29 Replies Latest reply on Mar 18, 2010 1:17 PM by the_wine_snob

    Re copy protection

    whereisthemanual

      3 things,....Kind of a holdover from a closed thread

       

      1. the new patch may have been what stopped my earlier reported weird and very incorrect error messages, discovered due to gaps in my video.

      I get they shouldn't be there now, and that's fixed but I strongly believe the new patch does help get the burn to complete! Fewer crashes too.

       

      I SAY EVERYONE GET THIS UPDATE!!

       

      2. Kind of a holdover from an earlier discussion where Bill said only production glass masters can implement copy protection. For real?

       

      I am wondering, since I saw claims of a burnable DVD protection scheme on the web (must be true, right?) is there even a wimpy copy protection (to stop honest thieves) that a burner CAN do? As stated earlier, if a DVD is part of a legal disclosure, and you copy protect it, no matter how easily broken, a client would have to break the law to copy it. Yes, I would also put a (c) copyright notice on it too. Just insurance. I also understand that the cost may prohibit it, but am curious, (for instance Macrovision).

       

      3. Finally, watermarks. Can't seem to find out how its done on a DVD, or any reference to it with PRe8...Is a digital watermark possible and of any value?

        • 1. Re: Watermark
          nealeh Level 5

          Put your watermark on a video track across the whole project length and reduce it's opacity.

           

          Concerning "is it worth it", when rendered it will be a part of the movie so it will be hard to remove.

           

          Cheers,
          --
          Neale
          Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Watermark
            whereisthemanual Level 1

            Thanks, Neale. Not being from this industry, wouldn't have thought of

            such a simple answer. I can put my mark at the bottom or even in a corner, out of the way. Awesome.

             

            Is that done as white letters on a black background then overlaid on the top track, turning down the opacity?

            • 3. Re: Watermark
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              I would do it as an image, probably starting in Photoshop. I would include my logo image and my name, plus a tiny line of text on the © aspect. I would probably do this a what is called a Lower Third, like the lower banner that one sees on a TV news program. I'd size it appropriately in PS and Save_As either a .PSD, or .PNG with Transparency. As Neale states, the fixed Effect>Opacity will allow you to get the right "look."

               

              It could be done as just a bug, with say the logo only, in a corner of the screen.

               

              The main consideration will be do you want this to be easily cropped out, like with a bug, or do you wish to have the notice visible unless someone greatly alters the footage. This is a design consideration on your part. Some still shooters place a large, but mostly Transparent © right in the center of the images that go to clients for approval, or are posted to the Web. The viewer can see the image well, but there is that included symbol right in the middle of it. Tough call.

               

              BTW - one can do much of this in Titler, but I like the absolute control that I have with PS. Just a personal choice on my part.

               

              Good luck,

               

              Hunt

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: Watermark
                nealeh Level 5

                As Bill says the Titler is a possibility. If you want it quick and simple you can drag the text box anywhere, try various fonts, colours, styles and size, and access a whole raft of predefined text effects.

                 

                watermark2.png

                 

                Cheers,
                --
                Neale
                Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                • 5. Re: Watermark
                  whereisthemanual Level 1

                  Thanks Guys, all great suggestions.

                  Working on animations now but will try some of your suggestions when I put down the next video, maybe tomorrow am.

                   

                  Don

                  • 6. Re: Watermark
                    whereisthemanual Level 1

                    Still haven't quite gotten the overlay thing down but haven't spent much time on it either. More on that later.

                     

                    With the latest software upgrade the product doesn't have the recording problems I experienced earlier, but there are some memory-related crashes. Unfortunately, they don't even know they have crashed so no request for what went wrong. It reports "system memory is getting dangerously low, save and proceed with caution", then crashes before you can do anything. Oddly, it may have been doing an autosave as in one case, there was no sign of my project...nada...and it had autosaved many times over the hours before. That was a real drag as I hadnt saved under a new name for a while. Lost a few hours work. A couple of these crashes followed after trying to fix a menu problem, by replacing the menu, so the software was working hard, I guess.

                     

                    So 3 persistent problems (beside crashes).

                    1. This is the worst one. I cant figure out how to get rid of a scene icon that FILLS the scene selector/preview page, over top of the other well-behaved icons? Cant figure out how it occurs OR how to fix it. This has happened maybe 5x during edits and it can take an hour of messing around with editing the tracks before it magically fixes itself ! It has just happened again so I will go work on audio!

                     

                    2 Why during edits does a sound track split into replicas of itself on the same track line, but shrunk, so deleting all but one of them and re-expanding the remaining one restores it. Wish audio editing came with a hammer and NAILS so things would stay fixed.

                     

                    3 which leads into the next one. how the heck do you get things to stay put? During edits, stuff following moves all over, leaves behind its scene markers, and disorients relative to the audio, sometimes splitting audio into the aforementioned pieces.

                     

                    I am working on 9 sequential scenes and jumping around doing audio on a couple then back to video. The project is halfway done and you can tell by my disappearance, that I have figured out a lot of work-arounds, but this has been quite a ride. Oh yeah, this particular PC is a  2,4GHz P4 with 2GB of hyperthreaded fast RAM (which I cannot expand) and 2 big fast hard drives running XP Pro. My core duo laptop was just too much of a pain to deal with (geeze I hate Vista). If I make some money off this project, new desk PC first! And a bigger monitor...cant read the track names on my 20".

                    Thanks, gang.

                    Don

                    • 7. Re: Watermark
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      This ARTICLE might help you with your resources issues. I use the tips in it before starting any editing session.

                       

                      Good luck,

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: Watermark
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        For #1, can you post a screen-cap showing exactly what you are talking about. I was unable to follow.

                         

                        #2 - If one has added a Soundtrack, and then does Ripple Edits, the Soundtrack will split to accommodate that. If one does an Insert Edit, it should not happen. The normal workflow is to edit ALL Video, and then add the Soundtrack. PrE does not yet have Track Locking, like PrPro does. That would correct this behavior, but if one does do Ripple Edits, then the Duration of that Soundtrack will now be wrong.

                         

                        #3 - Scene Markers are attached to the Timeline, and not to the Clips below on the Video Tracks. These can be moved, or just added when the editing is complete - the normal workflow.

                         

                        Good luck, and hope that this helps,

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: Watermark
                          whereisthemanual Level 1

                          Did most of this stuff already, though didn't try raising the PRe8 priority, good idea.

                          I really hate to disable NAV 2010 as it has saved my butt so many times. Probably should disconnect from the network if I do that.

                          The new version of NAV does not mess with your computer NEARLY as much as it used to and is really fast. If I do anything REALLY critical, I will shut it down.

                           

                          Thanks

                          • 10. Re: Watermark
                            whereisthemanual Level 1

                            These replies are a bit out of sequence

                             

                            as to your second post

                            1. good idea, never tried that

                             

                            2. Hmmmm Of course I put down audio first sometimes. Makes perfect sense, now I have to change my evil ways.

                             

                            3. There are techniques to this business I have yet to learn, It's funny, this is an analogy to the way I do everything. I often work on several tasks at once, if I get stuck, I shift and have 2 PCs running all the time, back and forth thinking about the problem on one while I work on the other, scary to most I'm sure, but must have a core duo in my head. Unfortunately, if my wife comes in and asks me a question when in this mode, both cores crash, corrupted data and only a mental reboot recovers my work.

                            • 11. Re: Watermark
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              I understand about shutting down Norton. When I do it, I have zero Internet presence. If I need to go and get something from the Net, I just use another computer, and not the one that I am editing on at the time. When I am done editing, I just reboot, so my NAV, pop-up blockers, spysweepers, etc. are all back up and running.

                               

                              Good luck,

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: Re copy protection
                                whereisthemanual Level 1

                                Unfortunately the menu is even more messed up than before but there is stuff on-screen I can't post in a public forum ( confidential).

                                 

                                How do I remove the current menu and replace it? I dragged the current one into the preview window and you can't drag it back. Maybe i should first list then delete all scene markers and reinsert them seuentially? See if that fixes it. I may have inserted them in random order.

                                Thnks!

                                 

                                Sent from my iPhone

                                • 13. Re: Re copy protection
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                  In PrE, one just sets the DVD to Auto-play and that will remove the Menu Set. You can then choose another Menu Set. The Auto-play is basically a toggle. With Auto-play, there will be no Menus.

                                   

                                  Hope this helps, and good luck,

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                  • 14. Re: Re copy protection
                                    whereisthemanual Level 1

                                    Excellent ! Don't know how I created it but that got rid of the button-scramble.

                                    Thanks a lot.

                                    Don

                                     

                                    Sent from my iPhone

                                    • 15. Re: Re copy protection
                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                      Good news Don. Glad that it worked for you.

                                       

                                      In many authoring programs, one has to manually remove Menus, but the Auto-play works like a Reset button. Do-overs!

                                       

                                      Good luck,

                                       

                                      Hunt

                                      • 16. Re: Re copy protection
                                        whereisthemanual Level 1

                                        That was great, but 2 more crashes. One deleted 2 audio tracks and half a dozen images, the later one changed my menu

                                        fonts to HUGE. Totally unprovoked. The weird thing is the program USED to know when it crashed and ask for a crash report. No more. Since the update, it just closes, leaving you to wonder what got fried THIS time.

                                         

                                        At least I'm getting 2 steps forward for each one back. Think I'll finish off the evening working on audio after some corned beef and cabbage.

                                        Less headaches.

                                        Tomorrow, I'll try shutting off everything software, and unhooking from my network. You never know if MS (or anyone else) is downloading in the background. Hope the program doesn't require an internet connection to run.

                                         

                                        Thanks Bill

                                        • 17. Re: Re copy protection
                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                          2 more crashes. One deleted 2 audio tracks and half a dozen images, the later one changed my menu fonts to HUGE. Totally unprovoked.

                                           

                                          This is extremely odd behavior, and totally uncharacteristic. The fonts are actually part of the .PSD files, so a change to them is very worrisome. Something is corrupting your PREL file, and also the .PSD files on your system.

                                           

                                          I would take two approaches:

                                           

                                          1.) Be sure to do plenty of Save_As_a_Copy for the .PREL. Every major editing step would be a good time to do this. See this ARTICLE regarding the differences between the three Save options.

                                           

                                          2.) I'd try to track down what is happening. Usually, there is a "breadcrumb trail" left behind. Event Viewer might be able to help you find the clues in that trail. This ARTICLE will give you some tips.

                                           

                                          Good luck,

                                           

                                          Hunt

                                          • 18. Re: Re copy protection
                                            whereisthemanual Level 1

                                            I took a quick look at the troubleshooting section, yipes that's an effort!

                                             

                                            Will probably have to pursue though as I had another first menu screen, font change.

                                            I think this happens when a manual and a auto save collide. This is the second time that a manual save seemed to be interrupted by an autosave, and the whole thing shuts down a lot faster than normally. I didnt look at the project till this am and the fonts were huge again.

                                            A clue to that, may be that the font size for the disc title has a large default. I had changed that to 30pt arial black (for my lengthly front page property rights statement) and it DOES keep the font, but reverts to something like 72(?) pt

                                             

                                            After fixing that, I discover in an attempt to write a disc, that the dreaded "Device Error, The target device was unsuitable for use" message is back!

                                            Same message when writing to the PC hard drive so once again, I believe the media has nothing to do with it.

                                             

                                            Last time I fixed it by removing viseo gaps, this time there are none but several in the audio, which SHOULD be ok, right?

                                             

                                            I needed a test disc to see if my placement and sizing of images worked out, and how my narration sounded and synced to the animations.

                                            Essentially wanted to review my work so far and the PC preview doesn't really keep up (though I will try the process priority trick right away).

                                             

                                            This is SO frustrating. I dread getting the production done, then not being able to burn it.

                                            Processes completed:

                                            encoded menus, encoded media, compiling media gets to 96%, stalls there then the error.

                                            • 19. Re: Re copy protection
                                              whereisthemanual Level 1

                                              Ah Ha

                                              Reset the font to 30pt. Did a normal save, shut down normally, restarted and my front page title font is 70pt. SO, that is not a malfunction, it is fixed somewhere.

                                               

                                              Also raised processing priority to "above normal" and it opens a lot faster.

                                               

                                              And I HAD set my autosave to 5 mins because of all the losses, I now set it to 15 mins, though this has nothing to do with the font problem.

                                               

                                              Tiny steps!

                                               

                                              Sent from my iPhone

                                              • 20. Re: Re copy protection
                                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                Last time I fixed it by removing viseo gaps, this time there are none but several in the audio, which SHOULD be ok, right?

                                                 

                                                Yes, that will be fine. Because the DVD-spec. is based around Video (you can have a Project with zero Audio), the Video stream (your complete Timeline) is all important. That is why gaps can cause such grief. One "trick" is to create Transparent Video (New icon in later versions of PrE), and drag it to a Video Track above the main Video Tracks. Click-drag its Tail to the full Duration of the Timeline. Still, getting rid of gaps is by far the best way to go.

                                                 

                                                The corruption of your Menus is very troublesome. Are you editing to/from an external HDD, by chance? Is it USB?

                                                 

                                                Also, I have never seen a manual Save and an Auto-Save collide. The Save process is quite quick, so to have this happen multiple times is strange. During various functions, like Burn to Folder, or Burn to Disc, or Rendering, Auto-Save is turned off, so that it does not impede the function in progress.

                                                 

                                                Not sure what is happening in your case, but it sounds like you have a "ghost in the machine," and it ain't Casper the Friendly Ghost.

                                                 

                                                Good luck,

                                                 

                                                Hunt

                                                • 21. Re: Re copy protection
                                                  whereisthemanual Level 1

                                                  No ext FW or USB drive...

                                                   

                                                  I think I will create a bmp disclaimer page and set it as the main menu background, eliminating the title text grief!

                                                   

                                                  And I will try to figure out the creation of a transparent video overlay, good idea! Would prove out the gaps theory too, though really don't see any. I have SO many still frames now, one could have snuck in there.

                                                   

                                                  Sent from my iPhone

                                                  • 22. Re: Re copy protection
                                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                    When I suspect a gap, I zoom in on the Timeline to about the Frame-level, and hit Home to get to the beginning of my Timeline. Then, I hit PageDn to step through the Timeline, one Clip at a time. I watch the CTI (Current Time Indicator w/ the red Edit Line). It should jump, one Clip at a time. If it seems to hiccup, or pause, I have found a gap. Sometimes, it can be as small as a Frame, or maybe as large as 3-4 Frames. How I fix the gap will depend on exactly where it is, and what is around it. Sometimes, it's as simple as Click-dragging the Head of one Clip, or the Tail of the other, to fill the gap. Other times, it can involve expanding the gap and using Black Video (created with the New icon and dragged to the Timeline, being shortened, as is necessary) and doing Dip-to-Black Transitions. It just depends.

                                                     

                                                    Good luck,

                                                     

                                                    Hunt

                                                    • 23. Re: Re copy protection
                                                      whereisthemanual Level 1

                                                      Like that trick and found my end marker was 1frame beyond end! Bet that did it.

                                                       

                                                      Typing on iPhone... Trying to do watermark overlay with a bmp file stretched full length in video2. Tried white on black and black Ltrs on white, both hard to adjust so video is not gray and text faintly visible, what's the trick?

                                                       

                                                      Sent from my iPhone

                                                      • 24. Re: Re copy protection
                                                        whereisthemanual Level 1

                                                        Videomerge isn't it ( with black ltrs on white bkgnd)as it causes selective blocking of stuff behind ltrs, maybe gray letters on white?

                                                         

                                                        Sent from my iPhone

                                                        • 25. Re: Re copy protection
                                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                          I always create Titles in Photoshop (if I do not use the internal Titler feature), and choose the Video Project Preset, that matches my Project, say NTSC 720 x 480 Widescreen (16:9), PAR = 1.212, from New Image. I then will leave the Transparency, if I want the Title's text to be over my video footage, or create a Shape with a Fill of R = 36, G = 36, B = 36, and then set my Text color to R = 235, G = 235, B = 235 (for NTSC). This gives me a Video-black and Video-white, though they are really a very light gray and a very dark gray. This keeps my Text from "shimmering," which could happen if I use a Super-white = 255.

                                                           

                                                          I then Save_As .PSD out of PS, and Import that into my Project, for use on a higher Video Track (for the Transparent background), or on my Video Track 1, if I want the Black. Your end result will dictate exactly how you create the Background, or Fill Layer/Shape, and where you will place the Title on the Video Tracks.

                                                           

                                                          By choosing the proper New Image Preset, I then have zero issues with PrPro/PrE having to Scale anything - it Imports at the perfect Frame Size and PAR.

                                                           

                                                          How are you creating your BMP, and in what program? Might be an easier way to do it.

                                                           

                                                          Good luck,

                                                           

                                                          Hunt

                                                           

                                                          PS - glad you found your issue with the Project. Having a Marker beyond the Video really constitutes a "gap." Also, NEVER have your Audio longer than your Video, not even one Audio Unit. I always end my Video with ~ 02 sec. of Black Video, and end my Audio ~ 01 sec. before that.

                                                          • 26. Re: Re copy protection
                                                            whereisthemanual Level 1

                                                            Simply used 720x480 white frame in ms paint, selected 2colors (b+w) typed in chosen font in black then switched back to color mode, selected a custom around 50% gray and filled the characters, saved it. Added it as video2 and used videomerge. Looks great! Answered my own question. Have a nice copyright message across the bottom of entire video. Perfect for my purpose. Will stretch ful length then try to burn it.

                                                             

                                                            Q.... Does the final video have an embedded timecode, such that if a copy was edited there would be evidence of that?

                                                             

                                                            Sent from my iPhone

                                                            • 27. Re: Re copy protection
                                                              whereisthemanual Level 1

                                                              OK Bill, so finally ran thru a burn to hard drive, with a great watermark (the technique I described worked great and is really simple).

                                                              Then used ImgBurn to fry one up, seems faster than PRe8 to do it this way.

                                                               

                                                              I'm not sure if the only problem I found, a stop marker just 1 frame after the end of video, (using your pagedown search technique in zoomed timeline) was it. But the watermark overlay was something I wanted anyway, even if it's technically the wrong way to fix things.

                                                               

                                                              My disc works well though I had hoped "scenes" would play, then return to the scene menu after hitting the next scene marker, and it doesn't do that. I could swear that commercial DVDs do. Maybe it will on a TV, havent tried that yet. Anyway, not bad fro a newbie, looks gpretty good!

                                                               

                                                              I'm sure the crashes will continue to plague me as I work thru the other half of this project, but I am getting better.

                                                               

                                                              The last crash happened when hitting "undo" too fast.

                                                              Bing, no warning just gone.

                                                              I wish they didn't remove crash reports, guess they were getting too many of them!

                                                               

                                                              Thanks for your responsiveness.

                                                              You are truely the missing help center for this product!

                                                              • 28. Re: Re copy protection
                                                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                The MPEG-2 inside the DVD-Video's VOB will have a Timecode, that the player can access in most cases. Now, if someone rips the MPEG-2 and edits that, there will likely not be any forensic trail. However, with your © notice burned into the Video, they will then have to Crop that out to use it without the notice.

                                                                 

                                                                With still images, even posted as thumbnails, many photographers put a large, but light © symbol in the middle of the image, so no use with cropping is likely to occur. To retouch out that symbol, the watermark, is a great deal of effort, and it would be cheaper to buy the rights to use the image (especially as they will get a higher rez version) from the photographer.

                                                                 

                                                                Good luck,

                                                                 

                                                                Hunt

                                                                • 29. Re: Re copy protection
                                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                                  My disc works well though I had hoped "scenes" would play, then return to the scene menu after hitting the next scene marker, and it doesn't do that. I could swear that commercial DVDs do. Maybe it will on a TV, havent tried that yet. Anyway, not bad fro a newbie, looks gpretty good!

                                                                   

                                                                  This is a limitation of the authoring functions in PrE. A full-featured authoring program can provide all sorts of navigational elements. PrE is fairly simplistic, but within the limitations, is very quick and easy. I like power, but that comes with a price - you have to do almost everything by hand, but that is a price that I gladly will pay.

                                                                   

                                                                  Glad that you got the Project burned and have your disc. It'll be easy to burn however many copies that you need with ImgBurn. I'd just use that VIDEO_TS folder, set the number of copies that you need, and then feed blanks to the burner, when ImgBurn says "Feed Me!" ImgBurn also will do disc to disc copies, but if one only has one burner, then the equivalent of that VIDEO_TS folder will have to be written to the HDD, for the burn to a blank, when you replace the disc with that folder. You already have that folder, so I would use that.

                                                                   

                                                                  Good luck,

                                                                   

                                                                  Hunt