. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                                                        boris_jensen Level 1

                                                        Uhh Thats VERY good news... for me

                                                         

                                                        Does the Mercury engine support multiple cards to get more performance ??

                                                        lets say 2 x FX3800 ?

                                                        • 28. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                                                          joshtownsend Level 2

                                                          So people are actually buying videocards for this and it doesn't even have a release date? 4-6 months from now

                                                           

                                                          Also unless I missed something has it even been officially announced that MPE will ship with CS5? So far people are assuming it will ship with CS5 but has there even been an official announcement? There were a couple features that we had to wait for an update to work (FCP import, OMF, AAF).

                                                           

                                                          Somebody mentioned Adobe aiming for the Pro market by supported mainly quatro cards. Ok so you have a RED camera shooting 4k it'll help. But DSLR and AVCHD are consumer formats, people shoot on these formats because they don't have the money for a better camera.

                                                           

                                                          Right now I can edit my multiple p2/avc-intra/dv (hell even single AVCHD and h264) footage realtime already and the only time I'd be using more than one layer of anything is if I'm compositing in After Effects.

                                                           

                                                          I'm also concerned with Plug-in support. Does MPE acceleration ends as soon as I put a 3rd party plug-in on it (assuming that Red Giant and everyone else comes up with a 64 bit version of there plug-in's some time this year).

                                                          I'm guessing that MPE only accelerates the same things that the Elemental Accelerator plug-in supports already and hoping I'm wrong:

                                                           

                                                          Motion
                                                          - Position
                                                          - Uniform Scale
                                                          - Independent Scale

                                                          Effects
                                                          - Opacity
                                                          - Cropping



                                                          Transitions
                                                          - Dip to Black
                                                          - Dip to White
                                                          - Cross Dissolve


                                                          Fast Color Corrector
                                                          - Hue balance and angle
                                                          - Balance   magnitude, gain and angle
                                                          - Saturation
                                                          - Contrast (input/output level settings)
                                                          - Brightness (input/output level settings)

                                                           

                                                          Check out:

                                                          http://www.elementaltechnologies.com/products/accelerator/specs   I'm guessing well see the Quadro FX 1800 validated next.

                                                           

                                                          The place where MPE would really come into handy would be laptop editing I'm really surprised no mobile cards have been validated or even mentioned.

                                                           

                                                          Not meaning to take the piss out of it, it is great technology, RED camera people will be happy as hell. I really hope I'm wrong about the plug-ins. I'd also like to know what formats MPE renders to other than h264 and Mpeg2.

                                                          • 30. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                                                            tclark513 Level 3

                                                            For some reason the link is not working....

                                                             

                                                            Here is the article:

                                                             

                                                            In the battle of GPGPU API's, a lot of acronyms and words are being thrown around. nVidia pitches its set of robust tools such as CUDA language, Nexus development environment, GPU acceleration for open-source Bullet and proprietary PhysX physics engines and many more. From other side, AMD speaks OpenCL through every vocal cord and pore of company's skin, Apple is also the forbearer of OpenCL and its "openness". Intel was supposed to be the third [fourth?] player with Larrabee and its native set of compiler tools, but as we wrote back in early October, the project's first silicon ended up as a dud.

                                                            Dennis Radeke, Adobe Video GuruThus, if you're multi-billion dollar software developing/publishing company Adobe Systems and are developing evolutionary engine for your video editing suite, what to select from all the choices above? In a recent blog post by Adobe's video guru Mr. Dennis Radeke, a lot of things came to light when it comes to an engine that will drive next-generation of Adobe Premiere Pro [a part of Creative Suite 5].

                                                            In the post, Dennis went on to explain "What is the Mercury Playback engine about?  In a word, performance!  It makes Premiere Pro do cartwheels and flips and barely breaks a sweat.  It's like rocket fuel for your car.  It's flat out incredible..." while we might say that this statement might be over-enthusiastic, read on: "In my first test of Mercury, I dropped several P2 clips on a timeline, made them picture-in-picture and looked to see if there were any dropped frames during playback...nada.  I added more clips, bringing it up to eight or nine on my HP XW9400 with 12 cores of AMD goodness...  Think it's the CPU? No! It's only being used at about 20-30%. It's GPU! I keep going and there is no hesitation in Premiere Pro. Okay, lets add some color correction to each one and while we're at it, lets drop in some blurs [that will stop it right?] Still playin' like buttah!"

                                                            P2 clips are short for Panasonic HVX-HPX [P2] Solid State video camcorders, but you can read justified enthusiasm in his post.  But the real thrill came when they loaded several RED 4K files and play with them in real time. In order to do that with a RED 4K file, you need to spend around $5000 in order to get a custom ASIC - RED Rocket. According to Dennis, key to this stratospheric performance jump was the decision to go "64-bit only" in the next version of Premiere [part of Creative Suite 5] resulting in "the best CPU utilization in the business, 64-bit native goodness throughout and you have the insane performance of the GPU backing you up to make more things possible at once than ever before."

                                                            In order to harness the power of GPU, Adobe took one step back, though. Unlike the OpenGL effects Adobe was using in Creative Suite 4, resulting in sub-optimal acceleration for some GPUs, Premiere Pro CS5 is being built using nVidia CUDA software architecture. Yes, this singlehandedly gives the Adobe CS5 market to nVidia but given the share of nVidia Quadro boards versus ATI FirePro - we can't say we're surprised.

                                                            The reason for this decision wasn't a move akin to "The Way It's Meant To Be Played" affairs such as Batmangate or Assassin's Creed, but something more simpler: Adobe needed a stable software toolkit to work on it and according to Dennis: "The 64-bit native code has been announced and now we bring in NVIDIA CUDA technology to be the icing on the cake and a powerful new engine to squeeze out performance in Premiere Pro. Before I wax philosophic on GPU, let me officially tip my hat to the incredible engineers at Adobe and their work here for the Mercury Playback Engine."

                                                            If you are wondering what is the real deal with GPGPU API's, there is a telling tale of why Adobe opted to base its Mercury Engine on nVidia's CUDA language. While AMD will tell you that they're all for open standards and push OpenCL, the sad truth is that the company representatives will remain shut when you ask them about the real status of their OpenCL API - especially if you quote them a lead developer from a AAA software company with 10x more employees than AMD themselves that goes something like this: "I struggled to even get ATI's beta drivers installed and working, it was just problem after problem. Maybe once ATI gets their drivers out of beta and actually allow you to install them then I will have some performance numbers. I mean at this point AMD is so far behind in development tools they are not even worth pursuing right now."

                                                            Before you venture into rants, commercial aspect of GPU technology is a serious business. It took Intel better part of the last decade of 20th Century to get into the High Performance Computing business, and that market matured from being reliant on renting time on Supercomputers to having a multi-TFLOPS machine on desktops. Thus, it isn't surprising to see Adobe going to CUDA first. The plan is probably equal to all plans that we heard so far: go to CUDA in order to completely unlock the GPU potential and only then port to OpenCL, as Apple's and AMD's OpenCL toolkits mature, sometime in 2011.

                                                            Now, Mercury Playback Engine is just one small part of CS5: for instance, Flash CS5 goes as far as supporting GPU-accelerated physics, while the acceleration of Photoshop CS5 is just out of this world. If you use appropriate hardware, the one Adobe can work on and build a set of features, there is one certain thing: Adobe's CS5 will amaze you. The product suite is set to arrive in April 2010.

                                                            • 32. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                                                              joshtownsend Level 2

                                                              I got the link. The article keeps referencing this Adobe blog (written a day or two before the article you linked) where at the top it says very clearly:

                                                               

                                                              "This is a  technology demo only and while Adobe is very excited, it’s not something that  is available now in CS4 nor are we commenting about exactly when it will make  an appearance"

                                                               

                                                              Every one is assuming it's gonna be for CS5 and I agree it almost certainly will. But I have yet to see a press release or blog from an employee that says MPE will ship CS5 as soon as it is released.

                                                               

                                                              Also the April shipping date is a guess based on a stock analysis done in June 2009 (follow the link)

                                                               

                                                              All I'm saying is there's a chance it'll show up as a CS5 update (like FCP import, OMF ect for CS4) and not work out of the box. Maybe Dennis will clear this up by simply stating that MPE will work with the first versions of Premiere CS5. If he doesn't though it's because they are not ready, something I understand since they have to rewire everything for native 64bit operation (that's alot of FX filters to update).

                                                              • 33. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                                                                D&R Films Level 1

                                                                Here.... Let me try.

                                                                 

                                                                The link that wouldn't work!

                                                                 

                                                                 

                                                                Hmm.. link fixed, but still won't work. Maybe article moved?

                                                                 

                                                                 

                                                                • 35. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                                                                  dradeke Adobe Employee

                                                                   

                                                                  All I'm saying is there's a chance it'll show up as a CS5 update (like FCP import, OMF ect for CS4) and not work out of the box. Maybe Dennis will clear this up by simply stating that MPE will work with the first versions of Premiere CS5. If he doesn't though it's because they are not ready, something I understand since they have to rewire everything for native 64bit operation (that's alot of FX filters to update).

                                                                  Unfortunately, I'm not empowered to say any more than what I have - wish that it wasn't so...

                                                                   

                                                                  Dennis

                                                                  • 36. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                                                                    RDA972 Level 3

                                                                    dradeke wrote:

                                                                     

                                                                    Unfortunately, I'm not empowered to say any more than what I have - wish that it wasn't so...

                                                                     

                                                                    Dennis


                                                                    I understand totally.

                                                                    • 37. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                                                                      Powered by Design Level 4

                                                                      I have asked this question before but never got an answer.

                                                                       

                                                                      What does the term "Supported Card" mean ?

                                                                       

                                                                      What does Adobe do to make a card supported ?

                                                                       

                                                                      Is it supported because Adobe has tested it and everything works while other cards tested dont work as well ?

                                                                       

                                                                      Does a supported card have better drivers ?

                                                                       

                                                                      I have a 9800GT and it works fine but would the 9800GTX work better because it was supported ?

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                      Thanks:  GLenn

                                                                      • 38. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                                                                        medeamajic Level 2
                                                                        function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                                                                        Powered by Design wrote:

                                                                         

                                                                        I have asked this question before but never got an answer.

                                                                         

                                                                        What does the term "Supported Card" mean ?

                                                                         

                                                                        What does Adobe do to make a card supported ?

                                                                         

                                                                        Is it supported because Adobe has tested it and everything works while other cards tested dont work as well ?

                                                                         

                                                                        Does a supported card have better drivers ?

                                                                         

                                                                        I have a 9800GT and it works fine but would the 9800GTX work better because it was supported ?

                                                                         

                                                                         

                                                                        Thanks:  GLenn

                                                                        That is what is confusing for me to. Does supported mean it can play five layers of the R3D codec at 4K resolution or does supported imply that it will not crash my system?

                                                                         

                                                                        Dell and HP offer Quad Core systems with the micro ATX motherboards with the smaller mini tower cases. For those select few (I have a small mini tower) the longer GTX 285 and Quadro 3800 graphics cards will not fit in the mini tower cases (to long). I hope Adobe can offer support for the GT 240. That will at least fit in my case. I would not expect the GT 240 to have as much GPU power as the GTX 285 but at least it will fit in my case.  So far all the approved cards are huge. Heck, I'm not even sure if the GTX 285 will fit in my apartment let alone my mini tower  :  )

                                                                         

                                                                        I hope some of the $80.00 Nvidia cards will get supported before Premiere Por CS5 is released.

                                                                        • 39. Re: Mercury Playback Engine will support the Quadro FX 3800 card
                                                                          Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                                                          Check out Dave Helmly's video on Dennis' blog and go to the 12-minute mark and watch.  The MPE is either on or off.  If your card is supported, you can turn on the MPE.  If it's not, you can't.

                                                                           

                                                                          -Jeff

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