16 Replies Latest reply on Feb 23, 2010 9:42 AM by Wade_Zimmerman

    Which one: Crop Area CS3,multiple artboards CS4, Masking

    Cito-plan

      What's the best way to get multiple, different portions out of one document?

       

      let's explain:

      I've got a city map document, size 1000 mm x 1500 mm.

      I want to take different portions of the map size 90 mm x 120 mm (and other formats) out of it, some overlapping the other.

      In CS3 there was the Crop Area tool but in CS4 that tool is gone.

      In CS4 there is the multiple Artboard function but limited to 100 artboards.

       

      I have got more!, due to the fact that I need several portions, different sizes and had to re-use them several times so I want to "save" them in the original document (position of the artboards/crop Areas are fatal due to code positons in  the map).

       

      To get the idea, I've made several citymaps and want to combine portions(pages) of it together in one Atlas.

      The way I used to do this in Freehand was with the Lens function, acts like the crop area tool.. and take the EPS to Indesign to make a multiple page atlas from it.

       

      In this particular document I have got over a hundred "lens" area's and I'm searching for a solution in Illustrator. (And I've got 150 of those documents)

       

      I thought masking was an option but realize that when I export the different masked documents, let's say hundred times and place it in indesign it's possible the indesign document becomes to complex... let's not talk about the almost impossible job to get them all in place...

       

      I'm still migrating from Freehand to illustrator. In the near future I want to get this work done in illustrator if possible..

        • 1. Re: Which one: Crop Area CS3,multiple artboards CS4, Masking
          Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

          Over 100 artboards overlapping etc. well you are not going to remember which is which in one document and navigating through them is going to be hard..

           

          So will make a suggestion, and this is ony a suggestion you do not have to take the suggestion to ean anything other than what it is inteded to be.

           

          Make as many copies of the file and give it suffix and group the most related artboards together.

           

          Now you can have as many artboards as you wish.

           

          Once again this is a suggestion

          • 2. Re: Which one: Crop Area CS3,multiple artboards CS4, Masking
            Cito-plan Level 1

            >>Over 100 artboards overlapping etc. well you are not going to remember which is which in one document and navigating through them is going to be hard..<<

            Youre right about that! that's why it's not really an option, and the only thing i want is clipping pieces out of it (exact copies with different layers on and off) for use in lets say indesign.

             

            >>Make as many copies of the file and give it suffix and group the most related artboards together<<

            What if there is one correction in the document....I have to correct that in all the copies..

             

            What you're trying to say is:  there is no other option?

            Is there some kind of plugin or script that could do the job?

            If an "old" program like Freehand was capable of clipping pieces out of a document..CS3 could do this with Crop Area....So Adobe CS5? a plugin?

             

            Adobe wants me to migrate to illustrator and I'm willing to..but migrating step by step from Freehand to illustrator.. along that way there are so many obstacles to conquer it's becoming ...........

             

            I'm thankfull that guys like Jtalmage makes thing a bit easier with his scripts and workarounds mentioned in this forum.

            I hope CS5 will give me some relief...

            • 3. Re: Which one: Crop Area CS3,multiple artboards CS4, Masking
              Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

              I can give you a sensible work around but since you are a former FH user I would not want to inhibit your fun.

               

              But good luck. Maybe you can figure it out,this is something you should have been able to do in FH and so you really shoudhave to ask.

               

              If this could not be done in FH then that would be one of the reason it is no longer. It is  very basic function of such a application.

              • 4. Re: Which one: Crop Area CS3,multiple artboards CS4, Masking
                Cito-plan Level 1

                Mr. Zimmerman,

                 

                I can give you a sensible work around but since you are a former FH user I would not want to inhibit your fun.

                 

                Tired of answering "painfull" questions from Former Freehand users? i thought you were one too?

                 

                For the record If you feel offended, that wasn't my intention at all!

                as i mentioned in the earlier post reply, I'm willing to get things done in illustrator but sometimes i get frustrated too!

                 

                If this could not be done in FH then that would be one of the reason it is no longer. It is  very basic function of such a application.

                Again for the record, Freehand is capable of doing this and still is (MX works in new mac OS 10.6.2)

                 

                But.. hé i'll have to go on and get my work done even if this means working with illustrator is the only option.

                And it IS the only option but not as simple as most illustrator users think.

                 

                "Why? You could get another vector drawing programm instead of illustrator"

                NO, at this point the only vector program who's capable of getting most of my work editable, with layers etc.is Illustrator.

                it's importing all my work for 70% right, Text is a great problem, and last but not least the missing of the "lens" function is the greatest problem.

                 

                I've tried masking, clipping, and crop Area. I've tried CS4 (trial) multiple artboards because Crop Area tool was disapeared..

                Imaging I've had all my work already done in CS3 and worked with the Crop Area tool, upgrade to CS4 and hé... GREAT PROBLEM!!!!

                So a little understanding isn't out of place here, we all have to deal with it, one more than the other but...life isn't easy.

                 

                Daniel Hoogendoorn

                Cito-plan b.v. The Netherlands

                • 5. Re: Which one: Crop Area CS3,multiple artboards CS4, Masking
                  Cito-plan Level 1

                  Eureka..?

                   

                  layer masking, that could be the one to use in my case.

                  This is what i did;

                  Created a citymap with hundres of layers.

                  collect them in a new layer (layerpanel)

                  All layers will be preserved with names!

                  All layers are editable

                  created a rectangle according my specs.

                  in the layerpanel at the bottom clicked on the make laye rmask,

                  saved as an eps!  (in that way the bounding box matches the rectangle)

                  placed in Indesign and there it is, my first page of my atlas.

                   

                  Opens more options, collecting layers so it will be a group, for instance roads...

                  In this way i think it would be possible to define several layer mask for several "pages", different in size and diferent (sub)layers on and off..

                   

                  I think i solved it, a litle workaround, still have to try this with several masks..

                  • 6. Re: Which one: Crop Area CS3,multiple artboards CS4, Masking
                    Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                    Netherlands huh!

                     

                    It can be simpler than that as I originally wrote, instead of copying the file, place it in several documents one say for each region.

                     

                    Make sure you link the file.

                     

                    Now you can edit the original and all the files will update.

                     

                    You can place that in ID as a linked file.

                     

                    If you place it in PS asa smart object and you access the smart object you be able to open the linked file and every file that is a smart object that is linked to that original which is external should also update.

                    • 7. Re: Which one: Crop Area CS3,multiple artboards CS4, Masking
                      Cito-plan Level 1

                      Netherlands huh!

                      ???????????????

                       

                      Quiet simple indeed, looks like the old publish and subcribe feature, but...

                      As you can see in my earlier post it's a Citymap, this means i've got hundreds of streetnames all over the place..

                       

                      place it in several documents one say for each region.

                       

                      Oké, let's get it right, I Place (link) the original AI file in several "documents" either illustrator or indesign.

                      This means i've got, upon saving the original, several documents ("regions") with the SAME AI file in it, true..

                      let's take ID as the final layout program for each "region" and positioning each region in a rectangle frame.

                       

                      Now here's my problem,;

                      if this was only vector art,( Roads, Area fills, landmarks etc and NO text) there's no problem at all.

                      But I've got several text which has to be in Region A, partial in Region B but Not C... and text that has to be in all of them.

                      So if I save the file for region A it's not usable for Region B,C etc.

                      In the case of an Atlas of the complete citymap every "page" (region) has got it's one specific layers to be on and off.

                      Upon save of the original (set to be oké for page 1) , it is also updated in page 2,3,4 etc but WRONG.

                      ( one document for each page, and then again one Export for each page to be printed)

                       

                      The use of linked EPS (PDF, etc) is in my opnion a better solution because of there specific output. (only for 1 page ("region")

                      Doing this from whitin the original, layers on/off and export just that specific portion for layout/print.

                      Or am I missing something?

                      Besides that when I place(Link) the original AI file in ID it's bounding box is the size of the original document and not the size of the piece I only want to see...

                       

                       

                      So don't get me wrong again, don't be offended, I only want to get things completely clear for future use of AI and a consistend workflow!

                      that's why there is a Forum, asking, explaining and helping each other to solve problems, get ideas...etc

                       

                      So, master, is grasshopper seeing things completely wrong?

                      • 8. Re: Which one: Crop Area CS3,multiple artboards CS4, Masking
                        Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                        I gave you a solution.

                         

                        You don't have to use it.

                         

                        Have a nice day!

                        • 9. Re: Which one: Crop Area CS3,multiple artboards CS4, Masking
                          Cito-plan Level 1

                          is this the way of communicating? I don't understand your behaviour at all.

                          Still have a nice day and good beye

                          • 10. Re: Which one: Crop Area CS3,multiple artboards CS4, Masking
                            Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                            Like I wrote I gave you a solution and it will work for you but it was not good enough and i cannot make sense out of the work flow you say you are following .

                             

                            If you have the same document that gas t be accurate how can it have different information just because it is showing a different region, it's a  the information is the sam e even if it spills over to the next region.

                             

                            If you mean there is data that pertains to that region and not to other regions then you would not place it on the master art but in the ID layout.

                             

                            You simply seem to be trying to not make a sensible workflow work.

                             

                            I have given you a solution a very simple and well established work flow even though it may have passed you by.

                             

                            You have the choice to use it or deny that it works for you.

                             

                            What more can you expect.

                            • 11. Re: Which one: Crop Area CS3,multiple artboards CS4, Masking
                              Cito-plan Level 1

                              If you mean there is data that pertains to that region and not to other regions then you would not place it on the master art but in the ID layout.

                               

                              That's were you hit the key!

                              I get your solution but this is precisely why it doesn't work for the documents right now!

                              I'm doing this for 20 years now in another program (i'm scared to mention which one) and if you are interested i can explain what i'm doing.

                              It's not that i don't want to migrate to illustrator, it's getting to know illustrator and then make a well thought plan for migrating to it.

                               

                              To explain how the work is done right now:

                               

                              In a few top layers there are several rectangles which presents the pages/fragments i want to export.

                              In FH there is the lens function; select the rectangle, select fill, lens opacity zero , go to export and mark selected object only and EPS.

                              In this way I get all my pages with the correct data, place them in ID layout etc.

                               

                              Now I'm figuring out illustrators export ways to have somehow the "same" kind of export possibility.

                               

                              does this make sence to you?

                              • 12. Re: Which one: Crop Area CS3,multiple artboards CS4, Masking
                                Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                                The true solution is to forget about FreeHand and move on that is the best advice I can give you about what other application to use in it' place is a decision you have to make but at some point you will have to move on.

                                 

                                I have one more thought about his is that it might be less painful to do it now rather than in the future when it might not be possible at all.

                                 

                                right now you can still open your FH documents in FH if need be, as you still have equipment that it will run on.That might not be the case in three or four years. We get users here on the forum that have nightmare stories about files they haven't used for over a decade and now can't open them, why they don't regularly update their files is a mystery.

                                 

                                In your business maps have to be updated regularly and it would be prudent for you to accept the fact as uncomfortable as it might be it could be a lot worse if the files no longer functioned at some point.

                                 

                                To me this makes sense.

                                 

                                Also if you ask a specific question about how to do something there might be other users who can come to your assistance other than just me
                                and you will benefit from a community of knowledge and not that of just one user. On this forum the conference of users ideas are the power
                                and a certain amount of competitiveness makes for a better knowledge base.

                                 

                                So if you can ask the question so others can see how it might relate to a technique they se for their own work you will have more responses.

                                But keep in mind though FH users on this forum often make a big noise they d not necessarily have the knowledge about doing things in Illustrator required to make a transition and the Illustrator users might not have any knowledge of FH, so when you reference a feature as like FH has though to you it has meaning to them it might just as well be hot air.

                                • 13. Re: Which one: Crop Area CS3,multiple artboards CS4, Masking
                                  Cito-plan Level 1

                                  The true solution is to forget about FreeHand and move on

                                  I want to move on! that's why i'm working  in illustrator at this very time trying to find to right way for doing things!

                                   

                                  right now you can still open your FH documents in FH if need be, as you still have equipment that it will run on.That might not be the case in three or four years.

                                  Also true, but again that's why...

                                   

                                   

                                  Also if you ask a specific question about how to do something there might be other users who can come to your assistance other than just me and you will benefit from a community of knowledge and not that of just one user. On this forum the conference of users ideas are the power and a certain amount of competitiveness makes for a better knowledge base.

                                   

                                  Again, true and that's why i'm working in illustrator opening the freehand files and figure out what's translated well, what''s wrong and how to migrate the old workflow to a new one in illustrator with the tools given me by Adobe!

                                  And yes, going to this forum and look around for solutions, how others trying to get things done and asking questions.

                                   

                                  Finally:

                                  Somehow it seems to me that asking a question and trying to explain how it was done in program A to let people better understand the problem your dealing with isn't alowed.......typing the word Freehand is not done....

                                  It's sad to see that an experienced Illustrator user as you ,as you are, sometimes isn't that patience with an experienced FH user who wants to migrate and just asked for your opinion, an advice and wants to have a discussion about a solution to look if he can do something simular in illustrator so he doesn't have to throw away years of work, but limit it to the "just" a few things he had to do again.

                                  A lot of  tools are used the way they where meant to in the first place, but hey, some of them aren't and give you hidden possibilities, nowhere descriped and only given to you in forums like these.

                                   

                                  Well Goodbeye for now, i will mark this discusion as answered..... and concentrate on my work instead of something else.

                                  • 14. Re: Which one: Crop Area CS3,multiple artboards CS4, Masking
                                    Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                                    The problem is that it is that there is nothing I can do about FH and asking us to learn o be more familiar with a program that will probably never be developed any further than it has is spending energy that will do absolutely nothing for anyone.

                                     

                                    So from your perspective it is impatience but from another perspective it is a very realistic way of making the transition.

                                     

                                    If you see what I mean. If you change your perspective and become an Illustrator user and not a former FH user you have won half the battle, keepin mind for many users Illustrator is not the most intuitive application to learn.

                                     

                                    All you have to do is not expect it to work the same way as FH because it does not work the same way.

                                     

                                    S if you did something in FH and you try it in AI and find it does not work it is expected.If you ask the question directly you will get the answer for how to accomplish what you want, if you ask like FH then the answer might be not forth coming or if from an AI user who does not know how you do itin FH or from a FH user who does not know how to do it in AI.

                                     

                                    But if you simply ask how do I do this then you might get more users pitching in and your answer.

                                     

                                    I can tell you fro some pretty poor behavior on the part of FH users on this forum it is an unpleasant experience to even try to help them.

                                     

                                    I do hope this helps but FH users have so far given little indication that are willing to be even a little civil about and exchange, except for a few do not even bother to thank someone who has helped and rarely admit that they actual were helped.

                                     

                                    So that is the problem you are up against.

                                    • 15. Re: Which one: Crop Area CS3,multiple artboards CS4, Masking
                                      Skullmaker Level 3

                                      Cito-plan,

                                       

                                      Do not worry about Wade. Just give him a bag of pop-corn and he will happy. He gets offended if you say that there is something wrong with his beloved CS4 version.

                                       

                                      The program have serious bugs but he thinks is part of the CS4 charm.

                                       

                                      A lot of users have complaint about this backward step from CS3. You can do a little research on this forum and you will find plenty of people unhappy with Adobe and CS4's useless Crop Tool.

                                       

                                      I think Adobe is going from bad to worse. With no updates for 4 years!.

                                       

                                      A lot of people can hear other people opinion without getting offended. But Wade is not one of those people. Either you think like him or you are dead wrong and should apologize to him.

                                       

                                      So do not worry, You are free to express your opinion even when other people get scare.

                                      • 16. Re: Which one: Crop Area CS3,multiple artboards CS4, Masking
                                        Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                                        Now Hans I have warned you about the abusive behavior and I am a patient person, but making light of the opportunity of a free bag of pop corn is going too far.

                                         

                                        This is a serious matter and I am afraid this has to be reported.

                                         

                                        If this ruins my chances for a free bag of pop corn…you will pay for ths!