11 Replies Latest reply on Apr 28, 2010 1:11 PM by kamalx0

    illustrator for printing enormous commerical banners

    inquestflash Level 1

      hello forumers.

       

      i was asked to do a huge commercial banner for printing(which im working on it)and i know that illustrator is the right application for it.

      i was amazed by the difference on ps and illustrator,i done the same thing in illi and ps,but illustrator was flying,while photoshop was kneeling my pc.

       

      i done the same procedure in both applications.

       

      photoshop:made a canvas 400cm by 400cm(300res) brought in a photo(300res),tried to size it up in the canvas and photoshop kneeled

      i did the same thing in illustrator and  it was working fine scaled it up to and all was good.is this natural or has my photoshop some problem?

       

      thank you.

        • 1. Re: illustrator for printing enormous commerical banners
          John Danek Level 4

          Sounds typical to me.  However, your graphics card and the amount of RAM and video RAM may have something to do with it.  Depending on how you have your workflow setup, Illustrator can use a low res proxy for the "Placed" image(s), so rendering and movement is a bit quicker.

          • 2. Re: illustrator for printing enormous commerical banners
            Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

            You were not accomplishing the same thing in Illustrator as you were in Photoshop. You were not resamling the the image just increasing the width and height but not the pixels.

             

            In order to increase the image resolution you need to do this in PS then place it or open in in AI.

             

            In PS Image>Image Size (choose resample) Then add dimension and resolution desired be aware there is a limit from what size file sie you can start from and from what type of file you use to what size is practical to expect to achieve.If you are starting with a high res and want to increase it it wll probably be fine if it came from a digital camera of quality.

            • 3. Re: illustrator for printing enormous commerical banners
              Larry G. Schneider Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              At 11 ftx11ft there's not reason to use 300 ppi. It's just overkill. 72 ppi would probably be sufficient.

              • 4. Re: illustrator for printing enormous commerical banners
                Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                Larry G. Schneider wrote:

                 

                At 11 ftx11ft there's not reason to use 300 ppi. It's just overkill. 72 ppi would probably be sufficient.

                That is true as well and probably 60 ppi or even 36 ppi would be fine. You [probably have t stand 10 feet away to even see the thing.

                • 5. Re: illustrator for printing enormous commerical banners
                  inquestflash Level 1

                  hello wade and forumers.

                   

                  your absolute right,even at 30dpi it can print since its a commerical banner,hoisted 5m in the air and who on earth would notcie the pixels in it,but tell that to my boss&and his clients,ppl just dont seem to understand,when its comes to the final result and its tme forthem to pay lol.they want things crystal clear or else they think your doing a con job.

                   

                  best regards to you all.

                  • 6. Re: illustrator for printing enormous commerical banners
                    Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                    I understand however since it is inkjet that will be printing then they are not going to know the difference between 150 and 300 ppi so show them a 50cm X 50 cm proof at 300 ppi and 150 ppi or even 125 ppi and see which one they like best. Or if they can even tell the difference. The 125 ppi will be a bit more open and a little more vibrant the 300 and 150 ppi will be hard to discern the difference.

                     

                    Explain that the size of the file after 150 is fairly meaningless on an inkjet, but they would be correct if you were printing to a digital C print.

                     

                    Also explain that the printer is not going to choke the RIP with such a file size and will reduce it anyway.

                     

                    I doubt you will get anyone to print at a resolution higher than 125 ppi at that size.

                     

                    They might as well let the job go somewhere else they will lose money on the ink alone.

                     

                    Edited: More than likely your client and boss will pick the 125 ppi because it will be a bit livelier.

                    • 7. Re: illustrator for printing enormous commerical banners
                      John Danek Level 4

                      "Edited: More than likely your client and boss will pick the 125 ppi because it will be a bit livelier."

                       

                      What does that mean?  Do not mislead the post.  Livelier?  Stick to production protocols.  Photoshop pictures do not run marathons, people do.

                      • 8. Re: illustrator for printing enormous commerical banners
                        Kathlene Ruhan Level 3

                        The guys here are right.... I print Large Format, and if your boss and the client need some education, I'd be happy to help! No, this is not a sales pitch but more of a snide reply, I'm sorry. Everyone who knows nothing about design and print knows everything... if you know what I mean. I would reach out to whomever is going to be printing these and get their print specs to show to your boss - Even if you build and supply the file as your boss wants, the printer will use his specs.

                        • 9. Re: illustrator for printing enormous commerical banners
                          kamalx0

                          Overkill or not, Illustrator CS4 failed to render a 10.5 X 4 sq ft image as png or jpeg at 150 DPI anyway on a Intel Core2Quad with 64bit OS and 4 GB memory. Wonder if that is one of the reasons it is termed as overkill?

                          What if one needs that clarity from a close distance as well? Assumption that one would never need to place a banner at a distance closer than 10 ft to the viewer is flawed IMO.

                           

                          ( PS: I have rendered the same vector image at 200 DPI in another tool I usually work with as a lossless PNG - resulting dimensions on screen being 25200 x 9600 px! )

                          • 10. Re: illustrator for printing enormous commerical banners
                            Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                            You mean the dimensions are 10.5 feet  wide 4 feet high. The sq feet was just something that got in there? Just ant to make certain it does not mean something I do not understand.

                             

                            You can try this save the image file at half the dimension size at 300 ppi create the document in AI as half the dimensions as well and send it to the printer at 200% from the print dialog.

                             

                            BTW even though you won't like this the amount of info you will get when sending to an Inkjet at 300 ppi is negligible even at close range on out put you stat to notice it at 100 ppi. At 72 ppi you would notice a difference close up.

                             

                            You mean ppi not dpi. Dpi refers to a screen output setting for film and is not related to an images resolution, just trying to make certain we are referring to the same thing.

                             

                            I know lots of people use dpi instead of ppi, I used to myself.

                             

                            You should also keep in mind no matter what you feel or may think at 10.5 feet no matter what how the image was captured you are going to see degradation of the image quality unless it was shot on an eight by ten film based camera and scanned at an extremely high resolution for which your equipment might have problems handling.

                             

                            Also keep in mind your 64 bit system means nothing to CS 4 since it is 32 bit, CS 5 might be a difference.

                             

                            Having written all of that I agree with you if users want to use Illustrator for large high res output then Adobe should look into the possibility of offering them this capability.

                             

                            I should correct something I wrote above if one used an 8x10 film camera it would not have to be scanned at a really high resolution to give an excellent result I really meant it would be a very large file give a really high quality image. One that might be difficult to work with but not impossible.

                             

                            I got a little carried away.

                            • 11. Re: illustrator for printing enormous commerical banners
                              kamalx0 Level 1

                              Wade_Zimmerman wrote:

                               

                              You mean the dimensions are 10.5 feet  wide 4 feet high. The sq feet was just something that got in there? Just ant to make certain it does not mean something I do not understand.

                               

                              Touche! The "sq. feet" just got in there somehow. Wonder what i was thinking. It's not completely incorrect though; technically the area of the board is in fact (10.5*4) = 42 sq feet!

                               

                              You can try this save the image file at half the dimension size at 300 ppi create the document in AI as half the dimensions as well and send it to the printer at 200% from the print dialog.

                               

                               

                               

                              Agreed. In most cases, this seems to be a good solution.

                               

                               

                              BTW even though you won't like this the amount of info you will get when sending to an Inkjet at 300 ppi is negligible even at close range on out put you stat to notice it at 100 ppi. At 72 ppi you would notice a difference close up.

                               

                               

                              Agreed. The visual difference for resolutions between 100ppi to 300ppi from a fairly reasonable distance would be hardly noticeable or not at all, in most cases. We are talking about use-cases where the viewer can get unreasonably close to the board and the owner of the board doesn't want the viewer to see a pixelated picture. Rare though! Of course, it goes without saying that he must be willing to spend that extra buck to get that quality of print.

                               

                              You mean ppi not dpi. Dpi refers to a screen output setting for film and is not related to an images resolution, just trying to make certain we are referring to the same thing.

                               

                              I know lots of people use dpi instead of ppi, I used to myself.

                               

                              We are referring to resolution in print context, so yeah!

                               

                              You should also keep in mind no matter what you feel or may think at 10.5 feet no matter what how the image was captured you are going to see degradation of the image quality unless it was shot on an eight by ten film based camera and scanned at an extremely high resolution for which your equipment might have problems handling.

                               

                               

                              "unless it was shot on an eight by ten film based camera..."OR it was an image completely created in vectors! No?

                               

                              Also keep in mind your 64 bit system means nothing to CS 4 since it is 32 bit, CS 5 might be a difference.

                               

                              64 bit system implies, even a 32 bit program will be able to use whole of the available 4GB memory (RAM), without any tweaks! That does make a difference. Generally, a 32 bit OS would not be able to take advantage of the whole 4GB RAM without PAE enabled. In my case, and from what I have observed on my system, a 32 bit OS shows only 3.25GB of the installed 4GB as usable memory. Enabling PAE requires tweaking the OS installation, and most artists wouldn't like to tread in that territory I am guessing.

                               

                              Having written all of that I agree with you if users want to use Illustrator for large high res output then Adobe should look into the possibility of offering them this capability.

                               

                              I appreciate your enormous trust in Adobe, but the program fails to do it.

                              Not expected from a program that somehow has the "industry standard" tag and costs a bomb. I rendered the same vector image at a resolution of 200 DPI (PPI if you wish) without any problems in Inkscape. (Image dimensions just for amusement: 25200px X  9600px.)

                               

                              I should correct something I wrote above if one used an 8x10 film camera it would not have to be scanned at a really high resolution to give an excellent result I really meant it would be a very large file give a really high quality image. One that might be difficult to work with but not impossible.

                               

                              I got a little carried away.

                               

                              True. And that's okay. We all love our work so much!

                               

                              Cheers!