11 Replies Latest reply on Feb 18, 2010 3:06 PM by Barry needs help

    Cross disolve problems with PP and AE

    Barry needs help Level 1

      I am having a huge problem with one aspect of CS4 in transition.  I know someone has experienced this and will help.  I have CS4 production premium. Here is the order that my problem occurs 1. I import green screen videos in PP.  2. I put in the timeline, right click, select “replace with After Effects Composition” 3. I am now in AE and I use Keylight 1.2 for the green screening keying (it works great).  Instantly, the effects show up in PP and the video name is now different in the time line. 4. I want to add a cross dissolve transition between videos and when I do, I get an error that says “insufficient media.  This transition will contain repeated frames”.  The cross dissolve now has different lines through it in the timeline.    5. I render it and it has some choppiness to it.  . 6. I close out AE and save as directed.  Attached is a screen shot of  the error message and the timeline.  Notice the different lines in the cross dissolve in the video two line (processed through AE) and the cross dissolve on the video 4 line which has slides and the transitions work just fine.  Clearly something is wrong in the video transition. Help? thxssssssssssssss Barry Rhein

        • 1. Re: Cross disolve problems with PP and AE
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Your media has insufficient handles. Start reading on handles in the manual or help file.

          • 2. Re: Cross disolve problems with PP and AE
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            Here are two hints to get you started with Handles. The concept, in an NLE, like PrPro, can be a bit abstract at first. Anyone, who grew up in film, or on an A-B roll editing program has it right in front of them. Once you get the concept down, it will become second nature:

            Handles_01.jpg

            Handles_02.jpg

             

            Good luck, and good reading,

             

            Hunt

             

            [Edit] Oops, Harm beat me to it - took longer to find those images...

             

            Message was edited by: Bill Hunt - Added [Edit]

            • 3. Re: Cross disolve problems with PP and AE
              Colin Brougham Level 6

              Harm and Bill have offered up the "what," but not the "why" it happens in your case, and the "how" to deal with it.

               

              When you initiate the "Replace with AE Comp" command on a clip, AE creates a comp that is exactly the same duration as the original clip, and imports the whole source clip into your AE project. When you're working in AE, you have all the frames before the in point and after the out point of your source clip available. You can slip the frames forward and backward, and you'll always have playable frames during the entire duration of your comp.

               

              However, it's this comp's duration that creates the problem in PPro because PPro can't access frames from AE that are outside of the comp's duration. As far as PPro is concerned, that AE comp is exactly as long as it is--sounds obvious, I realize, but it's a departure from how video clips work in PPro.

               

              For example, if you're using 5 seconds of a 15 second clip in PPro, and replace the clip instance with an AE comp, the duration of that comp is 15 seconds. In AE, the whole source clip comes in, and you have all 15 seconds to play with. But back in PPro, that AE comp is only 5 seconds. That's the reason that you get the "insufficient media" error when you try to create a transition--there truly is not enough media to create that transition.

               

              To get around this, you need to make your comp longer in AE. You can change the composition's settings and duration in AE, but beware: a lot of times this will make PPro angry and cause it to crash. It does not like it too much when the duration of Dynamic Linked comps are changed. Try it, with this in mind.

               

              Another, perhaps better option, is to just start in PPro with handles--drag out some extra frames at the head and tail of your clip before you replace it with an AE comp. Of course, if you have your clip already edited into a sequence and precisely timed and stacked, this might be difficult to do, but just create an additional, empty track that you can drag your clip into before you trim it out. Send it to AE, and then you can trim the DL'ed comp to fit back into the gap you left in the original track. Now, you'll have ample additional frames to create your transition.

              • 4. Re: Cross disolve problems with PP and AE
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                Good points Colin and very useful. Now, the OP knows the "why," and you have directly addressed the "how."

                 

                Appreciated,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: Cross disolve problems with PP and AE
                  Barry needs help Level 1

                  Colin,

                  Thanks for a GREAT explaination.  If i know that most of my transitions are .5 of a second (12 frames) would it make sense to cut it up in PP with the additionall 12 frames and then send it to AE?  If so, will AE only use the extra 12 frames as part of it's keying?  I could bring the video back in PP then i could overlap the two videos by 24 frames and make my transition 24 frames and it should work?  thoughts?

                  • 6. Re: Cross disolve problems with PP and AE
                    shooternz Level 6

                    In most edit and shoot processes..its worth shooting or creating more footage than you think you need.

                     

                    So always  take more into AEFX for example or keep the camera running a little longer ... etc...

                     

                    I might add.   When you make an edit decision always think about it as a straight cut at that point.  If you are thinking that a cross dssolve will be used, check the footage either side of the straight cut because: 

                     

                    1. You need the footage to make the transition with.

                     

                    2. That footage should also look good because its going to be seen.

                     

                    BTW. YOu might like to consider making an intermediate in AEFX.

                     

                    This means exporting the footage as a unique  media clip that you can then easily edit in PPRO without the hassle of D/Link or editing the Composition.

                    • 7. Re: Cross disolve problems with PP and AE
                      Barry needs help Level 1

                      Thanks.  in an ideal world.  i would do the keylight green screen keying in AE.  fine a way to save it as a transparant avi with the green screen done. and then inport to pro.  thoughts?  is this possible?

                       

                      thxs

                      • 8. Re: Cross disolve problems with PP and AE
                        shooternz Level 6

                        Thats easy enough. Export from AEFX as an avi with alpha.

                         

                        Keep in mind that you will need to resolve how to do cross dissolves with this intermediate as well as the BG as a separate layer.  Adds a little additional complexity.

                        • 9. Re: Cross disolve problems with PP and AE
                          Colin Brougham Level 6

                          Is your project just green screen footage? If so, why not just select all your clips and replace them with an AE comp, instead of just individual clips? If you add cross dissolves in Premiere before doing this, your clips will be sent to AE with overlapping handles--cross dissolves are supposed to be preserved via opacity keyframes, but this doesn't seem to always work. Nevertheless, you can select all of those clips in the AE comp and go to Animation > Keyframe Assistant > Sequence Layers. In the dialog that appears, be sure Overlap is checked, set your duration to 1 second (or however long your dissolves were in PPro), and set Transition to "Dissolve Front Layer". Opacity keyframes will be added to each layer's outgoing handle to dissolve into the underlying layer, replicating the original dissolves. Now you can do your keying, and the changes will be updated in PPro.

                           

                          The one issue with this process is that, when you use the "Replace with AE comp" command in PPro, your clips in your sequence are truly replaced; you won't have access to your original edit any more, so any timing tweaks would have to be done in AE. You can combat this in a couple of ways. One way is to do your edit in PPro, and then duplicate your sequence so you have a backup; do the "Replace" on just one of those sequences. Another way is to do the Replace, which will send all your clips to AE, but then immediately Undo it in PPro. Your comp will still be created in AE, but the dynamically linked version will disappear from PPro, leaving you with your original edit. You can then use the Dynamic Link import to bring your comp into PPro, preserving your edit AND creating the AE comp.

                           

                          Alternatively, you can simply copy your sequence from your PPro project panel, go to AE, and paste into the AE project panel; your comp will be created, your assets will be imported, and then you just need to Dynamic Link the AE comp into PPro.

                           

                          Alternatively yet again, you can import a PPro project or sequence into AE (just go to File > Import > Adobe Premiere Pro Project); an AE comp will be created and all assets will be imported and placed in the project and comp. Again, you'd have to DL the comp to PPro... or, you could do as Craig suggested and render out an AVI/MOV with an alpha channel, and import that back into PPro for final compositing. You could also import your background materials into AE, and do your compositing there, and then render out a final, non-alpha AVI. As you can tell, there are more than a few options!

                          • 10. Re: Cross disolve problems with PP and AE
                            Barry needs help Level 1

                            thanks for your help.  works great!

                            • 11. Re: Cross disolve problems with PP and AE
                              Barry needs help Level 1

                              thxsssssssssssss much!!!!!!!!!