5 Replies Latest reply: Feb 15, 2010 8:11 AM by Peter Truskier RSS

    Corrupted outlines when trapping "bevel and embossed" type

    KaiserGuy Community Member
    KaiserGuy Feb 14, 2010 7:13 PM

      I'm trying to trapped a document that uses the Bevel and Emboss effect on some type. I've attached a very simple reproduction of the issue.

       

      Whenever I produce the attached Indd with the attached Adobe PDF joboptions (Essentially a 1200 dpi PDFX1a) with the attached print settings (Default plus built-in trapping) I get the attached Trapping Test Results.pdf. The text is horrible mangled and shows up that way in the print as well.

       

      I owrk for a digital print shop with very limited resources both in personnel, trained prepress skill, time, and money. We simply can't avoid all of the pretty effects in InDesign CS4 for the rest of eternity and we also can't look at every letter of every document to see if the type got mangled during trapping.

       

      Any ideas on how to rectify the situation?

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        • 1. Re: Corrupted outlines when trapping "bevel and embossed" type
          Peter Truskier Community Member
          Peter Truskier Feb 14, 2010 9:51 PM (in response to KaiserGuy)

          Is this a "real-world" document? The amount of bevel and emboss applied is HUGE for this text (nearly 7 pts). What is the desired effect?

           

          What were the transparency flattener settings used? The print preset appears to point to the built-in "[Medium]" flattener preset; is that correct? How/where is the text getting outlined? Does anything change if you explicitly outline the text before printing?

           

          Also, what does trapping have to do with the problem? Where do you think trapping is being applied? Your preset points to the Adobe PDF Printer, yet Distiller does not do trapping.

          • 2. Re: Corrupted outlines when trapping "bevel and embossed" type
            KaiserGuy Community Member
            KaiserGuy Feb 15, 2010 6:41 AM (in response to Peter Truskier)

            Yes this is a real world scenario. I've recreated only the elements required to reproduce the problem but this text is being laid on top of a photo of a starry sky (using the "Paper" color swatch) and there is a drop shadow on the original text and the bevel and emboss is simply to keep the text from appearing so flat in a subtle way.

             

            I intend to use different transparency settings than the Medium resolution but I've found that the problem occurs no matter what transparency settings I use and since Medium is the default, I deemed it appropriate to use in this reproduction of the problem.

             

            The problem still occurs if "Convert to outlines" is applied to the text box prior to printing.

             

            Trapping applies because I intend to trap all of our documents in our prepress workflow as they are printed from InDesign. This is an example of some text in one of our documents that doesn't trap well. If the final publication was simply what you see in this reproduction of the problem then obviously no trapping would be necessary. However, the final design definitely requires trapping. Supplying the entire file with all of its variables is not necessary. I have isolated the issue with this test document to make it easier to troubleshoot.

             

            Distiller does not do trapping. You are correct. However, InDesign does trapping for each page before the PS stream gets to Distiller if you select "In-Rip Separations" and "Application Built-in" trapping on the Output section of the Print dialog.

             

            Real world or not, tasteful design or not, this shouldn't be happening. If it happends in this case, how am I to know what other situations the problem will show up in? I need to be able to trust the output from InDesign.

            • 3. Re: Corrupted outlines when trapping "bevel and embossed" type
              Mr. Met Community Member
              Mr. Met Feb 15, 2010 7:11 AM (in response to KaiserGuy)

              If this is printing digitally in 4C why do you need trapping?

              • 4. Re: Corrupted outlines when trapping "bevel and embossed" type
                KaiserGuy Community Member
                KaiserGuy Feb 15, 2010 7:17 AM (in response to Mr. Met)

                Whether I need trapping or not, its a problem.

                 

                This is getting printed on a 5 color Adast 755 DI (offset sheetfed) press.

                • 5. Re: Corrupted outlines when trapping "bevel and embossed" type
                  Peter Truskier Community Member
                  Peter Truskier Feb 15, 2010 8:11 AM (in response to KaiserGuy)

                  Your previous answers and explanations put this all into context, and it makes sense now. Sadly, I think you've simply encountered a limitation of InDesign's built-in trapping. The refinement of the objects it creates has always been a bit rough, and I think it just gets overwhelmed by the complexity of one raster-generating effect abutting another.

                   

                  While you could certainly file a bug report/feature request, I wouldn't guess the chances of a fix are very high. Given what you describe as the financial liabilities/consequences involved, I guess a dedicated trapping solution or one built into the workflow might be worth considering.