Just an observation from many other Adobe fora. The "pros" are moving on, unfortunately. This does not mean from the product, but from the fora. This has been especially decried in the PS forum. Most of the questions there are on why the trial does not install on a 386SX. Few ask "how do I do this neat editing?" I seem similar in the PrPro forum.
My suggestion would be to create an Installation sub-forum. Rod, Robodog, suggested a "Newbie" sub-forum, and that is being discussed.
You make a great point that CS5 is a major departure. Maybe it will deserve its own sub-forum, as there will be unique OS and hardware questions, and issues. Time will likely tell.
My predictions is that things will break out this way:
70% of the posts will be, "why can't I install CS5 on my Windows 3.1.1 machine?," or very similar.
20% "why can't I install CS5 on my 64-bit OS?"
9% "why is CS5 such a POS, that it will not edit my helmet-cam's Xvid footage?"
1% "how do I get the best from my appropriate footage on a top-notch 64-bit machine, with CS5?"
I hope that I am very wrong and just being cynical.
Good luck in the pursuit of this topic. I have done my best, short of raining on anyone's parade. Please prove me wrong and the cynical "old-man," that my young wife tells me that I am.
Just an observation from many other Adobe fora. The "pros" are moving on, unfortunately.
Thats kind of the point and part of my reasoning behind it. The flattened forums encouraged the mix.
(BTW - I suspect J.S is lurking around here again.)
1 person found this helpful
Since CS5 is going to be hardware and OS specific... 64bit only... I agree there should be a CS5 sub-forum
1 person found this helpful
I would second your suggestion for a separate CS5 forum. Because:
1. It is as others mentioned a completely different hardware and software platform.
2. Initially it will be the pro's moving to CS5, not the occasional user with antiquated equipment.
3. The questions asked will mostly be about functionality/workflow, not the time consuming type of questions Bill so eloquently used.
BTW, I guess we all find 4.2.1 to be very stable. I guess that is a reason the pro's are not present much more. It just works.
I wrote the next paragraph in response to the other thread, then the (still frustrating for me) "new" forum software left it sitting.
In spite of the new technology in CS5, I don't think it changes the equation from the last time the structure of the Premiere fora were discussed. Of regular visitors to the fora, who is NOT going to be interested in tracking CS5 whether they get it or not? (I'm still CS3, and I find that most posters identify in their topic or fairly soon in a post.) I like flat. Then again, It took me only two months to figure out that I was not subscribed to the hardware forum. Wondered what happened to all that.
Now, having read the latest responses, I have the same opinion. The hardware issues will belong in the hardware subforum, and yes, they will be significant. The operating system issues have been, and will continue to be an issue, but they won't be truly unique any more than they have been for a variety of other releases.
I don't think the pro vs not pro (whatever that really means in today's world - there are lots of people using adobe products to make money who are pretty ignorant and there are lots of pretty competent users who got there without a formal education or systematic reading of the manual and we all have moments when we forget how to do something that won't jump out of the help files etc). To the extent that pros will congregate, it won't be in a forum mixed with all other users (by definition the nature of the adobe fora). My context is the truly pro level listserve I lurk in for After Effects. Hardware and operating system issues are certainly present, but the questions relate much more to achieving effects. I don't object to the adobe premiere forum they are simply different things. I love that there are skilled users who will help users here.
What would help this forum? A better search engine. It is still pathetic when you get better search results on google than you do in the forum search. (It may be better lately, I can't tell.)
I'd have no problem with a required checkbox when a poster starts a topic that requires that they pick a version of Premiere (including revision), primary hardware, and operating system - and allowing a don't know or the equivalent - add it later - something simple enough that it doesn't make it a problem for users. The forum software is already running such a ridiculous amount of code that this couldn't hurt anything. It's basically a keyword system that codes each topic. Hey, the mods could add this to each topic!
In the CS4 cycle, what one subforum would have been warranted? AME!
From time-to-time and also fora-to-fora, a suggestion has been made that users fill in their systems data in their sig. In the older Pinnacle/AVID fora, that was highly encouraged. Now, many of us are on several boxes, and the one in the sig might not be the one with an issue. Also, can you imagine how long Harm's sig would be... ?
I do like the radio buttons for version # though. Even with the encouragement to list the version in the title, most users do not bother, or consider how helpful that can be. Heck, sometimes it's not until 20 replies, that we ever get that info, if at all. That is the reason that I nearly always type "Project/Sequence Presets," to cover all bases. Same thing in the Elements forum, where I type "Export/Share," as in recent versions, Export has been stripped down to just Export>Frame, or Export>Title and everything regarding what we call Export is now under the Share tab. I've never been comfortable with that terminology, but that's another story for another forum.
I think that Craig has opened an interesting thread here, and appreciate the thoughts of other forum subscribers. Each makes good points. Whatever the outcome of the release of CS5 and the forum layout, I'll get by. As I am strongly considering CS5, I want to see reports from the field. I will also be considering a new box, so I'll be hangin' in the Hardware Forum a lot too. Maybe I could entice Harm to just send me one of his "cast offs," and save me a bunch of work and $... ?
Whatever happens, I'll roll with the punches,
I see that Craig has awarded you points for your views, which concur with his. Maybe I need to rethink my position on this and my opposition to breaking out the CS5 forum.
You are witty, charming, so very intelligent, your wife is lovely and your dog is the best-behaved that I have ever seen. I agree with everything that you say, and cannot imagine how I could have harbored opposing thoughts.
Groveling for points!!!!!
PS - you guys DO make some good points, and I could easily understand if the MOD's took your view. I'll still play, regardless.
Since I'm not a Mod I have no idea how difficult this would be... but I see only 2 changes
At the main forum http://forums.adobe.com/community/premiere add a new sub-forum
Premiere Pro CS5 Discussions ONLY
Then, in this general Premiere Pro forum, and new (large & bright) link at the top
For CS5 - Go to Premiere Pro CS5 Discussions ONLY
There will, of course, be new and/or clueless people who post in the wrong forum... but that happens now in the PreEl and old Premiere forums, and the regulars simply post a reply with a link to the correct forum
Also, don't forget those users, who manage to fall through "rabbit holes," and end up in the wrong forum, just by accessing the fora from the right, or wrong, point.
Half the posts to the Forum Comments forum seem to get there, while trying to post into, say the Acrobat Pro, or Photoshop, or Dreamweaver fora.
That will continue to happen regardless of a big, flashing neon sign.
Very cool thread. And I'm wishy washy...at first I thought the initial post made perfect sense right off the bat. Then I thought , "Hunt has a good point from a teacher's point of view ", and every post made perfect sense to the extent that pretty soon I was making fish motions with my mouth and swiveling my eyes around on stalks.... ( been reading PG Wodehouse )
This forum asks right away, "Please state what version of Premiere you are using"...which isn't always followed by posters.
Not to mention all the other suggestions about posting info about platforms, specific "action" of problem occurring etc.
And then there's the question of " pros " and how to define that. I would say it's market share for movies and TV productions right now, though obviously that is in itself a can of worms ( turnkey solutions at large editing houses, studios, etc ). The company " Adobe " , is trying to gain market share in both the movie world and the high school football video world...and they are both ( in my opinion ) " pros " who do that stuff....
Notwithstanding some superficial description of market share it's probably a good idea for Adobe to partner with some computer makers and video card makers to manufacture a " basic " PC based 64 bit editing platform, just by licensing...they don't have to make the darn things, they just put it together and offer it online... no overhead much...get an order, put it through, make the computer...deliver it with software....done deal....
Anyway, that would solve half or more of the hardware issues right off the bat.
As for the "learning how to edit" and how to solve problems, I'm not sure a separate forum would be necessary for CS5 if people posted what version they were using in the subject line of the postings. That could be a drop down menu or bullet or whatever before the mssg input screen comes up....
How about a timeframe of 4-6 months to see how many bugs might be inherent in the marketing timeline of the new software vs actual testing on hardware combinations ( the usual problem with new software with multiple hardware manufacturers )...and see if it then warrants a new forum section?
Dont get too hung up on defining "pros". The idea is NOT to create some sort of exclusive forum (Pros ONLY).
I would be hoping that a CS5 Forum would be kind of the instant-go-to place for anyone making the major upgrade involved with CS5 .
In the past every upgrade gets an immediate massive influx of posts . These die away after 1st and 2nd patches.
I anticipate this will happen again with CS5 and I for one would like to be focussed on the task without the distractions of the current forum. My goal as usual will be to get it up and running and productice ($) ASAP
I guess that suggestion about having a drop down list or bullet "choice" about what version posters are using , BEFORE they get the text input box for posting, which automatically ( from the forum server code...in this case jsp? ) puts that info into the subject line...would in effect create that forum without moving it to a totally different database...know what I mean? It would do what you want, but would still be here.
This would probably have to be done on the Jive end, and might require a bit of programing. Not sure what Adobe's contract with Jive is, but I would guess that this would be a major expense. Remember - only a guess.
This forum is powered by Jive 2.5.16 but I've seen it mentioned in the forum discussion forum that Jive is up to version 4
I seriously doubt that Adobe is going to pay Jive to do any added programming for this forum
I agree with you. Not sure how easy it is to modify the Jive software, and add features. Now, the MOD's can split things out, and do other tasks, but the general format will remain the same.
Just an observation,
A crazy idea...but thought I'd mention it...
I have a server that is a pretty good company...US based...and real good with support...called Inmotion Hosting...at this link..
I have the "business / power " account...
There's info about some of the supported programming and API stuff at this link:
It supports php and mysql and dreamweaver, apache and a bunch of stuff....which means someone could program a front end for a message board and create a place for users to go and share info about CS5 and new issues...
You're welcome to use the account Shooternz if you want, as there is unlimited bandwidth and disk space ( I only use FTP for transferring video files and stuff )...
And it's only about $120 / year if you want to get your own account...
Flash and Dreamweaver make it pretty easy to program a message board type thing , and mysql is open source ...etc ...a programmer wouldn't have too much trouble putting a "forum" type something together.
ps. My brother's been programming something called " silverlight " or something like that..the microsoft dot net based programming stuff...and swears it's easy to make sites with total functionality, including real good streaming video ( NFL is using it )... but using .net might have to be licensed...just a thought..
Good to know that CS5 is coming soon.
But I can't help feeling a bit of sadness; let me explain.
I've been using Premiere as my primary editing platform since high school. I've edited most of my films on it, and now I'm in my final weeks of film school. I've also been introduced to Sony Vegas, Final Cut and Avid. At home however, Adobe Premiere has been my choice. The problem is that every version of Premiere has been flawed in some way. I remember running Premiere 5 and 6 back in the day, and having to hit Control + S several times a minute just to prepare for crashes. No, I'm not running pirated software.
Nothing's changed, and I'm running CS4. In my last two film projects, I've had 2 corrupt .prproj files and dozens of sudden crashes.
My experience with troubleshooting has been bad too. Coming onto these forums I can sometimes find answers I need, but more than half the time I do not. The closest I get is usually a few tid bits here and there - usually having to scroll through sarcastic posts by forum usuals.
Adobe, please make Premiere Pro CS5 rock solid. Make sure it can handle LOTS of HD footage, with tons of marked and color labelled clips. Even if you have to sacrifice a bit of speed, please don't release it until it rarely to never crashes. Please support industry standards like AAF properly - without crashing or hanging.
Also consider adding a proper bob+weave deinterlacing method for mixed format projects.
Edited for content:
>Adobe, please make
Since this is a USER TO USER forum, not Adobe support, and as the
only way another user could reply is if they had that same problem
and had a solution, you may need to contact Adobe for help, or to
report problems or ask for new features directly at Adobe, click
- do be sure to include all information, so they may reproduce the problem
A lot of interesting ideas here, and on the earlier thread; all worthy of careful consideration.
We moderators have been discussing among ourselves what the CS5 release means in terms of this forum. Being a rather conservative group, we have decided to take a wait and see approach, keeping things as they are until we can judge how and to what extent the activity here is affected by the new version. If circumstances warrant, we'll take another look at it downstream.
In the mean time, one of the suggestions made here that should be addressed sooner is how better to encourage posters to include version and system information with their questions. Obviously, just saying it should be done hasn't worked very well in all cases. The ideas for how to do this, posted here and other places, are certainly part of the mix being examined.
Thanx Jerry for the info.
Only thing I would comment on regarding ...the wait and see" approach:
Once the initial CS5 threads start rolling in, my guess is they are going to be the more "valuable" ones in terms of content and subsequently worth being part of the "knowledge-base".
These will be the ones that contain the vital Hardware /Software/OS setups that make CS5 fly.
These will be where the early "bugs" and difficulties are reported.
Many of the CS5 early adopters will be setting up Hardware /Software/OS simultaneously , unlike previous Updates of Premiere (Suites). Because of this, I expect to be reading a lot of posts (for my own education) in the early days of the release.
Once all these posts become "embedded" in the current forum...they will be difficult to extract later (to a sub-forum) or find ( especially considering the lousy search function)
Just my thoughts... but if it gets too hard...I will have to become a reader and not a contributor. ("time is money").
I expect my setup process to take 3 months minimum and that assumes no early patches are required (as per CS4 - which was released too early IMHO).
I think at a minimum we can collect these CS5 issues and beef up our little faq with some new content we cant point too. It would indeed be ashame to loose the wealth of info that will pop up with the early adopter q&a.
I just had this brainstorm idea...while sitting in the lounge by the plastic plant with a beer....
A friend recently told me that for him using a particular "camera" was almost the same as choosing a " film stock " ( we were talking about comparing digital to film ). Each one apparently has a sort of particular look and ability, etc....
I also noticed in my short time searching for info about editing in general that there are a LOT of camera specific forums that have areas for the different editing programs ( premiere, fcp, avid ).
Maybe in the future this should be considered...that the solutions and help and sharing of information about CS5 can somehow also include what camera is being used for the shoot ? I'm new at this but my sense is that the RED camera has different issues and "look" than the Panavision thing....or the Arri thing....and that they all might be important in terms of the forum's ability to separate and parse and correlate info about what's going on .....???
Just a thought.... Like, first off, " what version of premiere are you using" , and then, " what camera are you using ?"....
After all, Like Shooternz said, this is a major investment in new stuff and the bottom line sometimes comes down to time and money and maybe what camera is doing the shooting too ??
In my opinion - Cameras and camera "looks" is not the realm of the editor and
therefore not within the scope of Premiere Forum.
Discussion of such would add to complicate things un necessarily and there are forums dedicated to the topic.
Of course camera tech specs , formats, codec etc are an issue that the editor may need to know but that is a different matter.
Personally I always enjoy seeing a challenging "editing" question posted. We used to get a lot of those but now its all based on about ten issues with about 25 various correct answers. eg why do I have black borders in my movie?
Of course camera tech specs , formats, codec etc are an issue that the editor may need to know but that is a different matter.
That's what I meant...it is the major matter..problems with shooting from camera to delivery conduit...using CS5...only if there are problems of course....
so why not include that info?
I want to be " artistic" and edit....not solve tech problems ....so I hear what you're saying
I spoke with a sales rep today and I am really anxious to get CS5!
I say anything CS5 related should have a CS5 dedicated area. The things coming out in CS5 are game changers. IMO.
I added a few "seed topics" to the CS5 FAQ just to give an idea how we can build it out to contain some (hopefully) helpful info. Again; we dont see the FAQ as a discussion area. We want to keep it very clean and just contain a collection of knowledge/faqs about CS5
The specified item was not found.
As a "pro" who no longer spends much time around here, I suppose I could chime in.
In fact, for the last two years or so, I have only poked around when there was an update, to see what issues people might be having, or things such as that.
I still have the feeds turned on, but mostly I delete all the notifications once they arrive without much more than a scan.
I can't say it has much of anything to do with the layout of the fora, because I don't even know the last time I accessed them through the front door.
The thing that made me stop hanging around was partly because of some of that type of person who always hangs around a forum like this and insists upon their own way, hogging every new thread that pops up with their "look at me!" attitude and telling everyone how they posted wrong, or should have searched or just ought to buy Premiere Elements. After Premiere v6.5, I seldom had questions of my own to ask. However, I stuck to my guns here for a long time because I just wanted to be helpful to the newbies and other folks with questions I could answer, even if those questions were answered on page two of the (now digital) manual.
I enjoy good commentary, feedback, helpfulness and general "lounging" at a few other sites out there which I could name, and all without a bunch of bickering and holier-than-thou crap. Even elsewhere, if you would notice, when a newbie posts a rather dumb (and often posted) question like "how do I make my movie look like hollywood?" you will see helpful answers provided, to the degree that it's possible. Even when it's not possible to do much about the many ridiculous inquiries, the other users are typically quite kind in their rebuke, such as it is.
So perhaps I don't help with that problem by removing myself entirely from this forum, but let's face it, I'm a bit outnumbered by the other n'er say well folks around here.
And quite honestly, in spite of the poor economy, I'm doing more business than I can handle so I just don't have time and mental capacity to mess with the hot air of some people around here.
If you are feeling particularly offended by my remarks, I may be speaking about you. Otherwise, the rest of you are all fine in my book. It's like they say, one bad apple and all that...
All that being said, a perhaps more helpful remark regarding the topic of this thread....I know that as for myself and many other Premiere Pro users that I am in contact with, we have all been on a 64-bit OS for nearly the entire release of CS4 (Vista 64). I will be upgrading to Windows 7 once CS5 is out, but not much else will change. I will probably upgrade my video card if necessary (probably) but that is of little concern to me since my current card is a 3 year old Quadro needing updating. But honestly, everything is so cheap now in terms of computer power, storage and the like that I can't really complain. It's a money thing for me...if the cost of the upgrade and the necessary hardware changes are all justified by increased speed (MPE and full 64-bit code) then it pays for itself. Already I'm able to render 3-4 times as much content as prior to CS4. For the forum separation, I don't see much difference for whether it is CS4 or CS5. The only major requirement that will be new to CS5 is the processor and OS requirements (64-bit) and I think Adobe has been and will be making a big enough show over that issue that most should not come without noticing. The other new features will obviously be world changing to those of us who use CS4 daily, but will not be such a drastic departure overall from the general process of editing video. MPE is amazing...but it will just "happen" when you press spacebar. In a year, we may forget they ever called it MPE and just regard it as "playback."
Sorry for the rant, guess I'm making up for lost time. See you all after the CS5 release.
I wondered where you went - nice to have you back even if it's only for a post or two.
As for "lounging", be careful if you head down to the Video Lounge. Bill Hunt was banished to the corner behind the plastic plant and he'll steal the wine right out of your hand if you get too close. I thought I could hold him off by only drinking really cheap wine, but he's been behind the plant for so long now that it seems he doesn't even care if the wine bottle has a screw top.
You do know that the banishment ended last week, don't you?
See what happens when they give marginally-competent forum members like me moderator powers? I tried to use them for good, not evil, but I just couldn't help myself.
Christian, the tone here has changed substantially. I was distressed by the same problems you describe (and posted a few times about them), and have been pleased with the change.
You do know that the banishment ended last week, don't you?
Ended last week!?!? You've got to be kidding me, right?
Shouldn't someone have told me?
You mean that I have been drinking Ripple a week longer than necessary?
Well, gotta' go, the dust on the plastic plant was starting up my asthma! Maybe a good cigar will clear that up...
BTW - Welcome back Christian, even if the visit is brief. Always appreciated your observations and help, when you had more time (and inclination) to spend here. Take care.
You folks are too kind...my head is in danger of 'sploding.
Regarding Hunt...good for me then that I'm more of a beer and Waffle House kind of guy. Gee, if only they served Guiness with my hash browns....scattered, covered, smothered and brewed.
Central meeting place in the TV series "Dead Like Me" was Der Waffle House... but I don't think they served beer
And, since this has gone WAY off track... and since the new forum decision has been made... I think I'll just wait for the official product launch next week, to see what is really going to be in CS5