22 Replies Latest reply on Feb 13, 2010 8:07 AM by cayblood

    CS4 randomly hangs for many minutes at a time

    cayblood Level 1

      I've been doing a number of editing jobs on CS4 for a while now. Started out on a mac but happened to have a pretty decent Windows 7 system on hand so I decided to use that. Here are the specs:

       

      Windows 7 (64-bit)

      Intel quad-core i7

      6 GB RAM

      CS4 installed on 1TB C drive

      Project files and scratch disk on striped volume consisting of 3 500GB SATA drives

       

      This setup was performing spendidly on the first few projects I did, but seems to be bogging down as I work on more projects, even though the available disk space doesn't seemed to have changed much. It seems to bog down more on large projects.

       

      What I'm noticing is that as I browse source files and try to set in/out points etc., CS4 will play for a little while and then hang for many minutes at a stretch. It will eventually come back and be usable for a short while but then hang again.

       

      The strange thing is that when it is hung, the system resource monitor shows that the CS4 process is not responding, but it shows very low CPU usage on all cores and no surge in memory usage. Disk I/O also remains relatively low, leaving me at a loss to explain the hangs. I experienced something very similar on CS4 for mac when dealing with these same projects.

       

      The projects have a lot of DV footage split into 2.6GB chunks that I am concatenating together. They also have some HD MJPEG AVIs that I captured using a Black Magic Intensity Pro card.

       

      I should also add that when I finally do get the projects finished and start rendering them, the rendering is very fast overall, which confirms my theory that my machine's performance is more than adequate and these hangs are due to bugs and I/O bottlenecks in CS4 itself.

       

      Needless to say, this is very frustrating. I have less of a problem if a program needs to do something and explains to me why I need to wait while it does it, but I don't like my programs to go away for hours without telling me where they're going.

       

      Adobe people, if you're listening, please respond to this. I have seen a number of other complaints about similar issues. At least let us know if you're aware of these issues and what you are doing about it.

       

      Thanks,

      Carl

        • 1. Re: CS4 randomly hangs for many minutes at a time
          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          >Adobe people, if you're listening,

           

          Adobe rarely responds to these USER TO USER forums

           

          Since this is a USER TO USER forum, not Adobe support, and as the
          only way another user could reply is if they had that same problem
          and also had a solution, you may need to contact Adobe for help, or
          to report problems or ask for new features directly at Adobe, click
          http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform - do be
          sure to include all information, so they may reproduce the problem

          • 2. Re: CS4 randomly hangs for many minutes at a time
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            Carl,

             

            Just a guess here. One thing that can cause behavior, exactly as you describe is the Conforming process. The scenario would be: you browse for an Asset, and then Import it. At this point, the system would become unresponsive, or sluggish. The reason is that it is busy Conforming the Audio and writing the PEK (Waveform Display) files. There is a little progress bar with a notation in the lower-right of the GUI. The blue progress bar will move through a little window. The trick is to wait until the Conforming has completed. The length of time to Conform will depend on the file type, Audio type, Duration, possibly where the file is located and the processing power available for the computer. A DV-AVI with PCM/WAV 48KHz 16-bit Audio will probably Conform before you can get to the next step in your operation, and you might not even see the progress bar. An MPEG w/ muxed Audio, especially if it has MPEG Audio will take longer for the same Duration. If you have something like WMV w/ WMA Audio, it could take quite some time. Depending on many issues with the computer, one might still be able to work during the Conforming, but on many machines, things just seem to grind to a halt, until Conforming is completed. Many variables at play. Regardless, the trick is to just have a sip of coffee (decaf preferably) and let that blue progress bar complete - then go to the next operation.

             

            Now, if your files are completing Conforming and you STILL have a hang/slowdown, something else is afoot.

             

            Just thinking,

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: CS4 randomly hangs for many minutes at a time
              cayblood Level 1

              John, if Adobe isn't monitoring this forum then they suck. I'm not interested in opening a support ticket for this because I highly doubt they can take any reasonably short measures to fix it. I mostly am doing this to express to Adobe that their software leaves much to be desired so that they can fix this in future versions. The software should never leave you wondering what is happening in an unresponsive state. If it is doing a lengthy operation then it should use a modal progress bar.

              • 4. Re: CS4 randomly hangs for many minutes at a time
                cayblood Level 1

                Thanks for your response Bill. The files are already totally conformed--at least, the progress bar that says generating peak files already ran a long time ago. Yet when I scrub the DV files, they get bogged down and seem like they don't know how to skip over data and must read the entire file before relinquishing control back to the app.

                • 5. Re: CS4 randomly hangs for many minutes at a time
                  Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                  I'm not interested in opening a support ticket for this because I highly doubt they can take any reasonably short measures to fix it. I mostly am doing this to express to Adobe that their software leaves much to be desired so that they can fix this in future versions

                  The only sure way for your voice to be heard is to fill out the form here:

                   

                  Adobe - Feature Request/Bug Report Form

                   

                  -Jeff

                  • 6. Re: CS4 randomly hangs for many minutes at a time
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    Dang, I thought that I might have a quick and easy explanation for the behavior.

                     

                    I'll go back to the OP, but I seem to recall that some of the Assets were MJPEG (maybe I am confusing threads), and will check to see what the specs. of the other Assets are. If that info was not already posted, can you please provide that. Some Assets, like AVCHD can be horrible resource hogs, even if they have Imported perfectly.

                     

                    Good luck, and thanks for eliminating the Conforming operation from the mix.

                     

                    Hunt

                     

                    [Edit] OK, the Assets are just a mix of DV-AVI Type II's (right?), and the BM Captured MJPEG's. I assume that you are running the BM MJPEG CODEC. Does this behavior happen when there are no BM MJPEG's involved, or do they seem to bring the system to a crawl?

                    • 7. Re: CS4 randomly hangs for many minutes at a time
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      Going back to the "Adobe" part of the post, and to expound on Jeff's comments:

                       

                      We're blessed in this forum, as we do have a couple of Adobe employees, who do participate, as time permits. They're very knowledgeable about the programs, and do offer us some "under the hood" info, plus a few "peeks" at upcoming features, etc. However, I do not believe that any are here as part of their jobs, their official capacities - only because they want to help out. What this means is that Jeff's suggestion IS the way to get Adobe's attention. I know that they take the Feature Requests and Bug Reports very seriously, though their work on these might not be readily apparent to the users. The employees, who do participate, might mention something around the cafeteria, but I doubt that they are in a department to directly address issues, while the Bug Reports will go to the lab, to be replicated and worked on. Those reports are the perfect conduit to the right folk at Adobe - the testing labs, who will then file reports to development teams.

                       

                      Now, in a perfect world, it might be nice to have one of those lab techs "assigned" to the forum for each Adobe product, but then much of their time would likely be spent trying to decipher our "inside jokes," or reading replies along the lines of "trying to edit DivX material on a 1.6GHz computer with a 40MB HDD and 512MB RAM is never going to work... " If such a tech IS assigned to us, they have managed to remain sub-rosa, and none of us has "blown their cover."

                       

                      Good luck with the troubleshooting, and please let us know about the BM MJPEG files - just in case, says Hunt, grasping at straws.

                      • 8. Re: CS4 randomly hangs for many minutes at a time
                        cayblood Level 1

                        Thanks Bill. I'm actually not using the BM MJPEG codec because this machine was not used to capture the videos--it's only being used to edit them, and it does not have an intensity pro inside of it. I messed around with a lot of different codecs and finally got something working, but I'm not sure I can really tell which one is being used. I think it's the MainConcept one but I'm not sure.

                         

                        As far as Adobe goes, if they are going to put up a forum, in my opinion, they should be actively monitoring it and responding to issues. Otherwise it becomes more of a liability than an asset and merely serves to call attention to their own obliviousness. This is just an aside from me, not really pertinent to the issue at hand. I don't really have enough information to provide a detailed reproduceable bug report. But in general, I've noticed that certain problems are complained about in many different places and Adobe hasn't seemed to care much about them for a long time now. Companies I know who really care about their customers are vigilantly tracking keywords all over the web to make sure that their customers are happy and to be as responsive as possible.

                        • 9. Re: CS4 randomly hangs for many minutes at a time
                          Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                          I don't really have enough information to provide a detailed reproduceable bug report.

                          Give 'em what you got anyway.  Some is better than none.

                           

                          -Jeff

                          • 10. Re: CS4 randomly hangs for many minutes at a time
                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                            Well, any progress is good, eh? For MJPEG's, most of us will recommend either the MainConcept, or the Morgan. I wonder how the BM MJPEG CODE's would work, without the card - just thinking there? BTW - more users like the MainConcept by a few.

                             

                            As far as Adobe goes, if they are going to put up a forum, in my opinion, they should be actively monitoring it and responding to issues. Otherwise it becomes more of a liability than an asset and merely serves to call attention to their own obliviousness.

                             

                            You make a good point, but I feel that Adobe sees these as an asset in that the best T/S work is done by other users. I always suggest that anyone having any issue with an Adobe product, stop by the fora first. Most never need to go any farther. For tons of free T/S, Adobe pays for the servers and the administration of the fora.

                             

                            Still, and this is between just you and me, I'd love to hear that there are some "monitors," who do read. As I mentioned, this forum is blessed to have the few Adobe employees, that we do. Photoshop has Chris Cox, one of the developers of PS. Even in his role, however, I believe that he only offers solutions and explanations, and does not "take notes." One exception was when he was compiling a list of "problem fonts" for PS, and asked for contributions with full details on what problems they caused.

                             

                            When a new upgrade, or an update is issued, we do see more Adobe representation here. It usually starts with a post that something is coming out, and as many details, as are possible to divulge, are given. As we draw closer to the release date, more details are often forthcoming. This presence usually stays until after the release, and we get to comment from the trenches, how the update/upgrade works. Then, I know that notes are being taken. After a bit, that presence fades (as far as we can tell, but who knows?). Sometimes I wonder about those shadows on the wall in the Video Lounge... oh wait, those are just grease stains from the yoodles.

                             

                            Good luck on your Project, and please keep us updated. My brain just keeps coming back to the MJPEG's, but they probably are not part of the issue.

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 11. Re: CS4 randomly hangs for many minutes at a time
                              cayblood Level 1

                              Yes, I had thought of installing the BM setup just to get the codec, but frankly I find it very difficult to sort through the maze of directshow filters and change which ones are being used. The Gspot and DSFMgr tools don't seem to work very well and it always seems like such a mess. I should have taken a snapshot of this machine before I started installing stuff so I could fall back to a pristine state.

                               

                              I think that this problem is directshow related somehow, and that my scrubbing is somehow causing some queue to fill up that must be drained before CS4 comes back from its trance. But I'm not exactly sure. I do see some disk I/O in the resource monitor on the source files in question when it's hung--I even see I/O for files that I viewed a few minutes earlier, as if it's taking a really long time to read the file, but as I said, the I/O is not very fast and the CPU is hardly being used.

                               

                              As far as the forum is concerned, I think Adobe is missing an opportunity. I absolutely agree that forums are a great way to let users answer other users' problems, but it shouldn't stop there. This is related to the NRKbeta doctrine. The only way to maintain control of one's content (or platform, products, services etc.) is to be the best provider of them. If the company can't do this, then pseudo-responsiveness in the form of user forums and other communications platforms will only call more attention to the inadequacy. I understand what you're saying about how we make the best with what we have, but I'm just expressing an opinion of how Adobe is missing an opportunity.

                               

                              Regardless, I certainly appreciate the time that you guys have taken to try to help me here.

                              • 12. Re: CS4 randomly hangs for many minutes at a time
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                With the RAID, I wouldn't expect much of a bottleneck with I/O. How is it provided, MoBo, software or a controller card?

                                 

                                I do hear you with CODEC's. I am a firm believer on only what I need, when I need it and go to the source and not some free CODEC site.

                                 

                                Not sure about the display caches, etc., but there could be something to that. Just curious: how is your Timeline Thumbnail Display set? If it's Show All Frames, can you drop that to None - Just File Name (or similar syntax), and test? Again, just thinking.

                                 

                                I do agree about using the fora. It could provide a lot of useful feedback, say a "gamma test." It might be happening that way, and we just do not know it. Were I the product manager, I'd have an employee with knowledge of the product reading everything (well, except my inane comments on the Video Lounge). It would be good for marketing to see some of those reports too. Still, and especially with the recent Adobe layoffs, it just might not happen.

                                 

                                Along those lines, my wife runs a bunch of hospitals. She has a clipping service that pours though media from around the globe. First, she's monitoring the press on her hospitals, but also gets reports on her competition in this market. Last, they pull articles on various healthcare delivery schemes from all over, in hopes of finding some fresh ideas, or unique solutions to her problems. From the latter, she's made contact with other hospitals around the world to share ideas, and to discuss their solutions and the metrics used to measure their success. Lot of good ideas out there. Now, I do not expect to see Adobe sit down with AVID and talk about NLE programs, but certainly the #1 and #2 uses could be beneficial.

                                 

                                I'd like to think that it is happening, but we do not realize it. When a poor Adobe employee HAS shown up, they usually get inundated with all sorts of complaints and some not very nice. Next come the pleas for all sorts of secrets and even individual help. Soon, we don't see them again. I can almost imagine the discussion in San Jose, "boss, I don't care how much you pay me, or if you fire me, but I am not going back into that snakepit you call the Premiere forum... "

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: CS4 randomly hangs for many minutes at a time
                                  MarkWeiss Level 1

                                  I had similar problems with CS4, only the cycle time was faster.. it would play for four seconds, then freeze for about ten, then continue playing from the timeline. Also, launching was slow--about 3-1/2 minutes on a quad core with XP and 4GB RAM.

                                  I eventually had to drop CS4 and go back to CS3, which works great.

                                  • 14. Re: CS4 randomly hangs for many minutes at a time
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    Mark,

                                     

                                    It has been interesting reading, since the release of CS4. For many, the feeling was that CS4 was much slower than CS3 in many operations. OK, one program requires more horsepower, or has been changed to do things differently - it happens. However, there are as many, or probably more, who observe CS4 being quicker than CS3 for most operations.

                                     

                                    Obviously, there are so many variables: system, Project, Assets, Effects, etc., but there seem to be two, well-defined camps on these versions. We're lucky to have Bill Gerhke's Benchmark program, test material and spreadsheet to compare systems, with a constant, but I have not seen a direct comparison between CS3 and CS4 with as many constants, as are possible. Maybe such exists, but I have yet to run across it.

                                     

                                    In the end, we're left with the impressions of the users. One camp gets better results from CS3, while the other finds CS4 to be quicker. Guess the best advice would be to go with whichever works best for a particular user, on their system, with their Projects and Assets.

                                     

                                    Good luck,

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: CS4 randomly hangs for many minutes at a time
                                      MarkWeiss Level 1

                                      Such a widely-varied experience would conclude two things for me:

                                       

                                      1. That certain combinations of hardware and CS4 don't get along (ie., Gigabyte motherboards with nVidia graphics cards).

                                       

                                      2. That Adobe did not test CS4 on a wide enough variety of hardware to adequately debug issues that might be quite commonplace in fact.

                                       

                                      The downside is that the users become unwitting beta testers. This costs time and money when we're talking about a production enviroment, as employees have to be trained, only to have the department ditch the version upgrade soonafter.

                                       

                                      Perhaps Adobe might be able to better garantee performance by listing on the specs the hardware brand, model and revision numbers of motherboards, GPUs and disc drives, so that potential users can make hardware purchase decisions that will ensure a productive experience.

                                      • 16. Re: CS4 randomly hangs for many minutes at a time
                                        cayblood Level 1

                                        I'm not sure what happened, but when I came back to my computer this morning I noticed that it had rebooted after installing an update. I'm not sure what this update was, but it seems like this problem is not nearly as bad as it was before. I still need to do more projects before I can be sure, but so far it seems a lot snappier. I wonder if this was OS-related and some MS update has fixed something.

                                        • 17. Re: CS4 randomly hangs for many minutes at a time
                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                          Well, it could be. OS updates can do a lot of things. Some will speed things up, and some just plug holes in security. A good many will render one's video and audio driver obsolete, and as PrPro works much more closely with both of these, than simple players and some other programs, one assumes that all is OK on that court, when a new driver for each is required. With every OS update, the first two things that I check are the nVidia and Realtek sites for new drivers.

                                           

                                          When troubleshooting, System is usually the #1 thing to explore, with Assets and Project/Sequences next.

                                           

                                          Here's to your good luck, and hopefully all will be perfect. Do check those drivers though.

                                           

                                          Hunt

                                          • 18. Re: CS4 randomly hangs for many minutes at a time
                                            sync2rhythm Level 1

                                            Very similar set-up as the OP (Dell T3500) and after a Fresh Install of Windows 7 Ultimate 64Bit & Master Collection CS4... I too am experiencing these random hangs for maaaany minutes at a time.

                                             

                                            Exxxtremely Frustrating to say the least.

                                            ProMAX is going to do some Tests on it (same as they would a custom build) to try and see where/what the problem is.

                                            I'll post any relevant info.

                                             

                                            If you find a fix... please post it.

                                            • 19. Re: CS4 randomly hangs for many minutes at a time
                                              cayblood Level 1

                                              The situation got better after an OS update but it's still there. The delays just seem a little shorter.

                                              • 20. Re: CS4 randomly hangs for many minutes at a time
                                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                Both to you and the OP:

                                                 

                                                Run the http://ppbm4.com benchmark and submit the results to Bill (and if you like to me by private mail) and you will know where your system stands in comparison to others. It will show where your system can be improved.

                                                • 21. Re: CS4 randomly hangs for many minutes at a time
                                                  cayblood Level 1

                                                  Sorry but the instructions on that just seemed way too complicated for me. I may have time to get around it. In the mean time I've been working 80 hrs a week just trying to get this job done, albeit 2 months late.

                                                  • 22. Re: CS4 randomly hangs for many minutes at a time
                                                    cayblood Level 1

                                                    I should add that my machine is a Dell T1500, just in case there is some common component in Dells that is causing this problem.