11 Replies Latest reply on Feb 16, 2010 1:00 PM by the_wine_snob

    Audio anomaly when playing a DVD

    Yard-Gnome Level 1

      I have created a DVD with Encore CS4, which was made in Premiere CS4. When the DVD is played on a DVD player/Television which are connected via an RF (coax) cable (and the TV is tuned to channel 3 or 4) the audio of certain clips is very low. When the DVD is played on the same DVD player/television when they are connected together via the RCA connectors (red, white, yellow) the audio is just fine.

      This behavior has been duplicated on 3 different DVD player/TV setups.

       

      The project consists of old video clips interspersed among recent interview footage. It is the interview footage which has low volume when played back under the above conditions. The footage was shot with a Cannon GL2 and Imported into Premiere. The project is set up as stereo, not 5.1.

       

      I just can't imagine what could be different about the audio on the interview footage which would be interpreted differently depending how the DVD player and TV set are connected. How could it make any difference in either the DVD player's conversion to, or the TV's conversion from, the RF signal? I'd really like to understand what is causing this, but more importantly would like to fix it. This DVD is to be mailed out to 1500 people, and I'd like to be sure that it will play with no problems for any of them, regardless of how their DVD players and TVs are hooked up.

       

      Have any of you heard of this before or have any suggestions?

       

      BTW, The same thing has happened on a different project made by a coworker with Final Cut Express and iDVD.

        • 1. Re: Audio anomaly when playing a DVD
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Not many people would use RF or component for this connection. Most would use Scart as the connection of choice. What happens when you use that?

          • 2. Re: Audio anomaly when playing a DVD
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            I have never encountered this, but have to admit that all of my sound systems are connected via composite, or HDMI, so I do not have your exact situation. Interesting, and something that I would not have considered.

             

            One problem with DVD production is that the producer has zero control over what the user's system might consist of, and how it would be calibrated.

             

            Not THAT long ago, one producer was concerned about his clients, who might not have any sound system, and wanted to mix for TV speakers from the 1990's. To me, if I did such, I'd then do a supplemental Audio stream, with a menu for the user to choose between the "ultimate mix," and old TV speakers. Just no direct control.

             

            Good luck, and thanks for bringing this to my attention. Unfortunately, I do not have any tips, or hints for you, and cannot even check it out, though I have 3 home theaters, and a half-dozen other setups - none are coax.

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: Audio anomaly when playing a DVD
              Yard-Gnome Level 1

              In answer to your question, Harm; No, I hadn't thought of that - mainly because the components which I have that are able to demonstrate this odd behavior are not equipped with scart. My guess is that if someone has a system that is interconnected via coax, they probably are using older equipment which isn't scart-able, too.

               

              Ideally I'm looking for a fix that doesn't require a modification that treats the symptom in the playback setup, but a cure for the problem in the media so the end user doesn't have to "troubleshoot" and which doesn't reelect badly on our company. I've never heard of this behavior in any commercial movie DVDs, which makes me think there is something that I can change to prevent it, but what?

              • 4. Re: Audio anomaly when playing a DVD
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                Now, going back to the other user, who wanted to offer a mix for TV-only users, you could do a second mix with those areas that you detected soft with a bit more gain. This could be a supplemental audio stream on the DVD and you'd just do an audio selection Menu, like you'd do with a second language. The user could either choose the supplemental (Audio 2), from the menu, or from the Audio button on the remote. I'd put some instructions on the DVD case's liner notes, and maybe even a statement on that audio-selection Menu, so they will know where to turn, if they are on a coax connection.

                 

                Just a thought,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: Audio anomaly when playing a DVD
                  Yard-Gnome Level 1

                  Thanks, Hunt. I suspect that, like you, the vast majority of end users will be hooked up with contemporary connections.

                   

                  A side note: what makes this so bad is that we sent a pre-mastered copy to the president of the organization and he is the one who accidentally discovered this anomaly, otherwise it would probably be less of an issue to just "let it go" as is.

                  • 6. Re: Audio anomaly when playing a DVD
                    the_wine_snob Level 9
                    we sent a pre-mastered copy to the president of the organization and he is the one who accidentally discovered this anomaly, otherwise it would probably be less of an issue to just "let it go" as is.

                     

                    Oops! Gotta' keep the "big guy" happy.

                     

                    You might want to look into doing the dual-audio thing, and let him try it. I'd do a Save_As for your Encore Project, so you do not mess anything up there. Then in your Save_As Project, add a re-mixed Audio as Audio 2, stick in a Menu, either as Play First, or just after any Intro, and give him the option of selecting the "Home Theater Mix," or the "Coax Connection Mix." If you know where the Audio attenuates, just go into PrPro and ride the Gain in those areas. Do a second Export for the Audio-only, Import that into Encore, and drag it to Audio 2 in your Timeline. Complete the linking, specifying Audio 1 for the first, and Audio 2 for the second Buttons on that new Menu. Set that Menu to Loop maybe twice, and then its End Action to the Main Menu. The user can decide there, or can use the Audio button on the remote at any time.

                     

                    The "big guy," will then see how hard you've worked (make up a story about working around the clock for days, when it'll only take a few minutes) to get things right for all users.

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Audio anomaly when playing a DVD
                      Yard-Gnome Level 1

                      You know, a second audio stream could just work. Thanks for making sure I saw the implication of your previous post for this project. (I still want to know what is causing this so it doesn't happen in future projects, but...) And thank you very much for the specific steps to take - This is my first "real" project which is not just transferring VHS to DVD sorts of things so your extra guidance will get me started in the right direction. I think I follow what you said, and I have one question.

                       

                      I have 4 timelines, which are 4 choices on the main menu, two of which return to the main menu upon upon completion, and 2 which go to sub menus with "play all" options as well as scene selections with overrides which return to their respective sub menus. Do you know if a one time selection of the audio option could carry over to subsequent timeline choices or sub menus, or would the 2nd audio track need to be re-selected before going to each timeline or sub menu?

                       

                      (Should I start a new thread with this "how-to" topic? Or, move it to the Encore forum somehow?)

                      • 8. Re: Audio anomaly when playing a DVD
                        WAHunt3 Level 1

                        The Encore forum is probably the best, but we're here, and there are some Encore gurus, who do post here, so let's see if we can tackle things here. If Jeff (one of those Encore gurus, and a MOD) feels that it should be split, he'll do that for us, as if by magic!

                         

                        OK, if all of your Timeline have the same exact Audio 1 and Audio 2 layout, selecting the proper Audio at the beginning should carry through (if I am incorrect, then Jeff will surely give you specific details). You'll just need to do the two mixes for each, but you already have the mixes for Audio 1, so it will just be a re-mix, Export/Import and drag to the Audio 2 Track - not THAT much extra work. This will take up a little more space on your DVD-Video, but not THAT much.

                         

                        Now, let's go to your navigation:

                         

                        with overrides which return to their respective sub menus

                        The Overrides are likely to cause trouble. With Play Lists (as of EncoreDVD 2.0), there is almost no reason to use them. You can use Play Lists with appropriate End Actions for each, instead of Overrides. I would go that route, and eliminate ALL Overrides. Note: Overrides can be almost everywhere, so you might need to search deeply to make sure that ALL are set to Not Set.

                         

                        Now, for additional navigational questions, they will probably be best in the Encore forum, just so that you can get more input from some people, who do not frequent this forum - you benefit from their knowledge.

                         

                        Good luck,

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: Audio anomaly when playing a DVD
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          Just so you do not get confused, that was my "alter-ego." Sometimes, Adobe decides that he should pop-up, and replace Bill Hunt. I seldom get warned, and do not know why this happens - I'll wake up as Bill Hunt, post a few dozen replies as Bill Hunt, and then POOF! WAHunt3 shows up. Hope that he's not up to anything nefarious...

                           

                          Good luck,

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: Audio anomaly when playing a DVD
                            Yard-Gnome Level 1

                            Thanks again, Hunt. I'm still hoping for a cure in the next few days, but if that doesn't come, most likely I'll go the 2nd audio route - so I'll continue to try to understand what would be involved in doing so.

                             

                            I was previously unaware of "Play Lists". Here is what I think I figured out... My sub menus give access to several short videos, both by a "play all" link or by clicking on individual titles. After a single video plays by going to it directly, I want to return to the sending sub menu where I can pick a different title if I want (or click one of the links to "play all" or to return to the main menu). I presume that I would make a play list for each of the links to the individual videos which plays it and returns to the sending menu. And by doing it this way, the 2nd audio channel, if evoked, would stay active even after selecting individual videos off the list?

                             

                            Gnome

                            • 11. Re: Audio anomaly when playing a DVD
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              Good luck with tracking down the audio anomaly. I'd be interested to find out the cause and the criteria for either inducing that behavior, or the "cure" for it.

                               

                              Because you can use Play Lists with just one Asset/Timeline and can control their End Actions individually, they will do what you want, and without Overrides. When you do set the End Actions, you can get very specific about how the Menu (the one that you are going to, or returning to) displays - you can just choose to have the default Button Highlighted, or can choose to have any Button on it Highlighted.

                               

                              If you do post to the Encore forum, it would be very useful to get a screen-cap of your Flowchart Panel, or a graphic of your flowchart. I usually create a flowchart in Illustrator, prior to doing much linking, especially if I have multiple Menus and multiple paths, that the user can choose to access Timelines. The forum will not accept AI files, IIRC, but you can Open one in PS, and then just Save_As JPEG. I recommend keeping the compression low, by using a setting of ~ 9 in PS, so people can read the flowchart.

                               

                              Once you use Play Lists, you will never look back. Also, remember that there are Play Lists, and also Chapter Play Lists. They are similar, but different. I am talking about Play Lists here, and not Chapter Play Lists (though they are useful for other things).

                               

                              Good luck, and please report,

                               

                              Hunt