15 Replies Latest reply on Jan 24, 2010 2:06 AM by Sydneydawg2006

    AV sync problems when rendering Quicktime in PE 8

    Sydneydawg2006

      I have a simple problem when rendering to Quicktime format fromPremere Elements 8: The AV sync goes out of whack.

       

      I have tried rendering:

      (a). To MPEG - output is fine.

      (b). To WMV - output is fine.

      (c). MOV - av sync errors

       

      I am assembling about five clips. The first clip plays fine. The AV sync problems starts at the second clip - the audio is a good 3 seconds or so ahead of the video.

       

      Everything is fine in the editing window.

       

      I am running in Windows 7.  To make sure it is not the player, I have played the quicktime output in Windows Media and itunes and the same problem is in both.

       

      Has anyone seen this issue?

       

      Thanks.

        • 1. Re: AV sync problems when rendering Quicktime in PE 8
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          This problem is usually related to your source video.

           

          What type of camcorder did you video come from and how did you get it into your computer? (MPEG and DVD sources are notorious for causing out of sync problems.)

          • 2. Re: AV sync problems when rendering Quicktime in PE 8
            Sydneydawg2006 Level 1

            Source video was Motion JPEG from a Panasonic Lumix camera:

            - 720P @ 24 frames per second.

             

            The source video was AV synchronised (I checked). It played correctly in

            Quicktime, Windows Media Player, and  it played correctly in the preview in

            PE 8.

             

            The rendered output for both MPEG and WMV files were synchronised fine.

             

            The only output with AV synchronisation problems was when the output was a

            MOV file.

             

            Furthermore, the move contained five clips.  The first clip played fine. AV

            synchronisation problems started in the second clip, when audio started

            about three seconds before the video.

             

            -M

            • 3. Re: AV sync problems when rendering Quicktime in PE 8
              Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

              MJPEG-AVI will usually cause the problems you describe -- although the out of sync problem is often not evident until you output the video file or DVD from it (as you describe)!

               

              The best solution is to use Windows MovieMaker to convert the MJPEG to a DV-AVI, per the FAQs to the right of this forum.

              http://forums.adobe.com/thread/415317?tstart=0

              • 4. Re: AV sync problems when rendering Quicktime in PE 8
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                There are two very good MJPEG CODEC's, MainConcept's and Morgan's. If you do not have either of those, you might want to explore the trial versions, to see if things improve. Both seem to running about neck-in-neck for which works best for users.

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: AV sync problems when rendering Quicktime in PE 8
                  Sydneydawg2006 Level 1

                  Dear Steve,

                   

                  I wasn't particularly clear in my statement of the problem.  I read through

                  your solution, and I am actually pretty much doing what is described.

                   

                  I transcode all MJPEG files to MPEG-2 before editing.

                   

                  Adobe Premiere is then used to edit the MPEG-2 files, not the MJPEG files.

                   

                  It is the editing and export of MPEG-2 to H.264 which is the problem.

                   

                  I assume that Adobe Premiere is supposed to handle MPEG-2 as inputs?

                  • 6. Re: AV sync problems when rendering Quicktime in PE 8
                    Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                    You should be converting your files to DV-AVIs. Not MPEGs.

                     

                    That should solve your problem.

                    • 7. Re: AV sync problems when rendering Quicktime in PE 8
                      Sydneydawg2006 Level 1

                      My files are all high def at 1280x720P @ 24 frames per second.  I do not

                      want to downsample to PAL resolution nor do I want to convert to 25 frames

                      per second and undergo all of the frame rate conversions.

                       

                      Can you suggest a way to save to HDV-AVI so that I can maintain the output

                      at high definition?

                       

                      This option does not seem to be available on the list.

                       

                      -M

                      • 8. Re: AV sync problems when rendering Quicktime in PE 8
                        nealeh Level 5

                        You set the format when you first start a project. To see this use File> New and select 'Change Settings' in the initial dialog box. This takes you to the setup dialog where you select a project preset for AVCHD, Hard Disk, or HDV.

                         

                        setup.jpg

                         

                        Cheers,
                        --
                        Neale
                        Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                        • 9. Re: AV sync problems when rendering Quicktime in PE 8
                          Sydneydawg2006 Level 1

                          Hi Guys,

                           

                          I am most appreciative of the responses to date, but, unfortunately, I am still trying to sort this out.

                           

                          I would like to stay in HDV (not DV).  Thus, I cannot follow Steve Grisetti's advice to export as DV-AVi.

                           

                          I stepped through the previous respondents advice, but I already had my project settings correct (HDV @ 720P).

                           

                          I would like to now export my video in HDV-AVi, so that I can edit them later, but I am unable to figure out how to achieve this.

                           

                          Am I mistaken, or is there no way to export files in HDV-AVI format for later editing?  I must be missing something because I would assume that this would be a standard export format.

                          • 10. Re: AV sync problems when rendering Quicktime in PE 8
                            Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                            I'm sorry, Sydney. I'm really getting confused here. We're talking about too many formats at once.

                             

                            How about:

                             

                            1) Deciding on the format you want to work in. Is your goal to produce a hi-def BluRay disc? If so, it pays to stay in hi-def. If not, there's no value to keeping or converting your files to hi-def video.

                             

                            2) What video formats are you trying to combine? It sounds like you've got at least two. Hunt often recommends a free download called G-Spot, which will tell you which codecs and resolutions are being used in your formats. If you can list each video source, its format, resolution and codec, we can tell you how to convert them so that they're all the same, optimized format.

                             

                            Remember, the goal here is to get all this video into exactly the same format before you combine it into a project -- and that project should be the ideal format for whatever it is you ultimately plan to output.

                            • 11. Re: AV sync problems when rendering Quicktime in PE 8
                              Sydneydawg2006 Level 1

                              Hi Steve,

                               

                              Sorry for the confusion. It a sensible suggestion to identify the input formats and output formats and I would most appreciate your inputs to this issue because I admit that I am really struggling here to get a workflow going.

                               

                              Input  formats:

                              1. MJPEG 1280x720P at 24 frames per second (from a Panasonic Lumix Camera)

                              2. WMV 1280x720P at 24 frames per second from output of other programs (which only support wmv output at High def output)

                              3. MPEG2 1280x720P at 24 frames per second (and sometimes 25 frames per second) from other sources

                               

                              Target output formats are:

                              1. Blu-Ray

                              2. MP4 container format @ 1280x720P for playing on my Apple TV

                              3. DVD  (ordinary plain PAL DVD at 720x576P at 25 frames per second)

                               

                              My goal is have Pre Elements 8 Project settings in High Def and then to simply target all three outputs from one project so that I do not have to redo all of the projects with different project settings.

                               

                              Workflow is in two stages:

                               

                              Step 1 is to create one project for each Chapter and save to disk:  The inputs are from all three input formats that I identified above (High Def - MJPEG, WMV, and MPEG2). I would like to edit, mix the audio, and then save each chapter to disk. The format in which I save this is preferably some kind of high def format that can be edited easily at a later time.

                               

                              Step 2 is to create the Project that is used to assemble each chapter for final output: This is the project where I put in Chapter marks, create menus, etc.  The target outputs from this chapter are  Blu Ray (high def), AppleTV (high def), and PAL DVD (Standard def).

                               

                              In all cases, I set up my Project Settings as HDV-AVI for internal rendering because all inputs are high def and most target outputs are high def.

                               

                              Issues that I am dealing with:

                              1. I cannot figure out the best export format to go from Step 1 to Step 2.  HDV-AVI doesn't seem to be available as an export format. Basically, I am looking for an export format that puts the least strain on resources when they are read in for Step 2 and retains the highest quality.

                              2. Most of my inputs are 24 frames per second but the internal rendering for Pre Elements 8 seems to be 25 frames per second.  Frame rate conversion can be quite tricky and can put significant strain on resources, but it is not clear if this is straining Pre Elements 8 or not. It does seem to be. I am happy to convert my files into a format that puts the least strain on Pre Elements 8 internal rendering and yet produces the best output.

                               

                              Note: If you ask - why do I do this in two steps?  It is because I am always putting a strain on system resources when operating in high def. Unless I am careful, I get a message that Pre Element is "low on resources" followed by a crash shortly thereafter.  I have Win7 32 bit, 4 GB RAM, no other programs running, all drivers updated with the most recent version (yes - even the NVIDIA driver) so there really isn't anything else that I can do in this area.

                               

                              So I am looking for suggestions in the following areas:

                              1. An alternative workflow that produces the three high def outputs with the three high def inputs defined above that doesn't cause Pre Elements to continually go low on resources and crash.

                                    OR

                              2. A recommendation for a high def format that puts minimal strain on Pre Element resources?

                               

                              Thanks!

                              • 12. Re: AV sync problems when rendering Quicktime in PE 8
                                Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                                If you are going to use a 24p setting for your videos, I'm not sure I can help you. Premiere Elements doesn't support 24p -- just the standard formats of PAL and NTSC.

                                 

                                It sounds like you're trying to hybrid your project using 25 fps -- but I'm not sure that will work. There is a pretty big difference between 25 fps and 24p.

                                 

                                Maybe someone else will be able to make some suggestions for you. IMHO, I think you're trying to push this program beyond what it's capable of. Especially since you're using such a high end camcorder and you're mixing a variety of formats with hopes of outputting at a variety of resolutions, a move to Premier Pro or even Final Cut/Mac might be a wise decision.

                                • 13. Re: AV sync problems when rendering Quicktime in PE 8
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                  I also agree that PrPro would be a better tool for such Projects. One of its biggest features is that it can use different settings for each Sequence in a single Project and can work with 24p footage too.

                                   

                                  For the multiple output, the included Encore will be beneficial, as will the AME (Adobe Media Encoder), that will allow one to set several output settings for a Project, and then do it in a batch output process.

                                   

                                  I'd definitely not attempt this in PrE.

                                   

                                  Good luck,

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                  • 14. Re: AV sync problems when rendering Quicktime in PE 8
                                    Sydneydawg2006 Level 1

                                    Hi Everyone,

                                     

                                    I am more than willing to transcode all of my video into a single format  at 25 fps that Premiere Elements 8 can handle and edit with no problems.  I am happy to use an external program to change the frame rate to 25 fps. I am happy to to anything to transcode, transrate, etc all of my source files so that they are in a single format that Premiere Elements 8 can handle.

                                     

                                    My only requirement is that it be HD (1280x720P).

                                     

                                    My question really boils down to this:  What is an appropriate input HD format that Premiere Elements 8 can edit without crashing?

                                    • 15. Re: AV sync problems when rendering Quicktime in PE 8
                                      Sydneydawg2006 Level 1

                                      OK - after some investigation, I think that I have found the answer to my question:

                                       

                                      First, some searching on Wikipedia unearthed that HDV is simply MPEG-2 running at a particular profile which, as far as i can tell, just happens to be the default profile of the MPEG-2 MainConcept encoder in Premiere Elements 8 for High Definition at 720P.  Thus, unless I am mistaken, the internal HDV-AVI format is simply MPEG-2.

                                       

                                      I transcoded all of my content to MPEG-2, 1280x720P, 25 frames per second in PRE 8.

                                       

                                      When a read the content back into PRE 8 to edit - voila - no background rendering needed. Everything just played right away, no blowout of system resources, etc.

                                       

                                      I was then able to happily edit and create my final output.

                                       

                                      One limitation:  I still discovered that trying to export as H.264 (Quicktime output) caused resources to blow out and experienced the usual crash.

                                       

                                      Thus, the workflow is to export as MPEG-2, 1280x720P, 25 frames per second and then use Handbrake to transcode over to H.264 for my Apple TV.

                                       

                                      Whew!


                                      Probably all of this is addressed somewhere in the forum...