9 Replies Latest reply on Apr 1, 2010 7:22 PM by Ansury

    what do you think about the html5?


      I've been seeing developers philosophizing about the future, and I want to know what do you think about the brand new html5?


      mainly because the html5 can take out of the market technology ( flex ).


      thanks for the opinion!!!



        • 1. Re: what do you think about the html5?
          pauland Level 4

          The future is always so much better than the present.


          Browsers have always been so good at being compatible.


          What will be will be.

          • 2. Re: what do you think about the html5?
            rickcr Level 1

            I've been wondering a lot about this myself recently since we're embarking on our first flex3 project here at work. There are few posts about html5 and flash here http://bexhuff.com/2009/06/html-5-versus-flash-flex


            The one thing I find surprising, though, is this idea that coding using whatever flavor of javascript framework you like (ExtJS, Dojo, etc.) will be as easy to work with when coding truly rich applications compared to what you can do with Flex/ActionScript. If your only purpose in using Flex is to make a pretty looking form than sure I think choosing flex is overkill and probably not the right choice, but if you really plan on building a real rich "application," then so far, it seems that Flex/AS is a great choice.


            Most of the arguments for html5 revolve around embeded video or canvas. That's all nice but people often use Flex for 'real' rich UIs.


            I've coded extensively with ExtJS and JQuery and to duplicate what you can do with a real rich interface technology like Flex is NO WAY as easy, and just as important it's no way as easy to maintain for a real rich interface. Just the very fact that you have a stateful application when coding in Flex makes a WORLD of difference in how easy things become. The hacks needed to deal with http's stateless protocol make things extremely difficult when you start coding a complicate rich UI.


            The only thing that worries me is the whole Apple and Adobe Flash issue. If they don't resolve getting flash running on iphone/ipad devices, it will not be a good thing  (both sides seem to blame the other for it not taking place. I'm a HUGE mac fan and use an iPhone but I'll side with Adobe - Jobs probably hates flash as much as he hates Java and anything besides Objective C.)

            • 3. Re: what do you think about the html5?
              Gregory Lafrance Level 6

              From what I've read, HTML 5 will not be fully implemented until 2022.


              Even though a growing subset of HTML is available and will be more available in the future, it still just seems to be a replacement for the current AJAX environment, partial and/or incomplete, and hackish.


              By 2022, I would think that Flex would have evolved into something even HTML 5 can't touch.


              Regarding Apple and Adobe, Flash will be on the iPhone/iPad, etc. eventually. Mark my words, in time, Steve Jobs won't be able to prevent it.

              • 4. Re: what do you think about the html5?

                Regarding Apple and Adobe, Flash will be on the iPhone/iPad, etc. eventually. Mark my words, in time, Steve Jobs won't be able to prevent it.

                I'm just waiting for that moment (but I think will be at least a year from now) ...

                • 5. Re: what do you think about the html5?
                  Ansury Level 3

                  Won't be implemented fully until 2022!    Thank you for this information, I must go and verify that so I can use this as a nail in the Google Web Toolkit coffin with a Google fanboy I know.    Do you have a link or anything Greg?



                  The future is always so much better than the present.


                  Browsers have always been so good at being compatible. (dripping with extreme sarcasm)


                  What will be will be.


                  Basically how I feel.  (emphasis mine)  HTML5 sounds like "The Solution To Fix It All" all over again.  Anyone with experience in IT has heard it all before.  Don't get me started on how Ajax is a miserable hack that will go down in history as yet another one of the big IT screwups which wasted massive time and resources that could have been put to better use.


                  When will they start to taste the poison in the Ajax kool aid... (or Google/Apple kool aid for that matter, seems some people feel Google can make no mistakes..)?

                  • 6. Re: what do you think about the html5?
                    AttaBoy2 Level 3

                    The 2022 reference can be found under completion in this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5

                    • 7. Re: what do you think about the html5?
                      Ansury Level 3

                      Yep this is most definitely not just a rumor, I've found plenty of sources talking about this.


                      Here's someone's take on HTML5, a non-Adobe perspective, from a Silverlight developer.  I thought this would be interesting to mention.  Not sure I agree 100% with everything said (IE may not be most used browser and I don't believe in DRM), but it's an interesting read anyway:



                      • Yes, you can do a LOT of stuff with HTML5 + JS that Silverlight is good for. But HTML5 will only reach Candidate Recommendation status in 2012 - if Silverlight keeps the current pace, it will be at V7 by then.
                      • HTML5 will only get you approximately what Silverlight had at V1.0. A Canvas element, some video playback capabilites, and a Javascript programming model. Can you imagine how further advanced Silverlight 4 is at the moment?
                      • Actually, scratch that - the video quality and availability of HTML5 is a lot worse than what Silverlight has to offer. There is no DRM, no Smooth Streaming, not even full screen! No GPU acceleration either. Even the codec HTML5 has to support is not standardized! This results in Firefox 3.6 having only Theora decoder, and Youtube experimenting with HTML in H.264 (on the same day FF3.6 launched), only playable in approx. 4-5% of the world's browsers.
                      • Internet Explorer is still the most widely used browser on the web, and does not have HTML5. Currently, there are more Silverlight capable browsers browsing the web than HTML5 compatible ones. I don't think that in the next 3 years you will be able to create an HTML5 app and hope that at least 50% of the world's population can view it without switching browsers. (and remember: installing a plugin is a lot less hassle than switching to a new browser!)
                      • HTML5 will not be truly cross-browser standard for quite a long time, if ever. There are too many things that the browser developer can do as they wish - just think about the aforementioned video codec issue. There are too many little differences in each browser's Javascript implementation to make it really portable.
                      • The developer story: nothing in the HTML + JS world comes close to the awesome Visual Studio and Expression Blend tools. Javascript is cool for small apps, but cannot hold a candle to C# when it comes to serious development. Fighting with browser and OS incompatilities takes up a huge amount of time for any HTML website or web app - with Silverlight you don't have this.
                      • Just compare what the best HTML / Ajax company in the world (Google) did with maps, and what MS did to see the difference. Go tohttp://maps.google.com/ (watch out - the Streetview part is in Flash, not Ajax), and compare it to http://www.bing.com/maps/explore/. That is the difference I am talking about.


                      Of course he means (or should have meant) Flex/Flash rather than just Flash.  As for the GWT and other AJAX fanboys who I guess think browser compatibility problems are going to be a thing of the past (or won't be a drag on corporate bottom lines - haha), it makes you wonder what other wild fantasies they're envisioning for the future.  Next they'll come and tell us XML-based protocols are going to be as fast as AMF...

                      • 8. Re: what do you think about the html5?
                        Detroit Doug

                        ABC, NBC, and CBS (not Fox - yet) have announced that they are going to re-encode their programming using HTML5 for web delivery JUST for the iPad!  Oh, come on!  Steve Jobs and the other "monopolists" out there need to realize that the system in place with Flash video on established sites like Hulu and YouTube is working well for people.


                        Why bow to Apple's petulant cry-baby selfishness?  Leave them out there in the wilderness, while the early adopters of the iPad inundate them with complaints that the only video they can watch on their iPad comes from Apple's own sites.  Their beloved YouTube, Hulu, network web sites and even corporate videos from thousands of sites will be unavailable to them on this expensive new toy.


                        Apple ought to just simplify life for everyone and license the Flash plugin technology now.  Then they can keep the iPad prices consistent - instead of lowering the iPad's price from $499 to $199 six months from now, as they undoubtedly will.  We have to stop giving in to the kind of selfish greed that has contributed to our world-wide recession - let's work together, Apple! 

                        • 9. Re: what do you think about the html5?
                          Ansury Level 3

                          Apple has apparently decided that to follow in Microsoft's footsteps for growth: shady, anti-competitive practices and back room deals intended to undermine and subvert their intended target.


                          If this is simply a childish reaction to the perceived (possibly true?) inferiority of Flash support on Mac, Apple and Jobs need to realize something important; if Macs are a second class citizen for major software like Flash (and... a ton of other applications, not to mention games!), it's because their market share sucks.  If "Apple" wants to get more attention from developers of software, they'll have to stop marketing to IT hippies or whatever their target market is, and start getting into the corporate world or other major markets.  Stop with the stupid marketing hype ads (you don't have the money to waste like Google does) and the major risky investments like iTampons, and start making your hardware and platform more attractive to existing (PC) customers.  (I know it's boring Stevey, but "work" and getting real productive tasks done is where the money is--as it should be.)


                          Basically Jobs seems to be complaining about being treated as if Mac is of secondary importance to PCs... problem being, the market demonstrates to developers that Mac really should be of secondary importance--if you want to be a successful software development shop.


                          But maybe I'm being too harsh.