19 Replies Latest reply on Apr 1, 2010 6:59 PM by Jeff Bellune

    Adobe Premiere CS4 and lossless HDV

    Morriswald Level 1

      I have this pc configuration:

       

      Zalman ZM750 HP Power Supply 750W
      ASUS P7P55D PRO, Intel P55
      Intel CPU Intel Quad Core i7 860 (2.8GHz) Socket-1156 1333MHz 8MB Cache 64bit 95W Lynnfield B1 Boxed
      DDR3: Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1600MHz 4GB CL8
      Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 1TB

       

      and I am running adobe Premiere in Windows Vista. I have exported some clips in 1920X1080 Quicktime "animation"

      from After effects and imported them into Premiere för editing. The total size of the clips / around 10gb

       

      The problem is the speed , I had big hopes of being able to play hvd files whitout slowdowns in Premiere

      but the playback is sometimes very laggy. Is this normal or I am doing anything wrong I thought a

      computer with this hardware would be able to handle hdv lossless in realtime.

       

      Thank you

        • 1. Re: Adobe Premiere CS4 and lossless HDV
          dradeke Adobe Employee

          Quicktime Animation, while very good for preserving quality is also very big and not good for playback.  I would recommend some kind of codec that is smaller and fits your criteria - but I'm not sure what that is.  If you're looking for a good video codec for editing and playback that's native to PRemiere Pro, there are several.  The first one that comes to mind would be P2 which is a Panasonic format.  Export the movie that way and then import the resulting clip into Premiere Pro and see how it looks.

           

          I hope this helps,

          Dennis

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Adobe Premiere CS4 and lossless HDV
            Harm Millaard Level 7

            The CPU and memory in your setup are OK, but you are not meeting minimum requirements and that is the reason for the slowdown.

             

            Absolute minimum is a DEDICATED 7200 RPM SATA disk, but better is to add at least two additional disks.

             

            Have a look at the second link here: How to get the best from a PC? Some guides...

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Adobe Premiere CS4 and lossless HDV
              Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              HDV is 1440x1080 so exporting to 1920x1080 makes the file huge.

              You can purchure the Mainconcept plugin that does Smart Render.

              Also you could consider NeoScene Cineform.

              I like it very much, edits faster than native hdv.

              I think the Panasonic p2 codec only works with Panasonic avchd camera's.

              • 4. Re: Adobe Premiere CS4 and lossless HDV
                Morriswald Level 1

                Ok , thank you for the answers , what do you mean by dedicated?

                I have never had any problems with seagate disks before and the rpm speed

                should be ok. Do you suggest I sould get a second disk and configurate them for raid?

                Or replace the seagate sata disk I have now with something else ,any suggestion?

                • 5. Re: Adobe Premiere CS4 and lossless HDV
                  Morriswald Level 1

                  Thank you Ann , - I will look into that.


                  • 6. Re: Adobe Premiere CS4 and lossless HDV
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    You now have ONE disk. A dedicated disk means that you have your OS & programs on one disk and your project, media and scratch files on another disk. So that requires TWO disks.

                     

                    In terms of performance, certainly on your system, I would suggest to get a 150 G Velociraptor for OS & programs and get another Seagate 7200.12 (which have a much better reputation than the 7200.11 series, which was a complete disaster) as a third disk. I would use them like this:

                     

                    Disk 2: Fixed page file of 12 GB, media cache, and exports

                     

                    Disk 3: Projects, media and scratch (for easy administration of your files)

                     

                    I would advise against a raid0, because the risk of losing everything is too great. See my guide on Raids: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/525263

                     

                    If you follow this advise it requires a fresh install of everything, so make sure that you de-activate CS4 before starting.

                    • 7. Re: Adobe Premiere CS4 and lossless HDV
                      Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      If you have a good back up system there is nothing wrong with RAID0, have been using it for years.

                      Never losst data yet, nor have the disks broken.

                      • 8. Re: Adobe Premiere CS4 and lossless HDV
                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                        Ann,

                         

                        There is a big assumption is your remark. That the OP has a backup on other disks, but when he has only 1 disk in his system, the chances that he has a dedicated backup drive are slim.

                        • 9. Re: Adobe Premiere CS4 and lossless HDV
                          Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                          I agree with Ann.  My RAID0 has been flawless.  Of course, when I invested in my RAID0, I also added a RAID5 for dedicated backup, and I invested in a fast, high-end backup program by StorageCraft that constantly backs up the changed data on my RAID0 at specific time intervals.

                           

                          I don't think that I could work or sleep if I didn't have the peace of mind that a dedicated backup system brings.

                           

                          -Jeff

                          • 10. Re: Adobe Premiere CS4 and lossless HDV
                            Morriswald Level 1

                            Ok , thank you all for your answers.

                             

                            ----

                            Has anyone tested playing uncompressed hvd (1440X1080) (avi windows) or (quicktime -animation)  in premiere ?

                             

                             

                            On mine computer the playback lags all the time.-  I thought it would be possible to play it perfectly fine with the computer spec presentented in the beginning of this thread. Does it play perfectly on yout computers?

                             

                            And again , thank you for all your tips and opinions.

                            • 11. Re: Adobe Premiere CS4 and lossless HDV
                              Morriswald Level 1

                              But the P2 seems to be a compressed format? I need to be able to work with a uncompressed format because I am working with some compositing in after effects and then I need to import the clip into premiere for editing.

                              • 12. Re: Adobe Premiere CS4 and lossless HDV
                                Morriswald Level 1

                                The p2 format played back just fine, maybe I could use the P2 format as proxy?

                                • 13. Re: Adobe Premiere CS4 and lossless HDV
                                  dradeke Adobe Employee

                                  P2 is a compressed format as are most HD formats.  I will always defer to the user, but in my opinion, uncompressed most often is a waste of data.  My basic rule of thumb is 'if it looks good, it is good'.  If P2 gives you the visual quality you find acceptable, don't feel the need to give in to uncompressed.  There are exceptions of course - mostly film.

                                   

                                  BTW - 8 bit uncompressed is around 130-165MB/s depending on the codec you use. 10 bit over 200MB/s.  Storage is cheap, but your time (rendering) isn't.

                                   

                                  Dennis

                                  • 14. Re: Adobe Premiere CS4 and lossless HDV
                                    Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                    I can play back lossless full-frame 1080i HD AVI files smoothly here in Pr CS4.  Lagarith or UT in a matching sequence.  Stored on a RAID0.  Not even defragged first.

                                     

                                    -Jeff

                                    • 15. Re: Adobe Premiere CS4 and lossless HDV
                                      Morriswald Level 1

                                      Ok , thank you again.

                                       

                                      I am working on a shortfilm and the quality needs to be quite good.The P2 format worked quite well but the image quality was a bit blurry

                                      compared to the uncompressed formats like quicktime animation or avi (lossless).

                                      • 16. Re: Adobe Premiere CS4 and lossless HDV
                                        Morriswald Level 1

                                        OK great, I wish I hade a computer that could handle that, would save me a lot of time and trouble .

                                         

                                        What computer specs do you got?

                                         

                                        Do you think It could be your raid system that does the trick?

                                        • 17. Re: Adobe Premiere CS4 and lossless HDV
                                          Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                          Dual quad-core Xeons

                                          16 GB RAM

                                          7200 RPM SATA System drive

                                          2x500GB 7200 SATA drives in a RAID0.

                                           

                                          The key to smooth playback with uncompressed is disk data throughput.  Lossless codecs like Lagarith or UT still depend on disk data throughput, but the CPU also gets involved.  In Pr with my test files, the CPU never went above 45%, so a single quad-core should be able to handle it.

                                           

                                          -Jeff

                                          • 18. Re: Adobe Premiere CS4 and lossless HDV
                                            Morriswald Level 1

                                            Thank you again!

                                             

                                            What kind of format is UT? Never heard of that.

                                             

                                            Ok your computer seems to be a lot better than mine,

                                            When I bought the computer I had big hopes in being able to play hvd files without slowdowns in Premiere.

                                            I guess I will have to put put some extra strength into my computer and try again after that , like a second hdd.

                                            Do you think a raid setup could improve my preformance.

                                             

                                            What I am after is some kind of understanding , I really would like to know if it is normal not being able to play lossless

                                            without lag with my type of computer spec. I am not sure if the computer is configured as I should be, my ram memory fo example /

                                            is set to 1333 and could handle 1600 , but I am not sure how to change that configuration on my motherboard.

                                             

                                            Could it be some kind of bootleneck in the configuration that causes the slowdowns in the plyabacks?

                                            • 19. Re: Adobe Premiere CS4 and lossless HDV
                                              Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                              What I am after is some kind of understanding , I really would like to know if it is normal not being able to play lossless

                                              without lag with my type of computer spec.

                                              Take it one step at a time.  You really do need a second hard drive as a dedicated media drive.  Start with a 7200 RPM SATA drive.  If that doesn't work, then add a third hard drive as a scratch disk.  Don't go to RAID unless the 2nd or 3rd drives don't work.

                                               

                                              You'd have a hard time playing standard def DV smoothly with only one drive in the computer.

                                               

                                              -Jeff