15 Replies Latest reply on Feb 16, 2010 11:45 PM by OsakaWebbie

    CS3: Chapter markers from PPro-exported AVI

    OsakaWebbie Level 1

      I've searched for more clues on this, but every reply to a similar question is something I'm already doing.  I have PPro/Encore CS3 on Windows XP.  On my PPro timeline, at each point where I wanted a chapter point, I placed the indicator, selected Marker -> Set Encore Chapter Marker, and then selected Marker -> Edit Encore Chapter Marker and typed in a name (because it is rumored to be necessary).  [Side note: Wouldn't it be nice if it asked for a name in the first place, instead of requiring two steps every time...]  Then I did Export to Movie, with File Type = Microsoft DV AVI, and in Compile Settings, I made sure that Fields to Export - Chapters was checked.  But in Encore, when I do "Import as Timeline" on my AVI file, I don't get any chapter points.  Does anyone know what I might be doing wrong?

        • 1. Re: CS3: Chapter markers from PPro-exported AVI
          Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          If you export to movie, you must use a sequence marker, not an encore marker.  And yes, that one must have a name.

           

          The encore marker is sent to encore via export to dvd.

          • 2. Re: CS3: Chapter markers from PPro-exported AVI
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            Yes, the Encore Markers are for use with Adobe Dynamic Link (DL).

             

            Good luck,

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: CS3: Chapter markers from PPro-exported AVI
              Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Just to keep the CS's in line, in CS3, DL was only available for After Effects.  And with the "Export to Encore," you could either burn or author, but you had to make the transcode settings in Premiere (so no automatic transcode - you have to export movie to avi and bring that into EN).  I suspect I will love DL for Encore in some future edition if I ever upgrade.

               

              Also, I tested, and an Encore marker works (via Export to Encore) even if not named.

              • 4. Re: CS3: Chapter markers from PPro-exported AVI
                OsakaWebbie Level 1

                Three things confuse me in you guys' answers - perhaps you can clarify.  Remember that I am using CS3, and it's not a bundle but just PPro & Encore.

                1. Stan said "Export To DVD", but that is not an option in CS3 - did you mean "Export To Encore"?
                2. I have always ignored Export To Encore, because it seems just like Export -> Adobe Media Encoder -> MPEG2-DVD except that it then launches Encore with a new project, as if one always would want only one timeline per DVD.  I don't think I have ever had a DVD with only one timeline, so what is that option useful for?
                3. Bill, that also doesn't look at all like Dynamic Link - in fact, I didn't think I even had Dynamic Link available to me because I didn't buy a bundle.  There is an item on the File menu called Adobe Dynamic Link (which I have never used), but the subitems only relate to AE, not Encore.

                 

                I did test adding a sequence marker, then editing it to add text to the "Chapter" option section, and that does work to get an AVI to have chapters.  But it will be a lot of work to go to each chapter marker one by one (using the menu - there is no hot key), calling up Edit Encore Chapter Marker just to see what I named it, then setting a sequence marker, then editing it to add the same text.  In the past I have always just created all the chapter points in Encore, but I thought this might save time.  Not so far!  Anyway, I still have some more editing work to do on my last timeline before I have to finalize the Encore project, so while I'm doing that I'll wait to see if you guys have a way I can use the chapter markers I have already created.  But as far as I can tell, they don't work at all in an AVI.  They do work in an MPEG2 file, and doing the encoding in PPro is my typical workflow, but this project has three timelines totally 2 1/2 hours, so in this case I want Encore to do the encoding calculation for me.  And I'm also learning for the future.

                 

                One more question: Is there a way to add and name a marker (either kind) in a single step?  The workflow of creating a marker and then having to go to the menu and select "Edit <whatever> Marker" to name it seems inefficient and counter-intuitive.

                • 5. Re: CS3: Chapter markers from PPro-exported AVI
                  OsakaWebbie Level 1

                  Oh, Stan replied again while I was typing my answer and testing things.  And you already clarified some of the things I asked about (#1 and #3) - thanks.  So for the future, when I'm using PPro for the encoding (perhaps even if I use the Adobe Media Encoder method rather than Export To Encore, since all my encoding presets are there and it doesn't require the extra step of closing Encore after it opens an unneeded new project), it's nice to know that I don't need to name the markers.  Having names is kinda handy in Encore when I'm linking menu buttons to the chapters, but it may not be worth the extra steps in PPro.  I did test - the markers work in an MPEG2 file using the Adobe Media Encoder method also.

                   

                  But I'm still wondering if all my Encore Chapter Marker work is for naught if I need to use AVIs as the transfer vehicle, so to speak.  Yes, I could try to calculate the bitrates needed for the video streams based on the times and then tell PPro to encode accordingly, but it's a complicated calculation (need to do the audio calculation first, then the video, I think, even though the audio will get encoded later in Encore), and it doesn't account for the space needed for the menus, which I don't know how to predict.  If there are easy, reliable methods, I'm not aware of them.  Normally I don't have a space problem, but this time...

                   

                  And I still don't have any idea what advantage Export To Encore has over Adobe Media Encoder (other than saving the trivial step of opening Encore and importing one's files as a timeline, and only if you have just one timeline in your project).  Enlighten me if you know.

                  • 6. Re: CS3: Chapter markers from PPro-exported AVI
                    Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    Yes, I should have said "Export to Encore" in my first note.  The export to Encore was a bit more powerful way to do the CS2 quick DVD from PR; I do not use it.

                     

                    Quickest way to do sequence marker: Create the sequence marker, then double click it to add text.

                     

                    There's no simple way to fix what you have.  I have done similar things by writing down the time code for each marker, then creating them in Encore.  And I have copied and pasted chapter names from one to the other.  But in the end, I usually export movie/avi from PR, transcode automatic in EN, and I do the actual chapters in EN (no worrying about gops, since I am working with the avi).

                     

                    I have the dreaded pgc errors with some frequency, so I often have to abandon the chapters (they're in the xmpses file), and add them back.  But I create them before the first transcoding in EN to keep gops, and then I make a list of timecodes for chapters and poster frames.  Doesn't take all that long if you don't try to reinvent the wheel each time.

                    1 person found this helpful
                    • 7. Re: CS3: Chapter markers from PPro-exported AVI
                      OsakaWebbie Level 1

                      I went back and looked again at the Help page that relates to this discussion - it can be found on the web here.  First of all, it never says what kind of marker you need to set - naturally when I looked at my choices, "Encore Chapter Marker" seemed the most appropriate, so I assumed...

                       

                      But point #4 in the doc page is curious - it seems to indicate that if you set "Export Blank Markers" (which is even set by default) you don't need to have "information in the fields", which I assume includes the "Chapter" option text I added in my small test a few hours ago.  After re-reading that help page, I just now tried another test, including a sequence marker with no text and exporting to AVI.  Even though  "Export Blank Markers" was checked, the blank marker did not produce a chapter point in Encore.  Is this a bug?  If not, I have no idea what that "Export Blank Markers" option actually does.

                      • 8. Re: CS3: Chapter markers from PPro-exported AVI
                        OsakaWebbie Level 1

                        Our messages crossed in the mail again!  I should refresh the thread and check before hitting Submit, but I'm used to most people being asleep at this time of day.  Perhaps you're an Aussie/Kiwi, or a night-owl on the west coast of the Americas...

                         

                        Thanks for the tip about double-clicking - I had tried right-clicking, but that was not helpful.

                         

                        And it's oddly comforting to know that I'm not the only one who has had to do laborious redo's of stuff like this.  I haven't yet had the pleasure of one of those PGC errors, but I'm sure I will one day, and then (according to the internet rumors) I'll have to give up my marker data and re-do the chapters in Encore to get it to go away.

                        • 9. Re: CS3: Chapter markers from PPro-exported AVI
                          Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          Yes, I think a) the help files were confusing and b) some of the functionality did not appear to work.  However, it is still not entirely clear to me what functionality was intended.

                           

                          The other relevant section is here:

                           

                          http://livedocs.adobe.com/en_US/PremierePro/3.0/help.html?content=WS1c9bc5c2e465a58a91cf0b 1038518aef7-7c90.html

                           

                          That is where the encore chapter marker is discussed.

                           

                          In the section you point to, "If you export marker data and specify a marker as a chapter point in Adobe Premiere " the way you specify a (sequence) marker as a chapter point is to add information into the chapter section of that marker.

                           

                          But in the other info linked above, they are very specific about how this works in flash.

                           

                          I never tested the export blank marker option, but it appears to be checked by default in my setup (and does not export blank sequence markers in an avi going to encore).  It is possible that it is in the avi file, but not in a form that Encore will use.  In any event, it is a common belief among users who have struggled with this that you must put information in for a sequence marker to be seen by Encore.

                          • 10. Re: CS3: Chapter markers from PPro-exported AVI
                            OsakaWebbie Level 1

                            I would love to read the other help page you want to show me, but the link you provided is the same as the one in my post.  Did you hit Copy while on the wrong tab's address bar, perhaps?

                             

                            By the way, I'll select a couple posts as the "Helpful Answer" and "Correct Answer", but it's not that simple - the whole discussion has been informative.

                            • 11. Re: CS3: Chapter markers from PPro-exported AVI
                              Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              Duh!: The URL stays the same even if you go to different help pages.

                               

                              This is the other one:

                               

                              http://livedocs.adobe.com/en_US/PremierePro/3.0/WS9390BED7-9466-46ea-A0EA-3240F1AFC36C.htm l

                               

                              I visited Kiwi land once upon a time, but I'm an east coast night owl!

                              • 12. Re: CS3: Chapter markers from PPro-exported AVI
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                Stanely,

                                 

                                Are you positive about ADL onlly going to AE in CS3? The reason that I ask is that there is a rudimentary ADL between PrPro and En in CS2 Production Studio. I know that the whole thing was beefed up in CS4, and I do not use it in CS2 (PrPro 2.0 & EnDVD 2.0), but it's there and I have experimented with it. Just curious.

                                 

                                Thanks,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: CS3: Chapter markers from PPro-exported AVI
                                  Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  Yes, it is not called dl, you must export a file (whether an avi or using export to encore), and there is no integral updating back and forth.  However, it approaches dl (I like rudimentary), because you can revert to original, edit original (as long as you used project optoins when exported), edit in PR, and then it updates in EN.  But it does not operate as the dl does for AE in CS3.

                                  • 14. Re: CS3: Chapter markers from PPro-exported AVI
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    Actually, in my Production Studio versions, the term Adobe Dynamic Link is used. One had to have the Production Studio, as there was no such thing with the individual products. In my case, it's not THAT useful. Do not have CS3, but it was supposed to be better, and by then, there was no need for the Production Studio, as Encore was bundled with PrPro. By CS4, things have gotten better yet, but sometimes still not perfect, as we see too often in the Encore forum - when things go wonky, most will recommend to just use the "old fashioned" way - Export/Import into Encore and away you go - however no updating of changes in PrPro - it's the same steps all over again.

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: CS3: Chapter markers from PPro-exported AVI
                                      OsakaWebbie Level 1

                                      Bill, what I can tell you is that in my PPro CS3, the menu items for Dynamic Link only relate to AE.  I have never tried using it, because it seems like the kind of thing that would have a high probability of "going wonky", as you say, especially with only 2GB of RAM on my machine.  AE alone brings it to its knees.  (Also, my AE is CS4, bought separately, so I don't know if DL would even work at all.)  Besides, I'm much more comfortable with PPro than AE, so the only times I use AE are when I have to do something that only AE can do, and in that case I have trouble imagining how PPro could handle the effects and such.

                                       

                                      By the way, Stan, your tip of double-clicking the markers really smoothed the process of making sequence versions of all my Encore markers.  I made my AVIs last night, brought them into Encore this morning, and they worked like a charm.  Now I'm in the process of making chapter menus and trying to fit bilingual button labels for all those chapters... (this interface doesn't have an emoticon that is sweating, or I would have used it)