28 Replies Latest reply on Feb 11, 2010 5:09 AM by Fighting Sticks

    cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS

    Fighting Sticks Level 2

      Hi guys,

      I'm an editor from Australia.  I use Adobe products.  Recently I have worked on a project with CS3 Premiere Pro (CS3 Production Premium).  I upgraded to CS4 Production Premium to take advantage of the new 3D modelling toolsets not available in CS3.  Prior to purchse I rang Adobe Technical Support and was informed that I would be able to open and use my sc3 project in cs4.  The website also indicates that cs3 is compatible for the cs4 upgrade.  Based on this I purchased the cs4 upgrade to discover that in fact I am unable to recover my cs3 project in cs4, contrary to the advise I was given by Adobe.  Granted I can open my cs3 file but the timing of the clip sequences are out, rendering the project untenable.  I have taken these concerns and complained to Adobe, I await their response.  I  purchased this product based upon the information provided to me by Adobe.  They assured me their product could do something which it can not:- allow me to open my cs3 project for editing in cs4, which it can not.

       

      This forum post is a component of due process associated with my complaint to my state's office of fair trading.  Adobe indicated it could do something, I purchased the product and found it can not.  I hope that Adobe may assist me to correct my 'out of sequence errors' as if it can not I believe I've been dupped into purchasing a product that doesn't do  what Adobe told me it would.  My state's office of fair trading will examine my complaint with zeal.  I wonder if there are many other users in the same boat.  If you have purchased cs4, given Adobe's assurances of compatibility and found you can not salvage your cs3 projects in cs4 then please include your experience at this discussion.  I'm certain both Adobe and the Office of Fair trading are both interested to discover how many people have purchased the cs4 upgrade for this reason to find it doesn't work.

       

      On another recent post related to this issue, found here:-

      http://forums.adobe.com/thread/573803?tstart=0

      Adobe Employee 'dradeke' stated - we have identified some strange behavior when importing large CS3 projects into CS4.

      I don't consider my 10 minute project as large.  I bought a product being told it would do something it doesn't.  I want Adobe to assist me achieve what they said the product could do OR tell people they can't open cs3 projects in cs4.  I really hope my state's office of fair trading stomps on your head adobe!, you'll be hearing from us.

      Sincerely,

      Jarrod.

        • 1. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
          Matt Petersen Level 3

          Was the behaviour evident when you installed the trial version of CS4?

           

          Do you have anything "non-native" in your CS3 install? plugins etc?

           

          Personally I think you're being a bit optomistic with your claim. "Examine my complaint with zeal"??? Have you dealt with the Public Service before??  ;-)

           

          MP

          • 2. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
            Fighting Sticks Level 2

            I purchased the product after Technical support indicated the upgrade would achieve the task I was asking of it.  I did not download the trial version.  I'm totally native.  I've many years of public service experience & personally love going after big corporations however this instance will be handled by another officer who I've briefed this morning.  Have you had a similiar experience MP?

            • 3. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
              Level 4

              Hi,

               

              Sorry you are having problems with the product....

               

              People here basically try to help each other solve problems , sometimes having to do with compatibility with hardware , sometimes with codecs or other software related issues.... sometimes workflow problems, sometimes just plain old " how do I do this ??? " type of problem.

               

              There are not many here who try to help others like that  who would be extremely interested ( although I am not offended in any way by your post...and I sincerely wish you weren't experiencing your particular problem ....) in getting behind some sort of  " I hate Adobe " movement.

              ------

              You wrote:

              I really hope my state's office of fair trading stomps on your head  adobe!, you'll be hearing from us.

              --------

               

              It is really serious and I understand your anger, and I'm sorry you're going through that.

               

              I personally have some issues with Adobe but on the grand scale of things they are just one company of many making products that compete with one another for certain " markets ".   All in all,  Adobe is not really that important, and certainly not so important it is worth your being angry like that.

               

              You are worth more than that, IMO.

               

              To get by this whole thing maybe you would be happy with a return of Monies spent on the product and go with another product instead ?  Meantime, the wasted time in trying to get it to work, and the disappointment over trusting things would work as advertised or promised or implied can be reported to your local attorney general's office ( or equivalent justice department office ) ....  That way they have it on record and they may be able to look into any systemic and egregiously obvious misrepresentation of product marketing by Adobe.

               

              Good luck !

              Rod

              • 4. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                Fighting Sticks Level 2

                robodog2,

                God bless, you must be American.  In Australia we don't go to our local attorney general's office ( or equivalent justice department office ) [these are US terms].  Here in AUS we deal with the ACCC as well as the state Office of Fair Trading in such situations.  I'm really not hoping for a refund, (I'm not that stupid) but I do hope that Adobe realises you can't tell people the product will do domething if it can not.  If putting this post on the discussion helps stop others from making my mistake then I'll consider it effort well spent.  This is what is at issue here.  Have you had this issue with Adobe yourself Rod?  If so please detail it here as I have bought this post to the attention of the investigating officer.

                • 5. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                  Matt Petersen Level 3

                  Jarrod, to answer your question, I've had about 3 to 4 dealings with the QLD & NSW offices of Fair Trading over about 20 years regarding misleading advertising (the old "bait & switch") and non-functioning products. In each case they have dutifully "logged my complaint". I've never had a situation where the Office has actually "intervened" shall we say.

                   

                  The problem is that your scenario is not clear-cut. Adobe will claim that a trial is freely available and you did not use that to verify the results in your case. They will then show a thousand examples of where CS3 projects have opened and worked in CS4 (as tens of projects have for me).

                   

                  Why didn't YOUR project open successfuly in CS4? who the hell knows. is the software DEFINITELY at fault. perhaps. but then, mine worked, so....

                   

                  Granted, sometimes things don't go our way, and in the video business, you sorta get used to it. For some of us, that's the "buzz"... solving "the puzzle".

                   

                  I wish you luck with your claim. What you are hoping to get from it, I'm not entirely sure.

                   

                  MP

                  • 6. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                    shooternz Level 6

                    Just curious... but what specifically are  these:

                     

                    I upgraded to CS4 Production Premium to take advantage of the new 3D modelling toolsets not available in CS3.

                     

                    and for the record..I have imported (and opened)  CS3 projects in CS4 without a single show stopping issue.

                    • 7. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                      Fighting Sticks Level 2

                      MP,

                      Good to hear you've stepped up for your rights before.  I report the Office of Fair Trading is a champion, although it seems cases they act on take a long time through to completion.  Qld law defines the concept of deceptive practice quite well, sure Adobe can provide a trial however they indicated their product does something which it does not.  It works for you, that's great - you can't run off to Fair Trading.  But I have the same product, they told me it would do something it doesn't before I bought it,  Adobe Technical Support can't assist and previous forum posts were of no help.  Hello the Office of Fair Trading.

                      • 8. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                        Level 4

                        Hi,

                         

                        You're right...hehe..I'm in NY - Long Island - near NYC.  Where are you in AU ?  Are you a " biker " ?  I heard there were tons of motorcycle gangs in AU.

                         

                        Nosey

                         

                         

                         

                        Sure, I would go back to store or online store , and ask for $$ back.  Definitley...bring reciept... I don't think that would be a problem.

                         

                        My personal issues with Adobe have to do with the long term strategy of marketing to a lower and lower standard with regard to " quality " and " professional " standards... in order to have more market share.  Keep in mind that the majority of print based professional products in use were Quark Xpress and Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator....with Postscript ....

                         

                        The desire to have a " suite " of applications, that promised to do more , and that could be bundled and reach a greater market... including small business....has led to many companies doing a lot of strange things over the years...

                         

                        In short Lotus 123 and WordPerfect and Netscape and a lot of other companies in different venues were effected....

                         

                        Recently Adobe bought Macromedia and Flash has been very successful.  The pro editing is not mostly done with CS4.  But Adobe is getting close to making some inroads in that direction.  That, IMO , will take a while ....  and from what I see it is mostly forming a " community " among professionals that will help that happen.....along with a good product.

                         

                        So most people here IMO are into helping others with the product, and it really is a public forum....I don't in any way resemble an Adobe employee or manager or owner even....   ( I own no Adobe stock ).  Nor do I loan Adobe any money ( I own no Bonds ).  Me and Adobe are NOT two peas in a pod !

                         

                        What I mean is, this is an Adobe forum, but it's public and you're not actually reaching the real Adobe company through this forum.  It's more like a chat room than a portal to Adobe...  Know what I mean ?

                         

                         

                        Rod

                        • 9. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                          Fighting Sticks Level 2

                          Good for you shooternz,

                          I wish I could open my project's like you but I can't.  Take a look at cs4 online help.  CS4 allows you to download 3D models as .obj files, Google 3D Warehouse has a massive bank of them (free) in PsCS4, then import them into AeCS4 as a composition which you can then scale and rotate as a true 3D.

                          • 10. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                            Matt Petersen Level 3

                            motorcycle gangs? THAT's what the rest of the world knows us for...?

                             

                            oh dear....

                            • 11. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                              shooternz Level 6

                              So do the .obj files work as advertised for CS4?

                               

                              Anyway... a workaround maybe.... can you use an "intermediate type workflow"from your CS3 components and bring them into CS4?  (or vice versa).

                               

                              It is possibe to have both installed in the same machine concurrently.

                              • 12. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                                Level 4

                                LOL....Noooooo, that was a joke !!    Motorcycle gangs in AU has more to do with the music scene down there and this buddy (musician )  that has a girlfriend there...so he goes there as often as is humanly possible....  ( he is young and foolish  ) .....  and reports back to us...

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                Rod

                                • 13. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                                  Fighting Sticks Level 2

                                  Rod,

                                  This aint a forum at 'creativecow' this is the Premiere Pro discussion forum @ Adobe.com.  I've already contacted tehnical support and complaints at this site.  I shall keep this post informed of all steps taken to get me working on my project in the manner Adobe advised I could achieve.

                                  • 14. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                                    Level 4

                                    Hi,

                                     

                                    Wow... I just went to google and looked at the 3d stuff they have going on...it's amazing !  I think I remember seeing something about this project a year ago or so.  Very cool !

                                     

                                    Are you trying to do match moves with some stuff ?  It's funny you should mention this because I recently got into some programs that do that pretty well.  I'm jjust learning this stuff so I have been following threads to Syntheyes and Maya and AE (believe it or not, for compositing ).

                                     

                                    That's a cool 3d library Google has...  You can import that stuff to Maya and CS4 ?

                                     

                                    Rod

                                    • 15. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                                      Matt Petersen Level 3

                                      Jarrod, I gotta be honest, I STILL think you're missing the point. You are stating outright that this mass-market product fails to work in the promised manner, but that is only true FOR YOU.

                                       

                                      That's like phoning up Ford and complaining that your feet don't reach the pedals.

                                       

                                      Video Editing software is a very complex area, partially because a lot of reliance is placed on the functioning of the OS itself (the display driver, video codecs, et al). Adobe cannot forsee the nature of your project, the footage, the machine, the OS, the camera..... so they make some assumptions that suit the vast majority of their customer base. Should they have PROMISED you that your project will open in CS4? No. Should you have downloaded the TRIAL version and tested it? Yes.

                                       

                                      As I said, good luck with your claim.

                                      • 16. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                                        Fighting Sticks Level 2

                                        Rod,

                                        This post is here to address a serious issue I have with Adobe in relation to product complaints I have recently made to Adobe as well as the ACCC and the Queensland Office of Fair training.  Good for you, you've learnt something new but you're comments aren't assisting the content of my post, take your questions and respectfully place them in a new post please.

                                        • 17. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                                          shooternz Level 6

                                          What are the source files in the CS3 project that are giving you grief?

                                           

                                          What are your hardware specs?

                                           

                                          Do the 3d files work in CS4?

                                          • 18. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                                            Fighting Sticks Level 2

                                            MP,

                                            OK You're not helping me.  Thankyou but please refrain from posting further to this discussion.  You're not a help here.  To use your car metaphor, my feet reach the pedals.  Sure it's a mass produced product but if someone has problems with a sticking accelerator cable they're not making it up.  I've a problem, I'm addressing it and using the forum to record my experience, seek others with a similiar problem, warn people and hopefully in the end report on the steps taken to achieve a positive outcome.  Adobe didn't PROMISE it would work.  Adobe Technical Support 'assured' me it would, when I questioned them about the trial version download they said it would be unnecessary, the product would work, do not bother with the trial download and I purchased that day.

                                            • 19. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                                              shooternz Level 6

                                              @ the o.p

                                               

                                              Your resistance to answering any questions or supplying info pertinent to your files, project, workflow  and hardware will preclude anyones abilty to assist you get this working.

                                               

                                              I am starting to think this is just a TROLL.

                                              • 20. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                                                Fighting Sticks Level 2

                                                shooternz,

                                                OK You're not helping me either.  Thankyou but please refrain from posting further to this discussion.  You're not a help here.

                                                • 21. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                                                  Level 4

                                                  Hi,

                                                   

                                                  It's snowing cats and dogs out there !

                                                  Still blizzard conditions in NYC area re: natl wx svc.

                                                   

                                                  I think I know what you mean by " Troll " ....  or maybe just age related...there's a lot of kids on the google 3d bank..

                                                   

                                                  Rod

                                                  • 22. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                                                    shooternz Level 6

                                                    You are not helping your self and one assumes you only want to argue and not actually find a solution.

                                                     

                                                    Is there a problem supplying the info requested?

                                                    • 23. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                                                      Matt Petersen Level 3

                                                      OK, my last post on the topic, I PROMISE.

                                                       

                                                      I said your feet don't reach the pedals as a way of saying that the product doesn't work for you. I wasn't calling into question your skill level, maturity.. or height for that matter! Just that hey, here's a product that works for most people, but doesn't work for everyone in every situation.

                                                       

                                                      So it's wrong to say "CS3 files don't open in CS4", but perfectly acceptable to say "MY CS3 files won't open in MY installation of CS4". Using the former statement mis-represents the product.

                                                       

                                                      I'm not sure what you mean by me "not helping". You made a post on a public forum and I responded. My goal is to help you make your project work. I'm neither obligated to respond or not respond. If you'd like some troubleshooting help (and I have at least 3 suggestions) I would be more than happy to offer it. But if you're just seeding evidence about the place to support the case that you think you have, then I shall remain silent.

                                                       

                                                      Up to you.

                                                       

                                                      MP

                                                      • 24. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                                                        Fighting Sticks Level 2

                                                        Many thanks to those forum posters & their kind offers to assist.  During a google search for internet based material pointing to other people who have similiar problems I have found a number of individuals who have also made complaints of similiar issues with opening CS3 files in CS4.  It doesn't seem that I'm the only one and others suggest there's a difference between clip lengths/timecodes between clip in CS3 and the length when then imported into CS4.  I've contacted these individuals and await replies.  Secondary to this I've today obtained legal advice on this matter.  It appears that Adobe and it's ivory tower are quite untouchable in this instance.  I can however stand up for my rights and take this issue up with the Australian based Adobe re-seller who has sold me this product.  They indicated they have a no return/refund policy however as I was not supplied with a product that achieves what I was told it would do, I will wait 10 working days from the time I first contacted Adobe's  Technical support and complaint department for a reply from them.  At the end of this time if this issue isn't resolved I again contact the state office of fair trading to inform when of this in relation to my initial complaint.  From this point they are required to investigate the matter within a 45 day period.  I will attend the state office to provide a full statement of events in relation to my complaint.  The Office of Fair Trading is merely a moderator and will within a set timeframe act to arrange a dispute resolution between myself and the resller.  They  have nil power to enforce a refund however if this mediation fails and I don't get a refund or software that can do what it claims to I will then take the reseller to small claims court to retrieve refund and courrt costs if CS4 can't do what it claims.  The law in Queensland is clearly defined on this matter.  I will win, either CS4 does what it says it will or I get my money back.  It's just a matter or time, each step takes around 45 days before I can move onto the next step.  But Adobe I am going to get a refund from your reseller, it's just a matter of time.  I'll keep you posted.

                                                        • 25. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                                                          shooternz Level 6
                                                          Many thanks to those forum posters & their kind offers to assist.

                                                           

                                                          ...all who you blew away with your intrasigence. ( including our resident Adobe Employee who showed some considerable willing ).

                                                           

                                                          Do post back whatever result you get on this lonely, long and winding path (not to mention expensive)...but you could just ask the reseller for a refund under existing consumer rights of satisfaction.   (Ignoring the fact it works for most...if it doesnt work for you...why should you pay for it).

                                                           

                                                          Thanx for best rant I have ever read in my many years on this forum.

                                                           

                                                          Over and Out (of here)

                                                          • 26. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                                                            Fighting Sticks Level 2

                                                            Mate,

                                                            Thanks for your assistance, this post is meant as a record.  If someone else has this problem and google's something like 'cs3 files don't open in cs4' they'll find this link detailing the problems I have found.  I'm still awaiting a reply from the Adobe employee, aka 'dradeke', I addressed on Adobe's forum as well as replies from Adobe's Technical support and complaint's departments.  This post will record all steps I've taken from alerting Adobe of a problem to end result and I am certain obtaining my refund will take many months.  This post is going to get much longer yet, especially if you don't provide me with the basic respect of reading my posts.  Don't forget this is my post, I'm the OP here,  I've indicated I don't want your assistance and asked you to stop posting here - you're not helping me!.  Please discontinue writing on this post.  My last post indicated clearly that I've contacted the reseller and they won't refund me.  Unfortunately given queensland state law I am legally entitled to a refund.  The reseller said 'No refund', so I'm just jumping through all the requirements associated with obtaining my my refund via the order of my state authority.  I'd really appreciate it if you'd stop cluttering this post as your input is not required.

                                                            • 27. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                                                              Fighting Sticks Level 2

                                                              Contacted by Adobe Employee, now commencing on all described action in attempt problem fix.  One moment please......

                                                              • 28. Re: cs3 files don't open in cs4 - complaint for office of fair trading AUS
                                                                Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                                                Since this has become a rambling thread about legal issues, and since the OP has clearly stated that the issue is now between him and his Australian reseller, I'm locking this thread.

                                                                 

                                                                The OP has another topic that involves troubleshooting and other offers of help.  Please continue relevant discussions there.

                                                                 

                                                                -Jeff