14 Replies Latest reply on Jan 18, 2010 7:46 PM by A.T. Romano

    When is it undesirable to have PE8 auto-analyze?

    Steve C2 Level 2

      It's slow, but I am not referring to the time it takes.  Can it have bad effects on certain types of clips?

       

      Thanks,

      Steve

        • 1. Re: When is it undesirable to have PE8 auto-analyze?
          A.T. Romano Level 7

          Steve C2

           

          The Background Rendering and AutoAnalyzer are both a drain on resources and are best disabled and used on a command basis when and if needed.

           

          My major dislike of the AutoAnalyzer enabled is that it will split your video (when you do not want it split) and deposit the clips in a stack.

           

          Background Rendering: disable in Premiere Elements workspace under Edit Menu/Preferences/General. For rendering to get the best possible preview of the end product use instead

          a. press Enter Key in the Edit Mode

          or

          b. Timeline Menu/Render WorkArea

           

          AutoAnalyzer: disable in Elements Organizer Edit Menu/Preferences/AutoAnalyzer options. To get to Elements Organizer, click on the Organizer Tab in the row below the Organize (Blue Tab) in the Premiere Elements workspace. To get out of the Elements Organizer and back into the Premiere Elements workspace, in Elements Organizer File Menu/Exit. When and if you think that you really need to use the AutoAnalyzer on a clip, then seek out the Run AutoAnalyzer command for that specific instance.

           

          ATR

          • 2. Re: When is it undesirable to have PE8 auto-analyze?
            Steve C2 Level 2

            Thanks, ATR.  Your experience seems consistent with mine.  But, can you also answer these, please?

             

            1) How well does the camera shake feature work?  Are there certain types of clips where it should not be used?

            2) My experience, after I disable auto-rendering, is that I no longer can preview clips.  Only one static frame is shown in the preview window after I click on the play button until, eventually, a big jerky move to another frame.  Does this seem like normal operation of the program?  I did not have this problem with PE3.02.

            • 3. Re: When is it undesirable to have PE8 auto-analyze?
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              Steve,

               

              What is the source footage, that you're having the issues with?

               

              Good luck,

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: When is it undesirable to have PE8 auto-analyze?
                Steve C2 Level 2

                Hi Hunt,

                 

                I am importing video from a Sony PD-170 camera.  I recorded the video in non-interlaced.  The audio was recorded off-camera on a Sony PCM-D50 at 24 bits and 96kh and mastered in Adobe Audition at 96khz.  No downsampling to 48khz..  No audio from camcorder.

                 

                For the purpose of your question, I retested by deleting the audio track.  No difference in results.

                I think that I have also had this problem using footage recorded in interlaced,  with regular wav files at 44.1 khz, if this helps.

                • 5. Re: When is it undesirable to have PE8 auto-analyze?
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  I assume that the footage was Captured in PrE. Is this correct?

                   

                  Good luck,

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: When is it undesirable to have PE8 auto-analyze?
                    Steve C2 Level 2

                    Hi Hunt,

                     

                    Yes, the footage for all clips in both projects was captured in PE8.  The only difference is that the most recent project used footage that was shot non-interlaced and the footage is longer in duration.

                     

                    Thanks,

                    Steve

                    • 7. Re: When is it undesirable to have PE8 auto-analyze?
                      Steve C2 Level 2

                      Hi Hunt,

                       

                      As an additional test, I imported the footage that I captured in PE8 into another video editor.  I did not reboot the pc, so this eliminates the possibility of a corrupt system.  The video editor I used for the test is Roxio Video Wave.  The freebie that is bundled with Creator 2010.  No problems.  Very smooth scrolling immediately without any need for rendering.  I would guess that this isolates the problem to PE8/

                      Hope this hels.

                      • 8. Re: When is it undesirable to have PE8 auto-analyze?
                        A.T. Romano Level 7

                        Steve CS2

                         

                        This is just a quick visit for now. I come with more questions than I do answers, but maybe somewhere along the line it will all come together.

                         

                        I did some homework on your Sony. Is it the DSR-PD170? From what I have read about that camera, it comes with three CCD sensors. What has me wondering is your comment that you are shooting at a progressive frame rate. And, what is that frame rate? According to what I have read, the video is interlaced and the progressive applies to the still images. So, how are you setting for video with progressive frame rate? And, what are you shooting....480p instead of 480i or something else. So far, my searching has not turned up any progressive recording opportunities for that camera for video.

                         

                        That brings up another aspect...your Sony offers DVCAM and DV formats.  Which one are you using and are you doing capture firewire into Premiere Elements 8 and which of the two are you using? From what I have read the DVCAM format uses the same tape and compression as DV, but higher speeds. I know that if you were during DV capture firewire with 480p, Premiere Elements automatically converts that to interlace in the DV capture process...no way to change that. And, you are forced to the 480i project preset since there is no Premiere Elements 480p, 1080p project presets. But that is another story. Whatever the progressive footage is that you have, how did you intend to export it from Premiere Elements 8?

                         

                        Were you asking about the video stabilizer in Premiere Elements 8 in an earlier post? If you have shaky or other problems with the video, have you differientated between interlaced issues, problems to holding of the camera during recording, and other?

                         

                        At this point, I am trying to get background information that would help me fine tune by comments.

                         

                        I will go reread the posts that have appeared here since I last visited to make sure that I did not overlook anything that you might have previously posted.

                         

                        ATR

                        • 9. Re: When is it undesirable to have PE8 auto-analyze?
                          Steve C2 Level 2

                          Hi ATR,

                           

                          Yes, the camera is the DS-PD170 and it has 3 CCD.  The user guide does not, as far as I can tell, (directly) indicate the frame rate, But, here is Sony's explanation...

                           

                          "A normal TV broadcast divides the screen into two finer fields and displays them in turns every 1/60 of a second.  Thus, the actual image displayed in an instant convers only half of the apparent image area.  Displaying the whole image simultaneously on a full screen is called displaying with all the pixels.  In ths mode, the resolution of the still picture is clearer than in the normal mode.  This camcorder takes in an image every 1/15 of a second, which may cause the image of a moving object to go out of focus.  This camcorder is originally programmed to record in the normal TV format."  However, on the web page http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/product-DSRPD170/, there is the statement "This compact camcorder features three Advanced HAD 1/3 inch CCDs that allow two scanning modes: 480 progressive (for still) and interlaced (for video).", so perhaps I misinterpreted and the video is still interlaced.  Nonetheless, there is still the problem with previewing   And, this problem does not exist in other video editors such as the mentioned Roxio Videowave (using the footage that I imported with PE 8)..

                           

                          Sony goes on to explain a few limitations of progressive scan, none of which would seem likely to impace PE:

                          1) Fluorescent lighting can cause images to flicker.

                          2) Digital zoom cannot be used.

                          3) Wide screen mode (16x9) is disabled.  Presumably, the image is recorded at 4x3, but there is not much of a noticeable difference in the captured image (the PD170 LCD simply shows stripes on the top and bottom of the LCD screen when shooting in wide screen mode.

                           

                          I use DVCAM and import via firewire and have done so sucessfully for 1.5 years, starting with PE 3.02.

                           

                          I did ask about the video stabilizer earlier on. I asked this question because the auto-analyze function seems somewhat unreliable (stabilization is done automatically there) and I know from using photo editing software that many auto-type functions can produce undesirable results.

                           

                          Thanks,

                          Steve

                          • 10. Re: When is it undesirable to have PE8 auto-analyze?
                            A.T. Romano Level 7

                            Steve C2

                             

                            "2) My experience, after I disable auto-rendering, is that I no longer can preview clips.  Only one static frame is shown in the preview window after I click on the play button until, eventually, a big jerky move to another frame.  Does this seem like normal operation of the program?"

                             

                            I think that we now agree is that you are capturing 480i, not 480p. So, you appear to be dealing with interlaced video, presumed 29.97 frames per second. Please let me know if I am OK with that actual frame rate. Usually I see DV capture firewire and not DVCAM, but, if you say that you have been doing it since the days of Premiere Elements 3.0.2, we will put that consideration aside for now. Let us concentrate on the excerpt that I took from one of your earlier posts.

                             

                            I have Premiere Elements 4, 7, and 8 installed on my Windows XP Professional SP3 computer with "very modest" computer resources at this time. I run with the Background Rendering and AutoAnalyzer features disabled, am defragmenting the computer daily, clearing away unnecessary files, have all the startup programs, except Microsoft Services, OFF, have Premiere Elements scratch disks directed to an external hard drive (format NTFS), and have "Enable GPU Playback" disabled in Preferences. When I want to get the best possible preview of the end product in the Edit Mode Monitor, typically in Photoshop Elements 2, 4, and 7, I would render the Timeline by pressing the Enter Key. But, I could still get the Timeline Indicator to move and the video to playback in the Edit Mode Monitor in a decent fashion when I hit the Monitor Play Button without having to render the Timeline in the Edit Mode. Granted, I was not getting the best possible preview, by a decent representation of what was happening. But, I have not found that true with Premiere Elements 8. More often than not, you need to render the Timeline just to get movement of the Timeline Indicator and a scan of the Timeline content with the Monitor Play Button command. After the rendering, everything is fine. After all, now the question, have you been rendering the Timeline in the Edit Mode and has there been a difference after you did?

                             

                            Premiere Elements 8 itself commands a lot of resources. Its "footprint" (file size), I consider huge in comparison to earlier version. Do we need to look closer at your computer resources with regard to Premiere Elements 8 as your video editor? And, even if you have a 64 bit computer with 8 GB installed RAM, remember that Premiere Elements 8 is a 32 bit application running in the 32 bit compatibility mode of the 64 bit and as such has all the limitations of 32 bit. Management of available RAM, virtual memory, free hard drive space may be in order???

                             

                            Those are my thoughts for now. But, I think that we made progress in that we do not have to deal with progressive/interlaced video issues. I have never worked with DVCAM so I do need a crash course in that to make sure that I know what I do not know.

                             

                            ATR

                             

                            If need be we can discuss the video stabilizer effect, but for now let us see how we do with the above thoughts.

                            • 11. Re: When is it undesirable to have PE8 auto-analyze?
                              Steve C2 Level 2

                              Hi ATR,

                               

                              This might come as a surprise, if it's correct, but the problems might be related to hardware issues, specifically with RAM.

                              I was working with 8GB of 1066 DDR2 RAM, using all 4 slots.

                               

                              I became suspicious of RAM or motherboard issues since after a very long and frustrating PE8 session, my pc monitor would repeatedly go black for a moment  after I clicked on something, even "My Computer".  So, I removed two RAM modules and let my pc cool.  PE8 is working better, although I am still not pleased with its performance.

                               

                              Back to one of your comments - yes, PE is only 32-bit, but in 64-bit Windows 7, so I understand, the memory ceiling becomes a true 4GB and with 8GB, one can do more at one time, in terms of additional apps.  I had increased my RAM from 4GB to 8GB for Photoshop work and there is no issue there.  If I am correct - that PE8 stresses the RAM or the motherboard memory controller in a way that most applications won't, then this is a true mystery to me.

                               

                              For now, I need to do more testing.  I will post additional feedback as I learn more.  If you have info to share about the video stabilizer effect, in the meantime, it would be greatly appreciated.

                               

                              Thanks,

                              Steve

                              • 12. Re: When is it undesirable to have PE8 auto-analyze?
                                Steve C2 Level 2

                                At this point, the PE8 performance issues are probably resolved and likely related to a hardware issue.  Not the memory issue that I, at first, suspected.

                                 

                                The CPU heatsink had become loose.  I had downloaded a couple of software monitors for cpu temps to confirm the temperature problem.  After I reattached the loose heatsink mounting post, my cpu temp went way down.  The instability problems that I experienced in PE8 were also in Adobe Audition - I'm guessing that's because both programs are cpu-intensive.

                                 

                                So, at this point, let's get back to the other question - how good is the camera-shake feature?  What are it's cons?

                                 

                                Thanks,

                                Steve

                                • 13. Re: When is it undesirable to have PE8 auto-analyze?
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                  Steve,

                                   

                                  Good detective work, and thank you for reporting. Heat, or lack of heat dissipation, is a major cause of hangs, shutdowns and especially BSOD's. NLE work generates about as much heat, as anything you can do on a computer. I rely on a free utility, SpeedFan to monitor the heat in all sub-systems, and it has worked beautifully. For me, working on a laptop (poor air flow by design), in the Summer outdoors in the Arizona Desert, heat can be a big issue.

                                   

                                  As for the "camera-shake" feature, I only wish that I could help you, but have never used it.

                                   

                                  Good luck, and again, thanks for reporting the cause of the problem, plus the cure.

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                  • 14. Re: When is it undesirable to have PE8 auto-analyze?
                                    A.T. Romano Level 7

                                    Steve CS2

                                     

                                    I do not get a chance to visit here as often as I would like so while I am here I thought that I would mention a few things that I have run into with regard to video stabilization with Premiere Elements. I have had very limited experience with it...call it solid like a rock video taking or editing out anything that looked shaky or something in between. The Premiere Elements variety does a pretty good job with its smoothing and border management, and I guess you have seen the Adobe write up in Premiere Elements 8 PDF Help.

                                    http://help.adobe.com/en_US/PremiereElements/8.0/Win/Using/WS260F39E7-46A5-4609-81C9-BC19B A258860.html

                                    It is pretty straight forward and basic....too much and you can kill a pan & zoom or anything with significant motion that you really do not want to get rid of and too little, forget it.

                                     

                                    Others have suggested if you want more control (options) in the process to look at the proDad Mercalli product which incorporates the same basic principles of smoothing and management of borders generated by the video stabilization effect. You can clearly get the "more control" impression from watching the video "Confirmed by Experts-Watch This Video" in the following link

                                    http://www.prodad.de/gb/mercalli_std_details.htm

                                     

                                    I get very annoyed when someone asks a Premiere Elements question and then the responder goes on and on about how better you could do it in another product, usually at a pro level Adobe or non Adobe. I prefer to try to get the best out of Premiere Elements. So,.....

                                    (a) granted I get good results with the Premiere Elements 7 and 8 Video Stabilizers. But, right now my major problem with version 8 is its need for rendering of the Timeline in the Edit Mode to get the best possible preview of the end product. But, in version 8 is goes a step beyond needing that type of rendering for the best preview. Sometimes it is critical in order to get the Timeline Indicator to move non irratically when you press the Edit Mode Monitor Play button. Not so or to the same degree at all with Premiere Elements 7. Have you done a comparison on how long it takes to render the Timeline content of a video clip with or without rendering the Timeline? As an example, one of my video clips (AVI MPEG4 and without any effects) took about 2 to 3 minutes to render on the Timeline whereas the same clip with the Video Stabilizer Effect took about 30 minutes to render on the Timeline. This was only a 45 second clip. I am not complaining about the 30 minute time by itself, but rather the need to have to do the rendering to get any sort of idea of what was going on after applying the effect plus the 30 minute time for rendering. This type of finding was not original. It was pointed out to me by Edmund53 a user at a forum that I frequent. His and your inquires have sparked my interest in this effect, and I am more vigorously exploring its use. I am not about to go out and buy brand X. I think that I have the tool that I need in the Adobe Premiere Elements 7 or 8 Video Stabilizer. It is just a matter of ironing out the environment in which it finds itself in Premiere Elements 8.

                                     

                                    But, I need to do more in depth investigation into all this before coming to any firm conclusions. The level of System Resources impacts what we do in Premiere Elements, especially Premiere Elements 8, and I am not just talking about AVCHD editing. Many who have 64 bit systems with "loads of RAM and hard drive space" fail to recognize that Premiere Elements is only a 32 bit application running in the 32 bit compatibility mode of a 64 bit system and has all the limitations of 32 bit.

                                     

                                    ATR