1 2 3 Previous Next 80 Replies Latest reply on Mar 11, 2010 5:28 AM by Steve Grisetti

    Unbelievable struggle

    whereisthemanual Level 1

      I have never used such a user-hostile program, and I have software people writing software under me. It is insane that there is no manual or tutorial online to cover even the most basic operations such an importing. And no info on how it works either, does importing copy files filling your hard drive?

       

      So here's my laundry list:

      1.No manual (fire the product manager for that one, totally unacceptable in ANY business)

      2.Download trial is limited AND keeps that huge banner across center of screen (anything else is acceptable but center of screen!)

      3.Creation is painfully slow with no % complete or estimation of time (or date) of completion

      4.No estimate of disk percent used, helps a lot in editing

      5.No help menues

      6.Almost juvinile menues for DVDs..What about business users? hearts and balloons don't hack it guys and ladies

      7.chapters come up as scenes(accessible through a scene button), not selectable from front page

      8.Looping menu selection audio can make you suicidal (cummon, not at all professional)

      9.Name of disk came up on scene select page

      10.scene selector is wierd random dots on scene, not hi-light box around scene

       

      finally, do you guys read amazon product reviews? They TRASH this product, as compared with competition.

       

      I am a seasoned CAD and VIDEO person, this is really painful software to use, intended for kids birthday parties and in no way for adult use creating business videos. I spent a whole day struggling to get things to work, crashed several times, and yes, I exceed the hardware requirements.

       

      Bottom line, I came to Adobe because you are a class act....in TEXT file management, ie PDF files. I figured, for professional BUSINESS use, you would run circles around the competition. I was SO wrong.

       

      I have never written a letter like this and only do it after spending about $300 of my time trying to run a sub $100 demo program.

      Someone should be publicly flogged at Adobe for this one!

      You give me no choice but to go to the competition.

       

      I am sure you will point out my production errors for some of above, thats good but a manual would have prevented it.

      I imagine this will not be posted, or immediately taken down for "bad form", I don't think it is. My time has real value and you should learn from this, fix these problems and BEG your customers to try FREE Beta packages until it works, or pull the product.

        • 1. Re: Unbelievable struggle
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          You might want to take a look at Muvipix. There are many additional Menus there, along with Steve Grisetti's Learning Series for PrE, specifically, plus more on other aspects of video production. He also has a series of books that do replace that "missing manual." It is worth a bit of time looking there, as much additional information and Functional Content is available.

           

          I do agree that the lack of a manual is a mistake, but it is one that too many software companies are making nowadays. For my CS2 Production Studio, I had to buy the series of manuals from Adobe for US$60. In the end, that was a more than fair price, but as I came from a time, when software companies had great manuals, a departure for me.

           

          Adobe chose to depart from the concept that they use for the trial in PrPro. In it, there is zero support for anything MPEG. There are no banners, but you still only get 30 days, and nothing MPEG. With PrE, you get MPEG, 30 days and a banner, which can be removed, should one purchase the paid version. The mechanics are covered in the FAQ's to the right of the main page. Some rail at the lack of MPEG in PrPro, and would be glad to have banners. Others rail at the banners and would be glad to have functions disabled. There is no perfect solution.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: Unbelievable struggle
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            Another observation, that I must share with you - we are all but users. None of us works for Adobe. There is a Contact link at the top of all pages here, and you need to address your issues with Adobe.

             

            I am a seasoned CAD and VIDEO person, this is really painful software to use, intended for kids birthday parties and in no way for adult use creating business videos. I spent a whole day struggling to get things to work, crashed several times, and yes, I exceed the hardware requirements Bottom line, I came to Adobe because you are a class act....in TEXT file management, ie PDF files. I figured, for professional BUSINESS use, you would run circles around the competition. I was SO wrong.

            This program is targeted to the hobbyist, and not to the video professional. That is what PrPro is designed to do. If you get the trial of that program, just be prepared to not be able to test anything MPEG. It comes with much more business-related Functional Content with Encore, which is bundled with PrPro in the full-paid version.

             

            You are looking at the short-comings of product, designed for the home user, when the professional NLE and Content are just a page, or two over in the Products section of the Web site. This is not the program for you.

             

            Also, you will love Encore, as it is a full-featured authoring program, unlike the rudimentary included DVD/BD function in PrE. That is highly limited, I agree, but is designed to simplify things for the casual user. Encore can do almost everything that the DVD-specs. allow, and with some creativity, much more. To get much better, one needs to move up to Sonic Scenarist, which with all modules for DVD and BD professional authoring is running about US$150,000, but you DO get everything, including the Sony Copy Protection - though you do have buy individual licenses for each production, and last time I looked, those were about US$30K per title.

             

            Good luck,

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: Unbelievable struggle
              whereisthemanual Level 1

              Hi Bill,

              First, I thought this was addressed to Adobe, or at least they would read it, and did not realize they would not see this, so I apologize for the rant.

               

              I need the MPEG files so another program would not work for me, and I have no problem with marking a file as created from a demo version, I fully intended to buy it after seeing it work. A ribbon across the center (through the entire file) after a 2+ hour compile was a real slap in the face. I need to SEE my video! And for what it is worth, unlike a lot of users, I actually DID create a playable disc eventually, albeit childish in format, so 1/4 star for that.

               

              I still have a problem with any company, especially one of Adobe's standing in the professional world, producing a product like this. At least mark it "Exclusively for HOME video creation". And even then, I know a lot of home PC users that wouldn't be able to figure out importing at all. Even I never got the folders figured out for projects, and just bulldozed past that, figuring if the end product was great, I'd go back and try to make it work.. Its just wacky the way it functions, no drag and drop no multifile import (in any usual way. And where did my file names go, forgot that one. Can't even enable them!. And pay for a manual? Maybe for $2000 autocad just because it is SO complex, but not for a home product, that's an insult. Good contextual click-on for help functionality is inherent in consumer software these days, that part I just can't accept.

               

              I will look elsewhere... there is a Sony product that got very high reviews I will try next. I always depend on reviews but just didn't believe them this time, that'll teach me. It's amazing the trouble you can save yourself on just about anything, using Amazon's product reviews. Very easy to pick out the wackos and neophytes, and find the reviews that mean something. This was just the worst disappointment I think I have ever had in software.

               

              Thank you Bill, for the pointers, Adobe should post any and all on their site or better yet link to a library of how-to and lesson files, so nobody gets to the point I have. The videos they DO have are just marketing tools, not really instructional.

              • 4. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                >No manual ... Download trial is limited

                 

                The purchase version has the full manual as a PDF on the media

                 

                Also, I don't have a link handy, but Adobe (owner of Acrobat and originator of PDF) has a link where you may download the PDF

                 

                You will need to look yourself, or maybe someone will come along who has the link, but the PDF is available

                • 5. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                  whereisthemanual Level 1

                  Now that's a good one. The people that are trying out the software don't get instructions, but then if you pay for it you get the critical information needed to run the trialware! Bet that helpssell their product....

                   

                  I tried googling for manuals and only found pay-for manuals, which seemed pretty dumb for a trial software package that seemed to have some other limitations. I would then find out functions I couldn't try. The whole marketing scheme is just beyond belief.

                   

                  Again, if there is a downloadable manual, Adobe should make you trip over it before downloading the trialware. They MUST post this link somewhere prominent.

                   

                  Great help for the next guy. Thanks John

                  • 6. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                    the_wine_snob Level 9
                    And pay for a manual?

                    I do agree with you on this, but I love books, and go way, way back with software, so I feel a bit put-out too. Now, Adobe does not even offer a manual for PrE, and this is a mistake in my, er-r book. That is why the Missing Manual series, and Steve Grisetti's books are so very popular - besides, each is well-written.

                     

                    Now, just in case I might not have stated things adequately, with PrPro, ONLY the trial has MPEG disabled, albeit completely. The full-paid version has everything enabled, plus one does get Encore, the authoring program. It's ONLY the trial, without the MPEG.

                     

                    Why Adobe went in different directions with their two NLE's is only known by the product development and marketing teams. I know why MPEG was disabled in PrPro trial, but not how PrE gets around that - it's a licensing issue with MainConcept. Still, PrE has MPEG, but with the banner. As for the banner, I thought that it was intermittent, and did not realize that it appeared through out the entire Timeline. Though I have used Adobe products for decades, I have never had a trial of any of their programs. The closest was with some programs, that I was invited to beta test, but those were the full betas up to those points in time. What I "know" about trials is just from reading in the fora.

                     

                    One thing to consider - Adobe offers a 30-day, money-back guarantee, so that one can buy, install, use fully for 30 days, and then return for a full credit, if the program does not work, as the user wishes. There are no banners, no disabled MPEG, (Encore w/ PrPro), and no restrictions, other than the 30 days.

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                      Ed.Macke Level 3

                      The help is available online here. In the upper left corner, there is a link to "View Help PDF" where you can view (or save) the help file PDF.

                      • 8. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                        nealeh Level 5

                        It's a fact of modern life that the production costs of printed manuals is far far greater than producing a CD/DVD. Although there WAS a small manual included with PRE7.

                         

                        To get the PDF manual (free) in PRE press F1 (or Help> Adobe Premiere Elements Help). This connects you to the Adobe online help system. At the top left of that screen is a link to the PDF download version (23MB for PRE7).

                         

                        PRE8 help system is at http://help.adobe.com/en_US/PremiereElements/8.0/Win/Using/WS96256bd4ae515969-97c9190120d9 c53f61-7ff6.html

                         

                        The Adobe support section has a few tutorials at http://www.adobe.com/support/premiereelements/

                         

                        Cheers,
                        --
                        Neale
                        Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                        • 9. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          The Adobe support section has a few tutorials at http://www.adobe.com/support/premiereelements/

                           

                          And, as mentioned above, there is a wealth of tutorials, articles, etc., on Muvipix.

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                            whereisthemanual Level 1

                            OK all, I really do appreciate all the replies, and I am willing to try again using all of your suggestions, and perhaps a good night's sleep. This, after trying Sony's Movie Studio 9 demo...They have manuals ....and pretty significant complexity and their share of glitches too. I'm in the middle of a 5 hour render there and couldn't get their editing demo version to connect to their DVD mastering demo. Says it's not installed. I can't win. Again, I'm not looking for something for nothing. I am happy to pay for it but I do not have a lot of money to throw at something that just won't work.

                             

                            All I want to do is create a few video DVDs with decent looking menus up front, selecting any one of 6 or 8 chapters to play. I really can't have some hokey-looking interface though. I will read all the links you people kindly provided me tonight.

                             

                            So my almost critical first questions are,

                            1. is there a professional DVD chapter menu available for the front screen? the demo shows one that might be ok, but you cant select it for some odd reason.Anything without hearts and flowerd and balloons. Absolutely bland selectable boxes with first frames of the chapters would be GREAT.

                            2. and can I put my own looping music, or at least kill that horrid demo audio loop in the DVD menu?

                             

                            I will leave with that, go have dinner then read the postings, links and whatever they have for a manual...all of it.

                             

                            Thanks, gang

                            Don

                            • 11. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              Don,

                               

                              Remember that I do not know the trials for any Adobe software, so take this with a grain of salt.

                               

                              When PrE is fully installed, one should have quite a few Menus to choose from, in many different genre. If you only see a few, then it is likely that you did not install the full compliment of Functional Content, Adobe's term for the full Library, plus things like Themes, etc. This is a separate download file, and must be installed after the program download file. This is the FAQ Entry for PrE 7, but should be identical for PrE 8. Also take a look at the additional Menus on Muvipix. There are also original music, and motion backgrounds too.

                               

                              As of altering the Audio in the Menus, that is possible, and quite easy. One is limited to 30 sec. in PrE (Adobe Encore allows much longer Menu Loops, but then the user has usually chosen by about 30-40 sec.). You will choose Menu Audio to match the Duration of any Motion Video, and the Menu will Loop on the Duration of the Video, "taking the Audio" along with it. This ARTICLE will give you some tips.

                               

                              Good luck,

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                Just looked at my PrE 4, and there were 96 Menus. I think that PrE 8 has more, though some might have been omitted.

                                 

                                Also, if you choose the General>Generic One Menu, you can pretty much create what you want, within the limitations of the Menu Sets in PrE. You can also alter the Background image, and Motion AV Asset for most of the rest.

                                 

                                Because PrE uses a strict, semi-automatic authoring scheme, creating true "custom" Menus is a bit more work. There are a ton of special considerations and naming conventions, that must be honored. It's not as easy as creating them in Photoshop for Encore, where everything is done by hand. Even though I do this on occasion, I still need to have one of the PrE DVD Templates open for reference. For Encore, I do it all in my sleep.

                                 

                                Good luck,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                  whereisthemanual Level 1

                                  One more quickie,Bill

                                   

                                  any idea which will perform better (since you obviously run this software a lot)?

                                  under windows XP pro or vista home premium? roughly similar ram and dual-core processors

                                   

                                  Seems like EVERYTHING runs faster under XP pro and loaded this demo on the vista machine. I dont know what it is about vista but every once in a while, things seem to freeze for a minute, then continue on their merry way. I have looked at what's running and no clues.. Could be Norton AV or some other background program but I try to keep my machines free of other garbage that does that.

                                   

                                  I have tried to convince myself unsuccessfully that vista is ok since it came out, and I just dont like it....especially searches for files and overall speed.

                                   

                                  Anyway going off to read ;-)

                                  Don

                                  • 14. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    Don,

                                     

                                    I cannot help much, as I am still on XP-Pro on both my laptop (had to pay extra for my setup and XP vs Vista), and workstation. I have never known Vista, but from my reading, I did not miss much. Now, I will move up to Win7-64 in the future, with a new workstation, and probably CS5, plus SP-1 for that OS.

                                     

                                    Some of the folk, who broke with a great OS (XP), will have to tell you. I cannot. Vista is a "banned word" in our studio. My wife has it on her laptop, but I just tell her to call IT, as I have no clue. So far, she's bought that.

                                     

                                    Good luck, and wish that I could help,

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                      Ed.Macke Level 3

                                      In broad strokes, Vista needs more RAM and CPU to perform equivalent chores as XP. But, on the other hand, Vista PCs are usually newer and better equipped, so it's probably a wash.


                                      For reference, I am running PRE7 with XP Pro with 2 GB RAM and performance is fine.


                                      However, I think more important than which OS you're using will be some of the following (I'm sure there are more, but these come to mind):

                                      a) Speed and size of your hard drives (ideally, 7200+ RPM SATA drives with plenty 'o free space)

                                      b) Type of media you're editing (PRE loves DV-AVI - miniDV imported via FireWire)

                                      c) What else is running (Windows indexing comes to mind, as does anti-virus/anti-spyware)

                                      d) Video settings and drivers (most recent video drivers, hardware acceleration, etc.)


                                      There are several threads on this forum related to setting up your PC for maximum video editing performance. I don't have the links handy - maybe in the FAQ section?

                                       

                                      FWIW, I have Vista on both of my kids laptops and hate it.... constant frustration.

                                      • 16. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                                        Well stated Ed.

                                         

                                        Hunt

                                        • 17. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                          whereisthemanual Level 1

                                          last night I downloaded the PDF manual Neale pointed to...313 pages so no shortage of reading material. I also downloaded the demo version to another machine with xp. Both are fast core2 machines with slow drives 2 gig of ram andNAV, which I may disable when off-network. But I intend to run the same file on both and time them. I am stuck with MOV camera input mixed with some AVI animations I created, which I will do voiceover on. So mostly conversion time from hi-res mov to lower res dvd will be the workload.

                                           

                                          The sony product I tried you could see the frame by frame rendering as it occurred, really slow, but on yet another machine a very fast P4 with hyperthreading a big fast drive and a lot of ram. May try that one too, what the heck, I have no idea if the dual cores really makes that much difference.

                                           

                                          So I am assuming by your feedback that the menu thing is resolved in the purchased version and I will just try my various machines to figure out the one to use, and try to empty the drive. If its one of the 2core ones with the lesser specs, I can upgrade those parts.

                                          Off to the dentist (not sure which is worse, that or vista) Thanks all, I will be back in a day with my results!

                                           

                                          Oh yes, the Adobe download page which pointed to Elements 8 ALSO had Photoshop Elements 8 on it, so I downloaded that too.(THIS time, I kept the downloads so I can try them on different machines!)

                                           

                                          Why did they point to a page to download BOTH? Do they work together and maybe some of the functionality I struggled with like menus was because I didn't have photoshop elements 8 and only premiere elements 8?

                                           

                                          Thanks again, Don

                                          • 18. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                            nealeh Level 5

                                            I'm one of the very few who love Vista! After a week using it I did not wish to get back to XP. I originally ran PRE7 on 32-bit Vista Ultimate without problem and I'm now running on 64-bit Windows 7 Ultimate and it works like a dream.

                                             

                                            Cheers,
                                            --
                                            Neale
                                            Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                            • 19. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                              Ed.Macke Level 3

                                              I've always heard rumors that Vista-loving people existed... I've just never met one until now!

                                               

                                              Completely kidding!

                                              • 20. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                                Ed.Macke Level 3
                                                with slow drives... stuck with MOV camera input

                                                 

                                                Eek. Others may chime in, but it sounds like you might be set up for a disappointing experience in PRE.


                                                Re: the slow drives... I have (2) 500GB SATA II drives in my current PC. When I recently retired my older, backup PC, I saved the 80GB 5000RPM EIDE drive and put it into my current box. I had this brilliant idea to use it as a temp drive for PRE. Big mistake! I changed my cache location from one of the SATA drives to the EIDE drive and it was like I had poured molasses in my PC. PRE came to a grinding halt. Rendering that used to be almost instantaneous was now taking 5 or 10 seconds. Moral of story: drive speed makes a HUGE difference!

                                                 

                                                Also, I've always edited DV-AVI, but I've heard tales of people trying to edit compressed formats.... You could try, but if you run into problems, you might want to look into converting the MOV file(s) into DV-AVI files, and then editing the DV-AVI files.

                                                 

                                                So I am assuming by your feedback that the menu thing is resolved in the purchased version

                                                AFAIK, the purchased version is exactly the same as the trial version, except for the banner?

                                                 

                                                Do you mean the DVD menus? If it helps, PRE does have some (limited) DVD menu editing capability - e.g. make the thumbnails static pictures or movies, remove and change backgrounds, change or remove the audio loop, or even to not have a menu at all. IMO, the DVD menu editing functionality is not exactly PRE's strong suit, but you might be able to tweak the canned menus to something you like.


                                                Also, there are web sites (some are free, some are pay) that have additional templates available  that might work for you (muvipix.com is one of them).

                                                 

                                                Off to the dentist (not sure which is worse, that or vista)

                                                Heh. That made me chuckle!

                                                • 21. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                  So I am assuming by your feedback that the menu thing is resolved in the purchased version and I will just try my various machines to figure out the one to use, and try to empty the drive. If its one of the 2core ones with the lesser specs, I can upgrade those parts.

                                                   

                                                  What problems are you having with Menus? If you are lacking the full set of Functional Content, then you still need to either download, or just install the second file, which contains the additional Functional Content. The trial, and the full-version, are the same, except for the banner on Export/Share.

                                                   

                                                  This FAQ Entry tells about the additional Functional Content, and how to install it. While it's for PrE 7, everything, save maybe the file name, will be the same for PrE 8.

                                                   

                                                  Hope that this helps,

                                                   

                                                  Hunt

                                                  • 22. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                                    whereisthemanual Level 1

                                                    Thanks, Bill I did not see that option to download additional content. Boy, Adobe sure writes HUGE software. I think they and Microsoft have an interest in the hard drive AND microprocessor industries they constantly push.

                                                     

                                                    I'm comfortable with some of it now, though the speed (clearly a function of my various PCs) is a bit of a pain. They do talk about over-night renderings, Deja Vu from the good old days of doing gate array (semi-custom chips) compilations on a 386-based machine, only to discover a hiccup happened at 4am and you have to start over.

                                                     

                                                    This is not such a big deal for me, as I am creating a few demo disks for Patent-pending inventions of mine. I will spend more time creating the content than the disc. The chapters show different features of the intellectual property, marketing plan, product line, manufacturing costs, etc, to a prospective licensee or IP buyer. This is why the menu (perhaps resolved by the huge add-on download in-progress) is important. Must be classy. These discs are going to the legal departments of some very large corporations. And till I sell one, I must do it all..... Though, having had my own business before, that's part of the fun. No two days the same!

                                                     

                                                    I really do appreciate the input from you and the others. It is pretty rare to find a group this responsive, and your seeming dedication to the product (and tolerance for irate newbies) is the ONLY thing that got me to give it a second chance. Thank you all.

                                                     

                                                    I have to go buy some new hardware too, I'm afraid....enhance what I have for now. Can't really afford a new machine right now, though looking at some consulting work that could help with that. I don't want to close the thread yet, as I am sure I'll be back. I think this will be a great one for anyone who went where I did (off the deep end), and now sees the light, albeit still at the end of a tunnel.

                                                    Cheers,

                                                    Don

                                                    • 23. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                                      the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                      This is why the menu (perhaps resolved by the huge add-on download in-progress) is important. Must be classy. These discs are going to the legal departments of some very large corporations.

                                                       

                                                      Hey, a few balloons might bring some levity to the attorneys in their ivory tower...

                                                       

                                                      The Functional Content is a large file. There are the PSD's, the PNG's (the little display thumbnails in the Library), Video and Audio Assets, plus the Themes (called Instant Movies in some versions). I would also think that there might be more Transitions and Presets, though these are probably pretty small.

                                                       

                                                      I hope that there is useful content for your application, in PrE's additional materials. Because of the perceived target market, I feel that the Menus are loaded towards the hobbyist, doing DVD's for the family. Still, there are some that are more business related.

                                                       

                                                      Because of the nature of the semi-automatic authoring in PrE, creating true custom Menu Sets is not that easy a proposition. There are many pitfalls, even for a skilled Photoshop artist, who does Menus every day for Encore. For that functionality alone, I'd keep the PrPro Production Studio (name changes per version, but it contains PrPro, Encore, Photoshop, Illustrator and AfterEffects) in the back of my mind, after that first big sale. The ability to construct my DVD, or BD, exactly as I want, and with Assets that I can build from scratch, is a great feature of Encore. I'd recommend Sony's DVD Architect as a full-featured authoring application, but I have found that it does not accept the PSD Menu files, like Encore. I do not know what Functional Content comes with it, nor do I know how easy, or difficult, it might be to construct Menus from the ground up, with whatever their Menu format is.

                                                       

                                                      Also, do check out some of the PrE Menu Sets on Muvipix. I do not recall the full array, but some of the "abstract" ones might work well in a situation, like yours. One can either buy them individually, or download and use them for "free," with a subscription. I have several other sources for Menus, but they are all designed to work in Encore, and to modify them for PrE would take some real work and some real care.

                                                       

                                                      Last, remember that you can use the Generic One (think that name's the same in PrE 8), and provide your own graphic image, Audio and even Video, plus one can change out the Background in many, if not all, of the others, should their general structure suit your needs - just put in an abstract image of your invention, ghosted back a bit to allow for readability - no more balloons!

                                                       

                                                      Most of all, good luck with your campaign - and think about PrPro & Encore for next year.

                                                       

                                                      Hunt

                                                      • 24. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                        Don,

                                                         

                                                        Why did they point to a page to download BOTH? Do they work together and maybe some of the functionality I struggled with like menus was because I didn't have photoshop elements 8 and only premiere elements 8?

                                                        Sorry, I did not see this question. The answer is yes, they work together for many functions, and are often sold as a bundle. While not exactly the Dynamic Linking from PrPro, Encore and AfterEffects, they do talk to each other in many ways, and compliment each other nicely. As I have the full-version of Photoshop, I have never looked closely at PSE, but it seems to be a very strong program, and at a very good price. If I did more work in PrE, I would pick it up, just to simplify things a bit. As it is, PS works so well, and is my "old friend," I never think about PSE.

                                                         

                                                        Considering what your Project entails, I could well see using PSE to create images for your Menu Sets.

                                                         

                                                        Do take a look at PSE too.

                                                         

                                                        Good luck,

                                                         

                                                        Hunt

                                                        • 25. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                                          whereisthemanual Level 1

                                                          OK, all,

                                                           

                                                          I have downloaded the addon file (adobe's server is slower than my PCs, took 4 + hours for 3.5+ Gig), and installed it. Lots of good stuff in there which will take forever to learn, but menu problem resolved. Several decent or at least modifiable options, so that's fixed. Unfortunately I had a crash, in menu editing and submitted a detailed crash report. Not sure yet what I lost. I think It's time to buy the product and get rid of the banner, order a bigger hard drive for my vista (sigh) laptop, as for now it appears to be the fastest machine. DRAT, I wish I had a dual core desktop because laptops run too hot to be reliable, but for now, that's life.

                                                           

                                                          I am going to rate the answers if I can, several are "correct" and very helpful. so don't know if I can select more than one. I see that Bill has answered an insane number of questions on this forum (sure you dont work for Adobe?) and may have an in with the powers that be. Bill, if you do, please get someone to take the info from this thread, put in one place where every trial or purchase user MUST trip over it. This is all critical information, and adobe has really dropped the ball, causing all those horrible reviews, many of which could be avoided. Bad business planning all around for such a powerful company.

                                                           

                                                          You guys are great.

                                                          Bill, I wish I had your email. If you care to share it, I have a dummy address I turn on just for this purpose, then turn off again. It is blipityblip at aol dot com Yeah, ridiculous name, but I only use it to transfer contacts to my real name and websites, which would give you some perspective on what I'm up to. Either way, it has been a pleasure working with all of you.Thanks a lot!

                                                           

                                                          Uh Oh, One last question, can I install my purchased version on both my desktop and laptop, or does adobe prevent that? I work on both, and really need that....

                                                          Best-

                                                          Don

                                                          • 26. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                            Don,

                                                             

                                                            Just a couple of thoughts:

                                                             

                                                            First - no, not an employee, and probably the only "investment" in Adobe would be through some mutual fund. I'm just a happy user for decades, going back to the very first day that PS hit the PC with ver. 2.5. I think my old S/N was 000-00-003.

                                                             

                                                            As for editing on a laptop - that is a tough call. About 3 years ago, my hot-rod Toshiba died. As of the date of purchase, it was as big and fast as I could buy, and I stuffed it with RAM and added a second HDD, where the multi-drive came. I just used FW external burners with it. I went looking for a replacement, and after a ton of research, hit on an extreme gaming laptop, from Sager. I had gotten recs. on it from several Adobe PrPro users, whose words, I highly respected. Sager worked with me to get 3x 200GB SATA II 7200 RPM HDD's, 4 GB RAM, Core2 Quad processor, and an nVidia GeForce 8800m GTX 512 card. Unlike all other companies, they loaded up XP-Pro (never did go Vista), and it has been a wonderful machine. Because I migrate Projects between it and the workstation, I use FW-800 (IEEE-1394b) externals, that contain everything in the Projects. Each has the same drive letter assigned in the OS of both the laptop and the workstation, so Z:\ is always Z:\ on both machines. These have proved great, keep my internals free for the OS, programs and Page File, and are adequately fast. If I were starting from scratch, I would go with eSATA externals. One will need either an eSATA, or a FW-800 card, and my Sager has an ExpressCard slot, that I use for this. If I were looking at editing from a laptop, and was not already heavily invested in the FW-800 drives, I'd get a multi-chip eSATA ExpressCard, and a couple of eSATA externals. For me, the 1 - 2 GB units are large enough to handle several very large Projects with COPIES of all Assets, the Scratch Disks, the Export files, and everything needed for the Project. The speed is very good, but also remember that I only am working on SD Projects, not HD, or AVCHD.

                                                             

                                                            When you purchase, you are allowed to install onto two personal computers (or one work, and one personal computer), with the only catch being that you are working on only one at the same time. Since PrE does not use the Activation method, that PrPro does, I'd guess that Adobe is a bit more lenient on the "not using two copies at once," but it IS part of the EULA. Just a thought there.

                                                             

                                                            Good luck, and hope that this helps,

                                                             

                                                            Hunt

                                                            • 27. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                                              whereisthemanual Level 1

                                                              The questions never stop, a quickie

                                                              I am converting some .aiff apple format audio voiceover files to maybe wav format,

                                                              Is that the best choice and whats the best sample rate for editing and overlays?

                                                               

                                                              I have used fairstars to convert and cool-edit to edit wavs for years and am very adept at audio editing. I know ther are better choices but have to limit the number of new programs I must learn to get this particular job donejob done!

                                                              Thanks

                                                              Don

                                                              • 28. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                I use Apple's QT Pro (US$29 upgrade/unlock) to do this sort of conversion, and yes, WAV (Uncompressed - often called PCM) at 48KHz 16-bit for the Sample-rate and Bit-depth. Those will then Import perfectly and can be edited fine. There is nothing to be gained by using any other settings, formats of CODEC's.

                                                                 

                                                                Hope that this helps,

                                                                 

                                                                Hunt

                                                                 

                                                                BTW - CoolEdit Pro was bought out by Adobe, and is now Adobe Audition (up to ver. 3.0 now). That is my main audio-editing app. I do not know Fairstars, sorry.

                                                                • 29. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                                                  whereisthemanual Level 1

                                                                  Thanks Bill,

                                                                   

                                                                  So I must be living right this week!

                                                                   

                                                                  Hooked up with a good lawyer this week, a really nice guy (yeah I know, they DO exist!)

                                                                  Having lunch with a potential employer with venture connections (second meeting)

                                                                  First grandchild on the way..a girl

                                                                   

                                                                  And just when I thought things couldn't be better.....

                                                                         I just received an "Amazon special" email, PE8 for $76.99, w/$20 rebate =$56.99, free shipping, cant beat that....Bought it

                                                                   

                                                                  So now I have crossed over to your side (minus the cool fast hardware and a ton of experience).

                                                                   

                                                                  Thanks for the audio info, I will convert the files right now and switch to legal work for a couple days.

                                                                   

                                                                  I hate to close the thread, I see you didn't use the email link to me, if you don't by tonight I will close it again.

                                                                  Your choice, of course. Thanks

                                                                  Cheers,

                                                                  Don

                                                                  • 30. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                    Don,

                                                                     

                                                                    You have me at a disadvantage. I am not sure what e-mail link you are referring to.

                                                                     

                                                                    As the OP, only you can determine that a question has been answered. You should have a little panel, that the respondents do not have. Only a MODcan close, or lock a thread. However, that is not likely to happen, as everyone was wonderfully civil and we had some good, hopefully useful discussions. Now, that discussion is reason enough to keep the threads on the forum, answered or not. There are a couple of reasons for people to come here. The most obvious is to ask questions and get answers. Next, people come here to see if their questions have been answered (this is the main reason for keeping a thread on the forum) and last people come here in hopes that they can help answer others questions - possibly gaining some good knowledge along the way. That last reason is why I come here. A good day is when I can help someone edit better, primarily with Adobe software, and a great day is when I succeed and also learn something new in the process.

                                                                     

                                                                    I hope that all goes well, and do urge you to look over the FAQ's sub-forum for tips on PrE 8 (there are some things that might need to be addressed), and also tips on tweaking the OS, the operating environment, and similar. Along with that, the Tips & Tricks sub-forum has tons of articles that might prove very useful, even before you begin working in PrE. Many of those will at least get you pointed in the correct direction.

                                                                     

                                                                    Good luck,

                                                                     

                                                                    Hunt

                                                                    • 31. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                                                      whereisthemanual Level 1

                                                                      To clarify....Back a couple of comms, I said I have a dummy email address which I use for such reasons as establishing email contacts in a forum.

                                                                      It is (ridiculous, I know)         blipityblip at aol dot com

                                                                      and if you wished to know more about my endeavors or see my LinkedIn page, you could contact me directly. I won't post that kind of info in a forum.

                                                                       

                                                                      I certainly understand that this isolated email (forum) method of comms gets the job done anonomously, and am fine if you do not wish to contact me, Just offering it as a friendly gesture. I will close that email tonight if unused.

                                                                       

                                                                      And at your suggestion, I will cruise the other threads when I get a chance, and probably start using PE8 intensely next week when I receive it.

                                                                       

                                                                      Regards,

                                                                      Don

                                                                      • 32. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                                                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                        Don,

                                                                         

                                                                        I had missed that link - probably got hung up on one question and skimmed the rest too quickly. Sorry about that.

                                                                         

                                                                        Hunt

                                                                        • 33. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                                                          whereisthemanual Level 1

                                                                          Hi friends,

                                                                          Well, updated the PC (the 3x bigger drive in vista actually speeds it up much more than just the faster disk transfer rate would have implied), and received Photoshop instead of Elements! Grrrr,  so still stuck with the trial version while I get the correct product.I bought elements 8 for dummies too, will report on its value later (my experience is these books, really are designed to get a newbie up and running fast)

                                                                           

                                                                          I do have a question... I installed the add-ons and now have a lot of menus, but all of them put the chapters on a second screen you access with a button. If you just play the resulting disc from the start-up screen, it just plays the compilation of sequential chapters.

                                                                           

                                                                          I was hoping to have the opening page show the chapters for playing one at a time, as chosen by the viewer's preference, as the chapter interests will vary.

                                                                           

                                                                          Any tricks for this? people doing instructional videos must run into this.

                                                                          • 34. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                                                            nealeh Level 5

                                                                            The best you would be able to do in PRE (my remarks based on v7) is to create a single video clip showing a very small amount* of each chapters footage and place this video onto the Main Menu drop zone. This would not however be a clickable video - that is all done through buttons. The sophistication you are looking for would need a dedicated authoring program.

                                                                             

                                                                            *The maximum length of menu video clips is thirty seconds - some PRE templates give less than that

                                                                             

                                                                            Cheers,
                                                                            --
                                                                            Neale
                                                                            Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                                                            • 35. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                                                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                              As Neale points out, the authoring capabilities of PrE are pretty limited. They work fine for most users, and the semi-automatic aspect of authoring makes the simple navigation, well simple.

                                                                               

                                                                              For more control and versatility, I would look at Sony's DVD Architect to do the authoring of intricate DVD-Videos. You will have many more navigational options. My favorite authoring program, Adobe Encore, is only available bundled with PrPro, so it is no longer an option.

                                                                               

                                                                              Good luck,

                                                                               

                                                                              Hunt

                                                                              • 36. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                                                                whereisthemanual Level 1

                                                                                Ah HA!

                                                                                There is always a way....(I have worked in computer graphics for many years and remembered from my past),

                                                                                 

                                                                                If you don't like something on the screen, just make it so small you can't SEE it, and in this case, or select it.

                                                                                 

                                                                                You all have been so helpful I will share MY first trick!

                                                                                 

                                                                                So, for MY application, I am showing video of an invention, for which someone should have read and agreed to a Confidential Disclosure Agreement, or CDA.

                                                                                 

                                                                                I make the "Scene select" button on the front page say "I have read and understood...yada yada..and I agree to it by clicking on this text".

                                                                                 

                                                                                THEN, I make the "play" text a 7 point lower case x (probably could be a smaller choice)

                                                                                Then grab the button box corner and shrink it to tiny.

                                                                                Then drag it to the lower left corner of the frame.

                                                                                When you click on the opening screen, BINGO, INVISIBLE PLAY BUTTON!    (It's there but a really tiny dot.)

                                                                                 

                                                                                So now, the only option is to go to the scene screen, through accepting the CDA....  ;-)

                                                                                 

                                                                                Cheers,

                                                                                Don

                                                                                • 37. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                                  Don,

                                                                                   

                                                                                  It sounds like you have found a way to get what you want and need. Thanks for sharing your solution.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Good luck,

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Hunt

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                                                                    whereisthemanual Level 1

                                                                                    I'm jumping back and forth between creating media and

                                                                                    working with PE8.. 2 questions

                                                                                     

                                                                                    1. Other than the usual customer service option, is there a special place to send bug reportss to for PE8?

                                                                                    I have a few and will undoubtedly uncover more. Once you know the proper way to do things, you don't find the illegal functions anymore so nobody debugs better than a newbie! I debugged the software my own company wrote back in the 80s, just because I didn't write it.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    2. OK so my menu trick works very nicely except....one "scene" plays right into the next. Is there a return" command to put at the end of a scene so playing, for instance scene 2, doesnt play 2 and everything after it?

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I realize that may not have been their intent, but usual DVDs do this corrrectly, only playng the selected scene then returning to the scene menu.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Thanks!

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Note, I just was informed of and installed upgrade 8.0.1, and none of the menus reflect this new rev number, even after power down/up.

                                                                                    • 39. Re: Unbelievable struggle
                                                                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                                      For number 1, this is the Bug Report link.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Good luck,

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Hunt

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