16 Replies Latest reply on Mar 22, 2010 8:42 AM by John T Smith

    $2k doorstop

    phillip-nolan

      purchased this computer specifically for editing

      videos.  Specs as follows:

       

      i7-920, 12Gb, 300Gb, 9800gtx+ Optiarc AD-7190S

       

      I have been trying for over a month and have yet to complete a burn with PRE8.  Updating the Nvidia drivers allowed me to begin the render process without a blue screen, but now the blue-screen is occuring when the burn to DVD begins.

       

      (yes i have updated the firmware on the DVD as well. The DVD that i bought for the system did not have any updates, so i switched to a known good writer for testing.  Neither works.)

       

      any suggestions?

        • 1. Re: $2k doorstop
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          Often, a BSOD is a sign of heat build up, especially during a Render, or Transcode operation. This can be the result of a hung fan, poor air circulation, or maybe a heatsink becoming detached. It can also indicate an underpowered, or mis-configured Powersupply.

           

          I'd get the free utility, SpeedFan and monitor the heat from all sensors in the case. That will likely point to a heat buildup. Unfortunately, tracking down the exact cause of this, and then curing it will likely require more work.

           

          I'd check the operation of ALL fans, and all heatsinks. Also, if you have more fan mounting points (look all over the case), adding fans can be very helpful. With an NLE computer, cooling is a major concern, as the components are stressed more than almost every other operation.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

           

          PS - if your BIOS is set to reboot on failure, you might want to reset that, so you can read the BSOD, as there could be some useful info amongst all that worthless code.

          • 2. Re: $2k doorstop
            John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            I have an OLD computer http://www.pacifier.com/~jtsmith/ADOBE.HTM with Premiere Pro CS3 & Encore CS3

             

            When I tell Encore to create a final product (I go to disk via ISO and burn later) my motherboard says "I'm hot and working hard" and my fans kick up to full speed... sounds like a 747 about to take off

             

            As Hunt said... BSOD is a hardware problem

             

            Also... you need AT LEAST two 7200rpm drives to edit video... drive 1 for windows and all software & drive 2 for data files

            • 3. Re: $2k doorstop
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              Often, when a system crashes, there is a breadcrumb trail left behind. This ARTICLE will give you tips on gathering clues as to what was going on, when the crash occurred.

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: $2k doorstop
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                Here is an ARTICLE that links to a post by Harm Millaard, the hardware guru on the PrPro forum. He lists several great utilities for checking out a system.

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: $2k doorstop
                  n8turepix Level 1

                  I had an unreliable machine that crashed constantly, and it turned out to be memory.  Windows is not good at telling you a problem is memory related.  In my case, the Windows Debugger that should "know all" said the blue screen was a memory controller fault.  The hint was memory was involved somehow.

                   

                  Get the utility memtest86+ (free from http://www.memtest.org/).  Run it on your machine and if any errors are reported, remove all the memory sticks except one.  If no errors, mark the stick as good and put in the next one.  It will run faster if you set the good stick aside and just run the test on one stick at a time.  Once you find a bad stick, replace it, or remove it and you can run the machine at reduced performance until you get it replaced.  You might also find the machine will not boot if only the bad stick is installed.

                   

                  Photoshop and Premiere heavily exercise system memory.  They will break a machine when no other program will.

                   

                  When you get new memory, be sure to get "lifetime guarantee" sticks.  Samsung memory is particularly unreliable and I've had to replace it every six months to a year.  Kingston offers a lifetime guarantee as do some other suppliers.  And of course, save your work frequently.  Every time I got complacent, I lost a stick and several hours of work.

                   

                  -Chris.

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: $2k doorstop
                    DRC_40

                    n8turepix wrote:

                     

                    Get the utility memtest86+ (free from http://www.memtest.org/).  Run it on your machine and if any errors are reported, remove all the memory sticks except one.  If no errors, mark the stick as good and put in the next one.  It will run faster if you set the good stick aside and just run the test on one stick at a time.  Once you find a bad stick, replace it, or remove it and you can run the machine at reduced performance until you get it replaced.  You might also find the machine will not boot if only the bad stick is installed.

                     

                     

                    -Chris.

                     

                    This is great advice. There is a very good chance BSOD is memory related, been there myself over the years and memtest is a great utility I've used a bunch.

                     

                    May I also add that if it is memory make sure you buy memory that is supported by your computer and/or motherboard manufacturer. I never buy memory that is not specifically recommended for whatever motherboard I am using at the time. Matching sticks is also recommended. Dont just change out one stick, change them all, unless you can match what you already have installed. With the strain this program puts on your system I would also look at a low latency high performance product. Its more expensive but I have found the results are worth the investment for memory intensive applications and Premiere Elements clearly fits that bill.

                    • 7. Re: $2k doorstop
                      phillip-nolan Level 1

                      thanks for the posts.

                       

                      I did not mention that the OS is Win7 x64.  I also should have mentioned that i do this for a living.  Troubleshooting is my bread and butter.  I have most of the software mentioned (or their equivalents)

                       

                      that being said i will check your suggestions and post back if i find a solution. Right now my instincts tell me that the SATA controller or the DVD are the issue.  thus far, I have switched DVDs and upgraded firmware.  I will now switch SATA controllers for the DVD.

                       

                      I suspect heat is not an issue.  My cpu temps run at ambient or below.  My case is a  CoolerMaster HAF.  The CPU cooler is a TuniQ tower 120.

                       

                      I also suspect that memory is not an issue because i use voltaicHD from shedworx to transcode from HD to SD.  The process is highly memory intensive,  takes roughly the same length of time and i have never had a problem with that process.  Howerver I will test it as well.

                       

                      The drives are 2x300Gb Velociraptors Raid0, i have more than 300Gb free space, so drive speed should not be an issue either.

                       

                      Any other ideas?

                       

                      Message was edited to add additional information and correct spelling errors by: phillip-nolan

                      • 8. Re: $2k doorstop
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        Phillip,

                         

                        What sort of clues did Event Viewer yield? Driver issues can also cause BSOD's, and often one gets messages that lead in this direction. Now, finding WHICH driver, can be a bit tougher.

                         

                        Good luck,

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: $2k doorstop
                          phillip-nolan Level 1

                          Here is the latest in the quest for a burn . . .

                           

                          I ran memtest again, this time i let it run for 10 passes 20+ hours.  No Errors.

                           

                          Verified all the drivers are signed

                           

                          verified CPU temps are remaining at or under 35c.  System temps are at or under 40c

                           

                          Found that the video driver was giving errors -- removed and reinstalled the latest Nvidia download.

                          I also switched the sleep mode from S3 to S1 in the BIOS based on a recommendation from a technet article.

                           

                          from this point on i tried a burn between each process.  Each ended in BSOD

                           

                          Removed XPmode.

                           

                          Removed recent MS updates.

                           

                          Moved DVD to second SATA controller.

                           

                          Tried a short burn  -- it was successful.

                           

                          Tried a full DVD burn -- BSOD

                           

                          I have also change the second SATA from normal to ACHI and back. -- neither worked.

                           

                           

                          Today i am trying a burn to a folder to eliminate the DVD as a source of problems.

                           

                          There are some errors in the log inidicating that Win7 thinks that it did not get a clean power-cycle.  Happens nearly every boot.  Am trying to figure out if they have some significance.  I have turned off all sleep functions.

                           

                          I have also disabled GPU rendering, background rendering and i think i have disabled "threaded processing."

                           

                          I think my next step is a complete wipe and reinstall.  I would reinstall on a single drive (turn off the ACHI) without raid to see if the driver from Gigabyte is the issue.

                           

                          Anyone have any alternate ideas?

                          • 10. Re: $2k doorstop
                            John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            >drives are 2x300Gb Velociraptors Raid0

                             

                            You need to have Windows and programs on a separate boot drive

                             

                            Then optionally scratch files on a separate drive

                             

                            The data files on your raid

                             

                            Having everything on one drive/raid is a BAD idea, since program and data are fighting for access

                            • 11. Re: $2k doorstop
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              Going back, I had a bad MoBo, and it would throw BSOD, when it was loaded up. I ran through about the steps that you used, thinking heat, then RAM, but it was the MoBo. A replacement took care of that, and the computer is still going strong as a backup and peripheral handling device.

                               

                              Good luck,

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: $2k doorstop
                                n8turepix Level 1

                                A bit of a longshot, but try removing RAID.  If the OS is on a RAID volume, put it on a non-RAID disk and run the burn so it accesses only a separate non-RAID volume. 

                                 

                                If changing the disk configuration is difficult, try this:  Sometime back, I was experiencing disk errors that were resolved by removing SATA Native Command Queuing.  It's an easy checkbox in the device driver property pages.  Disable it for all RAID disks, then reboot.  You might lose some performance but the loss is marginal and if you get reliability in exchange, who cares?  On XP the event posted was: 

                                 

                                An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk0\D during a paging operation

                                 

                                I don't know what Win7 would post for this.  But even if it's not NCQ, it's worth taking RAID out of the picture as a test. If you had 20+ hours of Memtest with no errors, your memory's clean.

                                 

                                -Chris.

                                1 person found this helpful
                                • 13. Re: $2k doorstop
                                  phillip-nolan Level 1

                                  agreed - memory is clean.

                                   

                                  I would like to remove the raid, but it is RAID 0 (two  discs striped)  no way to remove it without reinstall.  I think the HDD  is not the issue since i can complete a burn to a folder without a  problem.

                                   

                                  Some new info -- Completed an entire burn. but to a folder.  Thought it was solved.

                                   

                                  tried a burn to a disc.  BSOD at about 92% or wherever it actually starts to burn the DVD after rendering.  The BSOD was 0x50  which almost always is a hardware problem.  It is the same that has been thrown consistantly.

                                   

                                  what i am thinking is this:  there  is a conflict between PRE8 and the native DVD burner in Win7?  I have tried the DVD on two controllers and with TWO different drives by different Manufacturers.

                                   

                                  there are no hardware errors being thrown in the windows logs other than the 0x50 bugcheck.

                                   

                                  any more ideas before i crush and rebuild?

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  EDIT: too late, i updated MB bios and it no longer can access the raid. looks like a rebuild is mandated.

                                  • 14. Re: $2k doorstop
                                    phillip-nolan Level 1

                                    Finally Success.

                                     

                                    I reloaded windows with all native drivers i.e. default drivers loaded by Win7.  Next i loaded PRE8.

                                     

                                    did a test burn of a full SD CD.  Success.

                                     

                                    I then changed the raid from standard IDE to native.

                                     

                                    did a test burn of a full SD CD.  Again Success.

                                     

                                    I then returned the original DVD burner to this machine.

                                     

                                    Again Success.

                                     

                                    So the burning (pun intended) question is:  Which update killed the burn process.  Was it the PRE8 update.  Or the updated video driver, or the Microsoft updates?

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                    at his point the problem is solved.

                                     

                                    I will report back with further developments.

                                     

                                    Conclusion:  Updates can be a boon or a bust.

                                    • 15. Re: $2k doorstop
                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                      Without being able to do a System Restore between each update and testing, there might never be an answer.

                                       

                                      The important thing is that you have gotten things going and working well.

                                       

                                      Good luck,

                                       

                                      Hunt

                                      • 16. Re: $2k doorstop
                                        John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        Now that everything is working... MAKE A BACKUP so you can restore if needed

                                         

                                        The program I use is http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/image-for-linux.htm which has a small program included to make a bootable CD (program runs in Linux)

                                         

                                        Smart Owner http://www.pacifier.com/~jtsmith/ADOBE.HTM#SmartOwn