17 Replies Latest reply on Mar 24, 2010 2:04 PM by the_wine_snob

    Loss of audio when importing

    ruma bambusa Level 1

      Hi to all Internet Premier Pro Gurus

      First a little about our situation; (it may be relevant) we are working on a development program in a remote part of East Timor. We have limited intermittent email access in a neighbouring village. We cannot easily get our editing computer to the village to connect to the internet.

      But all software was previously installed and registered online and has previously worked fine.

       

      The computer specs;

      Intel(R) Core(TM) Duo CPU

      E6750 @ 2.66GHz

      2.67 GHz, 1.97 GB of RAM

      Windows XP professional version 2002

       

      The Camera specs;

      Sony handycam

      HD AVCHD

      HDR XR520

      I have been recording to the cameras internal hard drive 250GB in both SD and HD.

       

      The problem;

      When importing into Premier Pro CS3 (PP) I am loosing the audio.

      Also I cannot get Premier Pro to recognise or operate the camera.

      When I import from the camera to the computer (both using the camera software program or not) it is stored as a .mpeg.

      There are also imported to the computer several unreadable media files with every readable file but all video selected is imported.

      The computer will play these readable files ok in a variety of media players including Adobe Bridge but when imported into PP they lose audio.

      This is a new camera that I’ve not used before with PP and only brought due to its compact size and ease for local villages to use.

      I do not have a memory card with me so haven’t been able to test video imported from there.

      Previously I’ve used HD camera of greater and less capacity and not had any issues including handycams.

      Ive tried to convert to .avi or other formats but had no success still when imported into PP.

      PP still has no problem importing video and audio files from older cameras stored on the computer.

      We don’t have access at the moment to test other cameras as there are none in the area and will be awhile till we have access to other cameras and proper internet connections.

      Am I missing something?

      Any help gratefully appreciated and as you may suspect we are relative novices and bilingual so we appreciate simpler (non technical) language

       

        • 1. Re: Loss of audio when importing
          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          >HD AVCHD... new camera that I’ve not used before

           

          Using a new camera for the first time, in production, is a really bad idea

           

          The FREE program http://www.headbands.com/gspot/ will tell you the actual codec inside the file, which may then help you install the codec needed to edit

           

          But...  Your computer is underpowered for AVCHD 

           

          Read Convert AVCHD to HDV http://forums.adobe.com/thread/390605?tstart=0 

           

          Also... To work with AC3 sound files in Premiere CS3, copy the ad2ac3dec.dll file from the Encore CS3 directory into the Premiere directory

          • 2. Re: Loss of audio when importing
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            Welcome to the forum.

             

            First with an AVCHD camera, you will NOT be able to Capture, but only proceed with your workflow - Copy the files over from the camera to the computer, for Import into PrPro. No device control, no Capture, etc.

             

            Now, I would Copy over ALL files from the camera into a folder on your computer. It could well be that your camera is recording elemental streams, i.e. separate Audio-only and Video-only files - not Multiplexed into one single file. What are the file extensions from the camera? You mention the MPEG, but what are the others? It could be that you will need to Import an Audio stream too, and sync that up on the Timeline.

             

            When you play these MPEG files outside of PrPro, do you get Audio from them? If so, then they are muxed, but PrPro is having an issue with the Audio. It could also be that if you are playing the MPEG from the folder with the other files, the player is basically combining elemental streams from the pieces and instruction files in that folder.

             

            When you Import the MPEG, do you see a little blue Progress Bar at the lower-right-hand side of the PrPro GUI? It would say "Conforming Audio," or similar syntax. Have you let this process complete 100% (very important)?

             

            When you can get on the Internet, download the great, free utility G-SPOT. Install it on your editing computer and run one of those "silent" MPEG's through it. Look to the middle-left of the screen, for the Audio box. What does it tell you about that file? Does it have specs. for Audio? What are those specs.?

             

            There are a lot of "bases" to cover, and hope that I have covered them all. If I have not been clear on any of the requests for info, do not hesitate to ask for clarification. With the combined knowledge of this forum, we can get this problem solved.

             

            Most of all, good luck, and let us know about the Audio in the files, or in other files in that folder.

             

            Hunt

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Loss of audio when importing
              ruma bambusa Level 1

              Thanks Bill and John for your replies

               

              The files that I am unable to open are .modd and .moff

              I have now run them through GSpot and the results are;

              .modd

              File type- .XML

              Mime type- application / xhtml + xml

              Rendering failed

              .moff

              File type- unknown

              Mime type- unknown

              Rendering failed

              There is no other info (including from the Audio box) available on GSpot

               

              The .mpg's that I can open give all information

              DVD "VOB" format

              MPEG-2 Program Stream << { 1 vid, 1 aud }

              Sys Bitrate: 10080 kb/s VBR

              Audio;

              Codec- AC3 Info- 0xbd[0x80]:48000Hz  448 kb/s tot , 6 chnls (3/2 .1)

              Status- Codec installed

              Video;

              Codec- MPEG2, Status- Codec installed

              Rendering appears successful

               

              When I run these files through media players outside PPro the audio works fine (the audio even works in "bridge")

               

              Unfortunately I'm in Dili for a week so cant check on the editing computer but will install GSpot and run checks when I get back.

              As suggested by Bill I will check the little blue Progress Bar at the lower-right-hand side of the PrPro GUI when I import the MPEG's, and check for "confirming audio", As well as trying to use the Koyote converter

               

              More information about how to "To work with AC3 sound files in Premiere CS3, copy the ad2ac3dec.dll file from the Encore CS3 directory into the Premiere directory" as suggested by John would be appreciated

               

              Thank Heaps

              • 4. Re: Loss of audio when importing
                John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                XML files are not video... they are command files... for example, a PPro project file is XML

                 

                Your sound IS ac3, so you need to copy the dll as I directed... there is no more information about that... just use Windows Explorer to find the dll in the Encore directory and COPY (not move!!!) it to the Premiere directory

                 

                Good luck... and next time, don't jump into production with an untested piece of equipment

                • 5. Re: Loss of audio when importing
                  Level 4

                  Hmmm,

                   

                  The gspot report is very similar to what I got when I renamed those safari DVD vob files " mpeg " and didn't have sound in CS3...

                  The file played OK in streamclip ( sound and video ) but not in media classic or QT ( no sound )...and in PPro ony video shows for the mpeg.

                   

                  Here's the gspot info from that renamed vob (mgeg)

                  vob renamed mpeg.jpg

                  Very similar info....but no sound in PPro on timeline.

                   

                  Then ( to work around ) I converted in streamclip to AVI... and although streamclip showed video picture during conversion, in the end all I got out of the AVI was the sound....which was the same length as the video ...so they were in sync ( linked in PPro )

                   

                  here's picture of timeline with those files

                  vob(mpeg)-avi - timeline.jpg

                  I put audio on that channel in above pic to show there is no video to it.

                   

                  There was a thread about this safari catastrophe due to out of sync sound after importing 6 vob files (renamed mpeg) and doing some edting and exporting a test...as I tested this whole process throughout ...eventually finding out that Ann Bens was right in the beginning....don't edit from DVD files...use capture..but that's my own story...not relevant here unless poster tries for this workaround

                   

                  I have AC3 dll in premiere dir and the ac3 free utility ( filter ) for directshow etc...

                   

                  Rod

                  • 6. Re: Loss of audio when importing
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    As John points out, this is just a Copy process in Windows Explorer. John has given you the name of the .dll. I only had the EncoreDVD 2.0 version, and while similar, would have been confusing.

                     

                    Up through CS3, one just did the Copy to the PrPro folder. CS4 through CS4.1 (IIRC) had no cure, but with CS4.2, full AC3 support was added, so this operation was no longer required.

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                     

                    PS note that if you do not have the SurCode DD 5.1 SS plug-in, you will be downmixing your 5.1 SS Audio stream to 2-channel stereo.

                     

                    PPS - I also feel that 5.1 Audio, recorded on a camera is usually a bad idea to begin with. There are Audio signals that are usually unwanted. I would turn this OFF on the camera. The recording of good 5.1 requires 6 well-designed and well-placed mics, a mixing console, a multi-track recorder and a trained Audio team. The on-camera 5.1 is a marketing trick that usually produces Audio that must be heavily manipulated to be acceptable.

                     

                    Message was edited by: Bill Hunt - Added PPS

                    • 7. Re: Loss of audio when importing
                      Level 4

                      The on-camera 5.1 is a marketing trick that usually produces Audio that  must be heavily manipulated to be acceptable.

                       

                      seems to be a lot of marketing trickery going on IMO....  but during a revolution it's hard to just blow it all off with sound byte one liners..."tricks are for kids"

                      I love it when someone answers someone's distress with helpful links and facts instead of those silly one liners...

                       

                       

                      Rod

                      • 8. Re: Loss of audio when importing
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        Rod,

                         

                        Not sure that I am following you - two very long nights of events have left me a bit foggy, so please pardon my density.

                         

                        What happens when one is doing DD 5.1 SS on-camera is that they have have basically 5 mics, that capture from the camera. These mics point in different directions, but from the camera. The LFE is usually a filtered signal, comprised of Audio input from the 5 mics.

                         

                        Now, if one has set up the camera in a perfect position, and the Audio signals are perfect, things will be OK, but may need to be tweaked. However, in shooting, the camera is usually NOT in an ideal position, so many, if not most, of the signals picked up are NOT what the videographer will want. Things like the cameraperson's clothing rustling, traffic, or dialog coming from off-camera, will be picked up. Most of these are unwanted, and will need to be "cleaned up," in post.

                         

                        If one is shooting in a room, that has good acoustics, and those characteristics are just what one needs to establish the setting, then so long as the camera is locked done, and no one on-set makes any noise, things will probably fly. Shoot in a room, where the rear ambiance does not match what the viewer thinks it should, then the rear-channel Audio will need work to bring it into the proper sound field.

                         

                        When doing professional 5.1 recording, one will choose specific mics. to pick up the types of sound required, and then those signals will be mixed on-set and recorded as 5, or 6 discrete Audio signals. Those will be brought into the NLE, or the Audio-editing program, for "assembly." In Audition, or PrPro, those signals can be isolated and located, plus can be manipulated. Effects, like Reverb and Delay can be used to increase, or decrease the aural size of a room, and create the illusion that the unseen walls are more, or less acoustically reflective, than they are. The sound team, however, has probably already addressed most of these issues by mic. choice and placement.

                         

                        Note: the LFE channel is not really meant for bass reproduction. It is Low Frequency Effects, and should contain mostly those, low frequency effects. With the on-camera recording, there is usually an EQ circuit, that just mixes the lower frequency sounds with a gate used to strip out mid-range and higher frequencies. Seldom are any real low frequency effects used. In professional 5.1, most bass is fed to the full-range regular speakers, L, R, C, Ls and Rs. Add a big rumble SFX for a stone sphere rolling down a mountain, and that would go into the LFE channel.

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: Loss of audio when importing
                          Level 4

                          Hi Bill,

                          No, I'm on a different plane at this point...not on same page...wasn't talking about your input earlier...but I have to admit I love what you said in response..cause it cleared up what on camera 5.1 can and can't do.

                           

                          I have an example of where I'm coming from:

                          I'm on a job ( Mayor Of NY - shooting title ).  Spike lee (dir) , Barry Levinson (prod).  Never saw the light of day, this " tv pilot "....won't go into my own speculation why not...

                           

                          I'm yappin with my camera operator and he says, " cue me when the guys get out of the SUV "...  It's night and hard to see down the block from where I am....he's on a long lens,  REALLY long lens..super speed prime...locked off. dolly...not camera.

                           

                          I go out into street a bit ( my dolly and his camera on sidewalk , so we are out of OTHER camera shots...on edge of frames, multiple cameras...action stuff going on here...you know???...we are on edge of frame of other cameras...) and look at what I might see to give him a cue.

                           

                          I say to him, "How about if I make some kind of noise, like a cat's meow ?...Like, I say ( and here I try my best to imitate a cat ), "MEOW! "

                           

                          The AC and operator look at me like I'm nuts, and I say, " OK...that won't work unless we actually SEE the cat....( for sound reasons...it's best to have stuff that makes noise IN THE SHOT )....so I say, "How about I make the cat noise and at the same time I THROW A CAT THROUGH THE FRAME?"

                           

                          This illicits some snickers and we are now having a fun time...It's raining, I got umbrellas over the camera and dolly and we are pretty miserable at this stage of the night....but trying to work out when he should "anticipate" the action and not be taken by surprise...it's a wheeled head and smooth, but if you miss the action and have to catch up it looks bad......  we are pros, you understand ?

                           

                          Soooo, when I say stuff about what's going on in this forum about sound, shooting, what's best in terms of quality...ESPECIALLY editing...which is the reason adobe sponsors this forum for everyone....I am trying to make some improvement...I am NOT trying to make fun of somone who is stressed out or simply ignorant ( like myself for example, when it comes to editing )....

                           

                          Frankly I don't know how a camera can have sound attached to it at all....as I am used to all kinds of mics and sound people with multiple booms and wireless and so on...and sync'd with clappers and all that...so having sound on camera to me is just junk to begin with anyway, IMO....

                          BUT...and it's a big BUT.... things are improving technically and I am very much into helping any way I can to make a good product no matter how it's done...and I've seen some good stuff from documentaries and industrials and so on that use the camera sound abilities. I'm NOT a snob about this...and am here to either help or learn...simple as that.

                           

                          Rod

                          • 10. Re: Loss of audio when importing
                            the_wine_snob Level 9
                            Frankly I don't know how a camera can have sound attached to it at all....as I am used to all kinds of mics and sound people with multiple booms and wireless and so on...and sync'd with clappers and all that...so having sound on camera to me is just junk to begin with anyway, IMO....

                             

                            Pretty much, I agree with you on this. However, I am anything but a sound-guy - only had two semesters of it, but have used it at some level for years. Way back, we had NO wireless mics, so everything had to be done otherwise. This could be PZM's placed in exacting spots, shotguns on monster booms, wielded by The Incredible Hulk for hours, and cables hidden every which way.

                             

                            I do some of my shooting with a shotgun on the camera, and only use the built-in mics for my personal fun stuff. When I do commercial shooting, I only work with a sound crew. It's like lighting commercial architecture - only with a herd of gaffers and an assistant.

                             

                            I like the "throw the cat," as that was immediately what I thought of, when the sound guy said he had to see the cat. Cannot recall the title of the Philippe Halsman photograph with Salvador Dali off the ground, while painting and one cat flying across the image with a big splash of water following close behind and two other cats in midair.

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 11. Re: Loss of audio when importing
                              ruma bambusa Level 1

                              Well some good advice there

                               

                              I will try the conversion idea and copy the suggestion  "To work with AC3 sound files in Premiere CS3, copy the ad2ac3dec.dll file from the Encore CS3 directory into the Premiere directory"

                               

                              Unfortunatly I we will all have to wait till Im back out in the district to try it on the editoring computer next week, so keep posted for the results

                               

                              Cheers

                              • 12. Re: Loss of audio when importing
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                One correction:

                                 

                                LFE is Low Frequency Enhancement (not Effects, as I mis-spoke). The reason for the ".1" designation is that it has 1/10 the bandwidth, as the other 5 channels, and usually has a +10dB enhancement, due to the human ear's inability to hear the lower frequencies.

                                 

                                The cutoff for the material in the LFE channel will differ for home theater vs commercial theater mixes. In the former, the cutoff is usually at 80 Hz and for the latter, usually at 120 Hz.

                                 

                                The LFE signal is more often "felt," than "heard."

                                 

                                Sorry for my mistakes, as I should know better. I blame it on having done a Riesling tasting before and the lateness of the hour here in the desert. Note to self: make sure to have someone edit your posts, if you have been drinking...

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: Loss of audio when importing
                                  Level 4

                                  Bill,

                                   

                                  Talking about wireless mics...have you ever used wireless video taps on film cameras ? Or wireless tap on video camera?

                                   

                                  I have this little 4" TV thing (sony or RCA ) with a single telescope antenna, that you can get those channels on ( UHF ? ) and used to use it often on the back of the dolly....so I could help the operator get a " dirty " single for example...make minute adjustments on dolly for the coverage ...and then the DP would come over at some point and switch it to something like " Tubby the Tugboat" or " Bill the Builder "....LOL...gotta have fun you know?

                                   

                                  Rod

                                  • 14. Re: Loss of audio when importing
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    Rod,

                                     

                                    I have not. Maybe I could get one of those units, as my puppies really love Clifford the Big Red Dog. Maybe I could play it in the kennel? Well, actually, they have a 46" HD TV in the kennel (it is also the exercise room), and I just put PBS on for them, so long as it is not some political, "talking head" show. For those, the dogs like Fox News...

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: Loss of audio when importing
                                      Level 4

                                      alas, it won't work anymore...- the pbs shows-....tap still works OK......digital tv signal now

                                       

                                      ( bummer )

                                       

                                      Rod

                                      • 16. Re: Loss of audio when importing
                                        Level 4

                                        Bill,

                                         

                                        Please forward to the dogs  ---on today

                                         

                                         

                                        clifford.jpg

                                         

                                        "Good-Bye T-Bone; The Truth About Dogs and Cats"
                                        Clifford and Cleo think T-Bone is moving away; the dogs try to get rid of some cats.

                                        • 17. Re: Loss of audio when importing
                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                          Thanks for that. Not sure what the draw was, but both dogs really loved Clifford, Sagua, The Chinese Siamese Cat and something called Arthur. I never knew what he was, dog, bear, rat, other? All other programs, cartoons or other, seemed to leave them bored. These three caught their attention and in a big way. They would sit at attention until each was over.

                                           

                                          Now, the female seems to like Fox News. One slightly odd thing, in the Landcruiser, the dogs hated talk radio, and really calmed down with "cool jazz."

                                           

                                          Thanks,

                                           

                                          Hunt