21 Replies Latest reply: Mar 12, 2010 4:37 AM by ryclark RSS

    Good things about Auditions Multi-track view...

    Ned43 Community Member

      Flexibility in MT View.

       

      You can not only drag entire clips around, but you can drag their edges to your heart desire (quicker then setting clip envelopes if you only want one section of a specific instance of a clip), set markers and snap to them, snap to clips to other clips in the same or different tracks, or snap them to markers etc..

       

      Once you have dragged your clips around and set their boundaries by dragging their edges, you can also mute each clip on each track...more flexibility!

       

      if you want to mute a specific not within a clip, simply select that note "right-click > split" then mute that part that was selected which is now it's own reference clip, again very flexible being able to mute seperate clips on the same track without muting the entire track, especially flexible when combined with edge-dragging and being able to right-click and move clips around with the hybrid tool.

       


      Some things they have done with the Multi-track are absolutely brilliant and intuitive...also they effects rack is extremely inuitive in that the first effect in the rack is the first applied and you can so easily change the order by dragging them up or down.

       

       

      The additional 2 seconds before/after punch-in is nice.

       

       

      the ability to make a unique copy by holding control and draggin the clip, simple, and the ability of Audition to have the boundaries of a clip automatically adjust to a selection within that clip by right clicking then adjusting boundaries (or trim, same thing! lol not shure why they got it twice under different names but hey, watever floats the engineers boat)

        • 1. Re: Good things about Auditions Multi-track view...
          Ned43 Community Member

          one of the best things is customizing your keystroke shortcuts. once you know how you want them change them to the keys you want to help your productivity, very flexible, i've got two keys for zooming to left and right side of the selection. so quick.

           

          they make it easier to set loops with the "find next beat" function by right clicking the yellow arrow up top on the cursor, use that and then the "find zero crossings" seperately or in combination, also lookup up the keystrokes to go to zero crossings...but that zero crossings is only in edit view I believe,, but you can "find next beat" in mt view as well as edit correct me if wrong.

           

          really the multitrack isn't perfect but it's coming along nicely, did 1 mention how intuitive the effects rack is..now for some slightly better efx...thumbs up on the convolution reverb though, and the regular "reverb" although cpu intensive isn't too bad... the multi-band compressor is decent as well but overall the efx could use a little upgrade.

           

          But Auditions multitrack is well on it's way to being one of hte best if they continue to develop this program properly...although for people running tons of tracks I think cpu usage is going to be an issue I don't know if they can solve that especially if you have efx on each track...that's one stumbling block I can think of but I don't use that many tracks.  I gotta say some things are very intuitve about this program's interface once you get into it although there is definetly a learning curve as with most all software.

          • 2. Re: Good things about Auditions Multi-track view...
            SuiteSpot Community Member

            Yes Ned43 these are all good things about MT in fact they are very good things.

            IMO for what i do MT is the only way to go.

             

            As for reverbs i use the free GlaceVerb FWIW it does just about everything i need.

             

            "although for people running tons of tracks I think cpu usage is going to be an issue I don't know if they can solve that especially if you have efx on each track"

             

            I guess that really depends on your cpu.  In my situation i can easily run 40+ tracks with half a dozen fx or more on each track with my quad core not even working up a sweat.  The bottle neck happens to be disk I/O and even with a Raptor or Raptor/Raid combination in can be a little frustrating sometiimes

            • 3. Re: Good things about Auditions Multi-track view...
              Ned43 Community Member

              Oh I suppose it could be my hardrives althought my 2.2ghz P4 is always at 30-70% with spikes using 100% when running a number of tracks and efx... but maybe the scratching/digital staticky sounds are from the hardrive not being fast enough?? huh idk, I always thought that was the sound when the cpu was maxed out...I should make a thread on that topic cos I was wondering if I upgrade my cpu to a 3.0ghz would that make a difference.

               


              Thanks for the "GlaceVerb" recommendation, is that a reverb that colors the sound or is it fairly transparent?  In what type of application do you usually use it?

               

               

              I was reading a little on software reverbs and people are saying that convolution re-verb causes more delay and uses more cpu...but in Audition it's the classic "reverb" and the "full reverb" which cause the most latency and cpu usage, not the convolution verb.

               

              why is that I wonder?

              • 4. Re: Good things about Auditions Multi-track view...
                SuiteSpot Community Member

                The problem is that it is really hard to compare like with like.

                Eg your pc vs my pc and how you use AA vs how/what I'm doing with it.

                 

                I'm using a 2.4ghz quad overclocked to 3.2ghz but it seldom uses more than one core with AA and as I said it certainly puts no strain on it.

                But for me I had to buy a couple of 10k rpm drives to make it workable.

                 

                "but maybe the scratching/digital staticky sounds are from the hardrive not being fast enough"

                Hmm, I doubt that

                 

                I use Glaceverb for just about everything but every now and then I'll use AA's Studio verb.

                I find it really flexible & and very transparent and as I recall it was someone on this forum who recommended it.

                 

                "people are saying that convolution re-verb causes more delay and uses more cpu"

                I have found that (in my case at least) to be true

                Why? I suspect because of the amount of calculations required..

                 

                 

                At the end of the day whatever works best for you is what you are after.

                • 5. Re: Good things about Auditions Multi-track view...
                  Ned43 Community Member

                  huh??

                   

                   

                  you find AA3's convolution reverb to be more cpu intensive and cause more latency then AA's reverb or full reverb?

                   

                   

                  gtfoh!

                   

                   

                  what I mean with the sound I'm getting, like say I'm playing a project (8-10 tracks or so with some efx) and then while the session is playing I right click to mute a clip, I many times get this staticky digital sound sort of like digital static combined with the sound of a dj scratching a record but not that blatant.

                   

                   

                  I was assuming it was the cpu but i just did a test with task manager and it makes the noise when I right-click while session is playing, even when the c

                  pu meter is only at 40% so maybe it's not the cpu...hmm...maybe I'm not supposed to right click while playing the session, just stop it first?

                  • 6. Re: Good things about Auditions Multi-track view...
                    SuiteSpot Community Member

                    Stupid question but I'll ask it anyway

                     

                    Have you turned off the windows sounds system?

                    • 7. Re: Good things about Auditions Multi-track view...
                      Ned43 Community Member

                      Oh 1'm shure there's no such thing as a stupid question, especially those pertaining to things I may or may not have done.

                       


                      1'm shure that I have deleted all the onboard audio drivers and even turned something off in the bios...however, my windows sounds were still in fact ON, never crossed my mind to turn them off!  even though 1 get highly annoyed by them!

                       

                      they're OFF now!! lol, just turned them off.

                       

                      makes no difference though, it's a brief noise but very unpleasant, digital static combined with a sort of record-scratching sound is the best I can describe it and that is really what it sounds like.

                       


                      hmm, maybe it is my harddrive that's too slow...but it doesn't effect the playback at all just makes the aweful sound (which really is not THAT aweful and is brief).

                       

                      I also notice that when I mute a clip during playback it takes about a second for it to register, so for instance if I mute a clip that is currently playing it won't go silent for about a second (well actually a bit less then a second).

                       

                      is this normal for an underpowered computer?

                       

                      If I stop playback, mute the clip, and hit play again there's no sound or delay.

                      • 8. Re: Good things about Auditions Multi-track view...
                        SuiteSpot Community Member

                        As an aside there is a rough cpu comparison performance chart here http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/240590-28-core-q6600

                        So it is difficult for us to compare performance between our systems.

                         

                        I dont recall seeing in this thread what you are using for a sound card in your setup nor which OS you are using - you wouldn't be using Vista by any chance?

                         

                        "I also notice that when I mute a clip during playback it takes about a second for it to register, so for instance if I mute a clip that is currently playing it won't go silent for about a second (well actually a bit less then a second).  is this normal for an underpowered computer?"

                        Thats probably understandable if your cpu is busy and cant react fast enough

                         

                        "If I stop playback, mute the clip, and hit play again there's no sound or delay."

                        Thats to be expected if your cpu is idle

                        • 9. Re: Good things about Auditions Multi-track view...
                          Ned43 Community Member

                          windows xp home

                           

                          soundcard is delta 1010 very stable compared to most soundcards, excellent drivers.

                           

                          cpu is a P4 2ghz which I could easily upgrade to 3.0ghz for 50 bucks easy installation, but will it make a difference?

                          • 10. Re: Good things about Auditions Multi-track view...
                            SuiteSpot Community Member

                            I could be wrong but the Delta 1010 is about 10 years old?

                            Not that that should matter.

                             

                            I wouldn't worry about spending the $50 - need to track the problem down first.

                             

                            Do you have the same problem if you use the onboard sound card?

                            Have you tried using the free asio4all driver - with either the 1010 or the onboard card?

                             

                            I dont have the answer to the problem but I guess its a matter of eliminating what it isn't

                            • 11. Re: Good things about Auditions Multi-track view...
                              Ned43 Community Member

                              eh screw all that process of elinimination not time for that the drivers work fine not a major thing it's an old computer, newer soundcards are less stable btw....think about it dude, they've been working on the drivers for a long time, and definetly a loong time for windows xp which was the main operating system that these cards have been used under, nothing is as stable, nothing, these new firewire cards don't even come close.

                               

                              I'd have to re-install onboard soundcard drivers which were hell to get rid of, my system is pretty stable now I don't wanna mess around too much.

                              • 12. Re: Good things about Auditions Multi-track view...
                                SuiteSpot Community Member

                                Nah - you're right - screw it.

                                • 13. Re: Good things about Auditions Multi-track view...
                                  Ned43 Community Member

                                  I notice I get a similar sound here and there when I have "reverb" effecting too many tracks, and it says that "reverb" (as opposed to "studio verb") is cpu intensive...so would that mean that it probably is my cpu that's causing the noise when I right click while my session is playing?

                                   

                                  Could it be that right-clicking while it's playing makes the cpu spike momentarily for some reason ?...cos the sound is only very brief and it doesn't effect the playback.

                                  • 14. Re: Good things about Auditions Multi-track view...
                                    ryclark Community Member

                                    It might be the graphic redraw to show the Right Click overlay menu causing a CPU spike. Have you tried running the DPC Latency checker whilst doing this?

                                    • 15. Re: Good things about Auditions Multi-track view...
                                      Ned43 Community Member

                                      ahhh!  my intuition tells me you might be onto something!

                                       

                                      However, what is dpc latency and what is a dpc latency checker?

                                       

                                      Is this the same as regular latency?

                                       

                                      In other words, does this have to do with my graphics card? ...or should I try to raise the latency in my soundcard settings and see if that works?  or is it an audition setting?  or

                                      • 17. Re: Good things about Auditions Multi-track view...
                                        Ned43 Community Member

                                        Thanks, just ran a check with Audition running, re-created the sound by right-clicking while the session was playing.

                                         

                                         

                                        The DPC latency checker never moved and continued to tell me that my computer is capable of real-time audio or something do that effect, all the bars were green and way at the bottom.

                                         

                                        re-created the sound multiple times with no change in dpc checker, said my computer was fine.

                                         

                                         

                                        hmmmmmmmm

                                         

                                         

                                        but the cpu doesn't seem to be peaking while the sound happens either, if I open take manager it doesn't show it hitting 100% just from a right-click...

                                        • 18. Re: Good things about Auditions Multi-track view...
                                          Ned43 Community Member

                                          when i right-click with task manager open it shows the cpu meter go to between 55-75% usually around 60%...also just playing a sesson the cpu is at between 20% and 40% most times, sometimes a bit lower.

                                           

                                          I Think I have a weak cpu...but also, a couple times I open task manager, and the cpu spikes to 100% just from opening task manager, funnily, at that time it didn't make any noise...but other times when I open task manager, it made the same noise as when I right-click...only those times, the cpu DID NOT spike to 100% only to 50% just from opening task manager, yet gave me that sound like when I right-click but even more brief.

                                           

                                          so maybe it's my built in graphics????  I thought all the drivers are up-to date, I upgraded through hp's website but the computer is from 2003 so maybe they haven't kept pace with xp????

                                           

                                          :confused:

                                          • 19. Re: Good things about Auditions Multi-track view...
                                            ryclark Community Member

                                            If you are using built in graphics it will steal some RAM for it's own use. Maybe accessing this RAM interrupts the audio stream. Much better to use separate graphics card, it needn't be a very high power/expensive one. In fact with AGP graphics cards it wasn't uncommon for fast expensive games player's ones to steal too much CPU time and cause just the sort of problems you are hearing. However these would show up using the DPC Latency checker.

                                            • 20. Re: Good things about Auditions Multi-track view...
                                              Ned43 Community Member

                                              better to use a seperate graphics card on a low-powered computer with no ram issues to speak of?

                                               

                                              I mean, Audition doesn't use even half of the 2gb I have, but are you saying the built in graphics could still cos the noise?

                                               

                                              I know my built in graphics uses about .5 gb because my computer shows 1.5gb of ram installed when I have 2gb, I called manufacturer and confirmed this is because the built in graphics uses the .5 that's missing, but still Audition doesn't even come close to using up the remaining 1.5gb's ever...it only maxes out the processing power, often when running alot of tracks with efx but that's to be expected with an underpowered system.

                                               

                                              but to install a seperate graphics card would mean more heat and espeically more noise (fan) more power usage (I have 275wat psu lol though i think it's a bit undderrated) and more drivers that could conflict with something or other, plus even with dedicated video ram if you don't have enough it could rob some of the computer ram as well right?

                                               

                                               

                                              Idk man, would you still recommend I get a seperate graphics card, you think that's what it is?

                                               

                                               

                                              I can't figure it out, seems like the processor but then it never spikes past 60% or so when I right-click while playing sooo...i only goes to 100% with a lot of longer tracks and effects.

                                              • 21. Re: Good things about Auditions Multi-track view...
                                                ryclark Community Member

                                                Simple graphics cards with only, say, 128Mb of memory a plenty good enough and don't cost very much. Most of that ilk have heatsink cooling not fan, so no extra noise and not extra much power required.