10 Replies Latest reply on Feb 24, 2010 1:09 PM by nealeh

    Weird position shift with multiple layers and cropping

    Kevin Elmore Level 1

      Just when I think I have a grasp of how to use PrE, I get thrown a new curve ball. I am not sure why PrE is doing what it's doing, and I hope someone who knows more than me can explain it to me.

       

      Some details:

       

      I have an AVI file which captures a desktop (at 1920x1200, if that should be important.  I am attempting to blur multiple areas of the screen at different times.  The steps I have taken are:

       

      1. Copy Video 1 and paste it into Video 2 and Video 3.
      2. Apply the Gaussian Blur effect at strength 10.0 to both Video 2 and Video 3.
      3. Apply the Crop effect to Video 2 at L:12% T:11.8% R:76.5% B:86.3%.
      4. Apply the Crop effect to Video 3 at L:12% T:14.1% R:76.5% B:84.2%.

       

      Individually, my copies look great!  When I hide the Gaussian Blur effect in Video 2, then the blur on Video 3 is perfect.  And when I hide the Gaussian Blur effect in Video 3, then the blur on Video 2 is perfect.  When both are visible, that's when things get funny.  For one, both blurred rectangles shift to the far left of the screen.  The vertical placement is correct, but it's as if the left crop was set at 0%.  But, the width looks about right, so it's not the crop that changes, but the entire placement itself.  Furthermore, when the Gaussian Blur effect is turned visible on both tracks, the quality of the surrounding video degrades a little.  The text is not as crisp as the original.

       

      So, my question is mostly:  Does this happen to others?  Is it supposed to?  It doesn't strike me as something that is designed to happen, so I hope to learn more about this strange (to me, anyway) behavior.

       

      Kevin

        • 1. Re: Weird position shift with multiple layers and cropping
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          If you are using an AVI at 1920x1200, you are likely not using an AVI with DV codec, with could explain your buggy behavior.

           

          Open the clip in Windows Media Player then go to File/Properties. This screen will reveal your AVI's video and audio codecs. If your video is other than DV, you'll likely need to convert the video to a more standardized format before you import it into Premiere Elements. Though, at this resolution, I'm not quite sure what to recommend you convert it to!

          • 2. Re: Weird position shift with multiple layers and cropping
            Kevin Elmore Level 1

            I'm afraid you're talking a blind man through a maze, but I'll do my best.

             

            First off, I am not sure I'm using Windows Movie Maker correctly.  I import the video into my collections.  But when I select the video and click on Properties, nothing happens.  I was expecting a dialog box with some information, but I get nothing.  I figured it was a bug (since Properties always gives you something), so I rebooted.  Still the same thing.

             

            I did open up the properties through Explorer.  The Summary tab tells me that the Video compression type is: Uncompressed.  I presume that this is where I would verify that the video was DV.

             

            So, with that assumption, I tried to convert it to DV.  Adding it to the timeline in WMM doesn't seem to help, as when I choose to Save Movie File, nothing happens (much like Properties).  Then I decided to try to Share in PrE.  No matter what I try to change with the AVI settings, I cannot save it as something larger than 720 pixels wide.  I suspect this is what you mean by not knowing what to convert it to?

             

            Kevin

            • 3. Re: Weird position shift with multiple layers and cropping
              nealeh Level 5

              The project settings, not the clip, set the overall dimensions of the project. You will have presumably created a DV project with the dimensions 720 x 480. You would need to create one of the 1080i project presets to better the 720p. The 1080i settings can be found in AVCHD, Hard Disk, or HDV project settings.

               

              Note that the highest resolution available in these settings is 1920 x 1080i. This being the case I suggest that you make your recordings at something that fits into the project settings.

               

              Cheers,
              --
              Neale
              Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

              • 4. Re: Weird position shift with multiple layers and cropping
                Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                My mistake, Kevin. You should open the file in Windows Media Player, not MovieMaker. There you will find the codec under File/Properties.

                • 5. Re: Weird position shift with multiple layers and cropping
                  Kevin Elmore Level 1

                  @Neale - Our recording software automatically outputs the movies to 1920 x 1200, since that is the size most monitors are at.  I have asked our recorder if she can cut 120 pixels off the bottom.  I'm sure the software is capable of doing that, but I have no idea what we're using on that end.

                   

                  @Steve - I got it now.  I have just a dash for the video codec, so it's not DV.

                   

                  As an update, I re-created a project where I duped the track two times, just as I described above.  The positions are fine, but the video is still degraded, which I presume is the issue that Steve is talking about.

                   

                  I had thought this would be a simple experiment, but was I ever wrong!  I didn't realize that 1920 x 1200 could be such an issue.

                   

                  Kevin

                  • 6. Re: Weird position shift with multiple layers and cropping
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    Kevin,

                     

                    Maybe G-Spot, the free utility can get more info on your CODEC, plus all of the specs. of your file. That would be a good starting point.

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Weird position shift with multiple layers and cropping
                      nealeh Level 5

                      Kevin Elmore wrote:


                      but the video is still degraded

                       

                      PRE is having to downsize the 1920 x 1200 source footage to 576 x 480 DVD standard - which is probably just too much. Try it with a new HDV 1080i project and see what happens - downsizing from 1920 x 1200 to 1920 x1080 should give a much better result.

                       

                      Cheers,
                      --
                      Neale
                      Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                      • 8. Re: Weird position shift with multiple layers and cropping
                        Kevin Elmore Level 1

                        nealeh wrote:

                         

                         

                        PRE is having to downsize the 1920 x 1200 source footage to 576 x 480 DVD standard - which is probably just too much. Try it with a new HDV 1080i project and see what happens - downsizing from 1920 x 1200 to 1920 x1080 should give a much better result.

                         

                         

                        Hmm, maybe I'm more clever than I thought.  When I created the project, I changed the settings to HD 1080i 30.  I had learned through other trial and error that defining your dimensions early is important.  At the time, I only saw the frame size of 1920h.  I didn't even look at the second number, which is, of course, 1080v.

                         

                        If that is what you meant, then I am--as hard as it is to believe--way ahead of you.

                         

                        But, your explanation helps me understand what I'm doing.  The degradation that occurs as I add the layers would be what I would expect from a screen shot that was scaled down to 90%.  And I do wish that I shrug it off as something inconsequential.  Although, maybe I'm being too critical.  At the very least, I should run some tests with the final output being 1080 pixels high.  To my eyes, the degradation is simply not acceptable, but I've been wrong before.

                         

                        Quick question:  You mentioned a HDV 1080i project, but the frame size for HDV1080i 30 lists 1440h 1080v, so I ignored it in favor of the 1920 x (what I thought at the time was) 1200.  Did you mean another setting, or was HDV chosen for a different reason?

                         

                        Kevin

                        • 9. Re: Weird position shift with multiple layers and cropping
                          nealeh Level 5

                          No I got carried away! As you say the HDV settings are 1440 x 1080.

                           

                          Cheers,
                          --
                          Neale
                          Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                          • 10. Re: Weird position shift with multiple layers and cropping
                            nealeh Level 5

                            nealeh wrote:


                            PRE is having to downsize the 1920 x 1200 source footage to 576 x 480 DVD standard

                             

                            Ooops - mixing PAL with NTSC! That sentence should have read:

                             

                            PRE is having to downsize the 1920 x 1200 source footage to 720 x 480 DVD standard

                             

                            Cheers,
                            --
                            Neale
                            Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children