7 Replies Latest reply on Dec 6, 2011 12:14 PM by sunlit777

    sony x.v. color

    sunlit777 Level 1

      How am I supposed to deal with avchd footage shot in x.v. color (broad colorspace from sony)? Does Premiere support this feature? Does it interpret it correctly at import/export?

      I have searched the forums to find just one mention of it saying its safe to ignore it. I have my doubts since Sony claims it is a different (from standard RGB) colorspace.

      Can anyone finally shed some light?

        • 1. Re: sony x.v. color
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Unless they supply a new codec with it AND that codec is supported by PR it is more or less marketing hype. XV is a display technique and AFAIK not a recording technique. The color space is still 4:2:0. and unless they change that, as well as up the bitrates, it is only hype.

          • 2. Re: sony x.v. color
            sunlit777 Level 1

            that seems reasonable. However in photography we also got adobe RGB vs standard RGB and nobody seems to argue that adobe RGB is hype just because the file size and codec (e.g. jpg format ) is the same

            • 3. Re: sony x.v. color
              sunlit777 Level 1

              here is the article on x.v.  color from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.v._Color

              still  waiting for comments from Premier experts....

              • 4. Re: sony x.v. color
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                I think that the important word in that entry is "display." Now, the "test" would be to look to Sony's Vegas Pro NLE program. Because the development teams for Sony are "just down the hall," there is a symbiotic relationship between the camera department and the Vegas department.

                 

                How does Vegas Pro handle this footage? Do they have a special color space for it? If so, then there could be use for it, in the editing process, prior to any display needs. That is where I would begin my research. If Vegas Pro makes no mention, then the NLE community is behind the direct display capacities of the color space.

                 

                Good luck, and please update with the research on Vegas Pro.

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: sony x.v. color
                  sunlit777 Level 1

                  I have searched for info on Sony Vegas Pro and found no mention of x.v. color feature so far. However the Sony HDR SR12 camera manual goes about x.v. color:

                  1/ x.v. color is a more familiar term for xvYCC, international standard for color space in video, proposed by Sony.

                  2/ when recording, set x.v. color to ON to capture wider range of colors. ...colors like the brilliant color of flowers and the blue of the sea can be more faithfully reproduced. If a movie shot with x.v. color is played back on not x.v. compatible display the color may not be reproduced correctly.The mode can not be turned on/off while recording video.

                  That suggests that it does indeed do something to video footage.

                  Amazing thing is that neither the Premiere nor Sony Vegas communities have any readily available information of this matter. The most relevant Google search results on x.v. color bring me back to these adobe forums pages, to the topics I have myself started!

                  • 6. Re: sony x.v. color
                    sunlit777 Level 1

                    Here is some info from dvinfo.net forums:

                    Wide gamut (xvColor) and deep color (10, 12 or 16bit color components)  are two different things. You could combine the wider color gamut with  deep color, but no consumer camcorders do this to my knowledge; they're  all 8 bit. Equally you could have deep color without the xvColor wide  gamut.  The gamut defines the range of colors available, while the color  depth defines the number of colors (i.e. how fine the graduation is)  across that color range.

                    The increased color information in xvColor comes from the use of  previously out of range color components, not from (necessarily)  increasing the bit depth.  The old BT.709-5 (sRGB) standard limits luma  values from 16 to 235 and chroma values from 16 to 240.  The xvYCC  (xvColor) standard allows chroma values from 1 to 254 and so allows a  broader range of colors to be represented with the same color bit depth.


                    It's certainly possible that this increase in information (more colors  recorded) may adversely affect recording quality on SR11/SR12, but it  may be that the AVCHD algorithm is good at handling this, so it makes  little noticeable difference. It's certainly not as bad as the effect of  increasing color depth would be.


                    The potential 'problems' come with the unknown behavior of how your  editing or display software will handle these out of range values?  It  seems likely to me that they may just be truncated, which is where  problems may arise.  To give an example....a valid color value for a  pixel in xvColor format might be (Y=235, Cb=254, Cr=1).  If this color  is dumbly truncated to the sRGB valid ranges it becomes (Y=235, Cb=240,  Cr=16) which may be a noticeably different color.


                    None of the editors (Vegas included) seem to explicitly support xvColor,  so who knows what they're doing to out of gamut pixels.

                    • 7. Re: sony x.v. color
                      sunlit777 Level 1

                      I am still in search of information on Premier handling AVCHD footage with x.v. color (xvYCC) - NOBODY SEEMS TO KNOW so far. What is Premier doing with extra color information? Will it be retained if we check the maximum render quality and maximum bit depth checkboxes? Who can reply? Amazing lack of information!