26 Replies Latest reply on Jun 24, 2010 6:54 AM by Dennis_AandJ

    Video card news and CS5 / MPE

    Harm Millaard Level 7


      With the upcoming launch of CS5 and the Mercury Playback Engine, this may be interesting.


      Side note: We do not yet know whether FERMI cards will be supported.


      The GTX480 has simply the fastest GPU. An average speed gain of about 15 percent from the HD 5870. The ATI costs around $ 400, while for Nvidia's latest about $ 500 is to be paid. So far there is not anything remarkable, because in hardware land there is a premium for the fastest of the fastest in our homes.


      The HD 5970 throws a spanner in the works. This dual-GPU card actually leaves the GTX480 in the dust, the performance of ATI's top model is on average around 35 percent better. The HD 5970 is again one hundred U.S. dollars more expensive than the GTX480, but both the HD 5870 and HD 5970 offer more performance per dollar.


      There are obviously more factors than price-performance ratio. The GTX480 however loses when it comes to energy usage, even when the benefits are taken into consideration. Indeed, energy consumption is only marginally lower than that of the faster HD 5970. The associated noise is also a drawback; here the HD 5870 and HD 5970 cards are the clear winners.


      Then there's more to be considered. AMD now has the Eyefinity technique with which three displays can be controlled. Nvidia counters with 3D Surround Vision: this could also be driving three screens, but there are two graphics cards in sli needed. With three 120Hz displays it is even possible to provide three displays of 3D images.


      Prospects appear bleak for the GTX480, but the card can not be discarded - at least not until the GTX480 is in the shop and the actual price is clear. If retail prices are slightly below the recommended price, while the HD 5870 prices are kept artificially expensive because of high demand, Nvidia's latest offer may be a good option. Nvidia has already stated that the cards will be fully stocked from April 12. In the more distant future may be Nvidia can improve drivers and  yields, which can push down the price further and further to improve performance. How much performance gain the card can achieve is the question. Who wants the fastest of the fastest can better invest in the HD 5970.


      Now the question arises:


      Assuming MPE will support the FERMI cards, which one is better:


      1. The ATI HD 5970 is fastest but does not benefit from CUDA and supports DX11
      2. The GTX 285 is much slower but benefits from CUDA and supports DX10
      3. The GTX 480 is slower than ATI and may benefit from MPE and supports DX11


      These are interesting times for all that want to change their graphics cards. The waiting is for some benchmark tests to shed some light on what is ahead for us.


      And let's hope Adobe extends the MPE option to include ATI cards...

        • 1. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
          Scott Chichelli Level 3

          i can comment on April 12th...

          nVidia is all i recommend for now.

           

          Scott

          ADK

          • 2. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
            John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            Waiting is correct

             

            For ME, editing SD home video and writing DVD only, with no prospect of HD and BluRay (none of my relatives has a BR player) the wait is to see what CS5 and MPE will or will not do for SD editing

             

            Since I will also have Photoshop CS5 I am, right now, leaning in favor of an ATI "something" with 1Gig of display ram

             

            But... if MPE gives a performance boost for SD editing, and that boost is large enough, I will consider spending $400 for the nVidia 285 instead of $100 for an ATI card

             

            It is going to be interesting to see what MPE really does, when CS5 is released and people begin to report real world results

            • 3. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
              Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

              Harm Millaard wrote:

               

               


              Prospects appear bleak for the GTX480, but the card can not be discarded - at least not until the GTX480 is in the shop and the actual price is clear. If retail prices are slightly below the recommended price, while the HD 5870 prices are kept artificially expensive because of high demand, Nvidia's latest offer may be a good option. Nvidia has already stated that the cards will be fully stocked from April 12. In the more distant future may be Nvidia can improve drivers and  yields, which can push down the price further and further to improve performance. How much performance gain the card can achieve is the question. Who wants the fastest of the fastest can better invest in the HD 5970.


              .

              If you want to see the EVGA 470/480 models and their list prices take a look at this link:  The LIST price of the 480 varies from $499.99 to the top of the line overclocked $649.99.  Power supply requirements 600 watts.  I have to assume that this is just for the card.

              • 4. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                Bill,

                 

                The non-overclocked version already uses 460 W under load, so you are probably correct with the 600 W figure for the overclocked model.

                • 5. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
                  Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                  Here is more data that I found on the EVGA power requirements.

                  .

                  (Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 42 Amps.) An available 6-pin PCI-E power connector and an available 8 pin PCI-E power connector MSRP: $499.99 USD

                  • 6. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
                    Doryphoros

                    So then. I wonder, will those older graphic cards 7800GT nVidia or ATI 3870 still work on CS5 though? Or we won't be able to run CS5 without these new high-end expensive cards.

                    • 7. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                      It is rather hard to believe that Adobe would willingly limit their user base to only those, who have one of the approved CUDA cards, don't you think.

                       

                      If that were the case, they would have to package one of the approved cards in the CS5 suite. I'm not sure they would like to do that. Nor can I believe that they would cut off all laptop users. So one can only assume that all previously supported graphics will continue to work, but will not profit from MPE.

                      • 8. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
                        Doryphoros Level 1

                        Yeah. I totally agree with you Harm. So as of now there's no confirmation yet. I guess have to find out in 2 weeks time.

                        • 9. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
                          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          Of course, if Adobe follows past practice, the MINIMUM hardware requirement they will list will mean the program will install and run... but be sure you allow a large time budget for doing anything

                          • 10. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
                            Scott Chichelli Level 3

                            i can say that CS5 will work on any video card (without MPE)

                            MPE is very limited in what it supports. (for now)

                            since its already been said the preliminary ones are GTX285, and Quadros 3800 and higher.

                            there is debate about more... ask me on the 12th

                             

                            Scott

                            ADK

                            • 11. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
                              LoneStar Jacque

                              Just purchased a new HP workstation with Windows 7 (says its 64 bit), Intel Core 2 Quad Processor Q9300, 1 Terabyte hard drive, 8 GB DDR3, and ATI Radeon HD 4650 graphics card - am purchasing cs5 Masters Collection when it's available. I'll be doing mostly digital video post-production work on it creating instructional DVD sets and also website video posts. Will I be in good shape to work with Premiere Pro and the new Mercury Playback Engine and all that goes with the video editing process? The video footage will be captured on Canon Mark 5 and Canon Rebel T2i mostly greenscreen footage. And by the way, is the vector keying from Ultra 2 incorporated into cs5 somewhere?

                              warmest regards,

                              LoneStar Jacque

                              • 12. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
                                John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                Take a look at what I am going to build, near the top of my notes http://www.pacifier.com/~jtsmith/ADOBE.HTM

                                 

                                You need AT LEAST 2 hard drives... one for all software and one for all data... with 3 being better so you have a drive for "scratch" files

                                 

                                DO NOT PARTITION YOUR 1T DRIVE AND EXPECT IT TO WORK WELL... you need 2 or 3 separate PHYSICAL hard drives

                                 

                                The computer I describe at my link is for CS5 and SD editing... if I were going to edit HD, I would replace that single 1T drive with a multi-drive RAID array

                                • 13. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
                                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                                  Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this newly bought system is only borderline and will not support MPE. You made the wrong choice in CPU. You need at least two additiional disks as John said, but your current configuration does not even meet minimum requirements.

                                  • 14. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
                                    LoneStar Jacque Level 1

                                    Hi Harm,

                                    Thanks for responding. I haven't yet taken the workstation out of the box

                                    and can return it which I will be glad to do. I purchased it as Sam's Club

                                    for $1300 which fit into my budget and also came with a 27" flatscreen

                                    monitor which I also needed.

                                     

                                    If I do return the system I now have would you be able to advise me as to

                                    what to buy and where? I'm pretty clueless about this part. I've always had

                                    good performance from HP but again, what would you recommend.

                                    Thanks,

                                    Jacque

                                    • 15. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
                                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                                      I would suggest an i7-9x0 on a 1366 X58 mobo and 12 GB of RAM. Plus the disks. Preferably a Velociraptor for a boot disk.

                                      • 16. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
                                        LoneStar Jacque Level 1

                                        Hi Harm,

                                        Concerning a new workstation that will run CS5 Masters Collection with our

                                        main project being digital video post production, after considering your

                                        recommendations , a budget of $2000, and talking directly to a

                                        Hewlett-Packard rep. we're looking to get an HP Z400 running Genuine Windows

                                        7 with an Intel Xeon W3503 processor, an Nvidia Quadro FX580 512MB GPU, 8GB

                                        DDR3-1333 ECC RAM (expandable to 16GB), 500GB SATA 7200 1st HDD, and 160GB

                                        SATA 10K SFF 2nd HDD.

                                         

                                        In your opinion, will this system do the job?

                                        LoneStar Jacque

                                        • 17. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
                                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                                          No. Wait until CS5 has launched and details are revealed, but the currently selected video card is a lousy choice. It is really slow...

                                           

                                          500GB SATA 7200 1st HDD, and 160GB SATA 10K SFF 2nd HDD.

                                           

                                          Sorry, I'm not familiar with any 10K SATA disk with a capacity of 160 GB, only 150,300, 450 or 600 GB. And what is SFF?

                                           

                                          The W3503 must be the budget range (slow) in comparison to the W3520 or W3540. Why go for a Xeon with limited capabilities, when you can get an i7-930 or higher for less and with more memory (12 versus 8, expandable to 24) and probably at much lower cost ?

                                           

                                          I suggest you use a Velociraptor as boot & program disk, and then get at least two 1 TB Samsung F3 or WD Caviar Black disks for page file, scratch, previews and exports, and the other one for media.

                                           

                                          HP may be limiting you in your choices or steal you blind on options, but these are such basic ingredients that everybody can add them to a system, often at less than half the price HP or Dell charge.

                                          • 18. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
                                            Scott Chichelli Level 3

                                            the specs on the HP systems are pretty weak.

                                            a Xeon 3503? no such thing.. do you mean 3530?

                                            a Xeon 3530 is the exact same thing as a Core i7 930

                                             

                                            ECC ram will slow the system down and is not needed

                                            8 gig ram is wrong for a 1366. it needs to be triple channel so 6 or 12 gig.

                                            bare minimum is 3 hard drives.

                                             

                                            as mentioned that video card is a joke. HP has a bad habbit of selling low budget card or very expensive cards.

                                            dont buy into the "quadro" name and this all is well.

                                            better to buy from a custom NLE builder

                                             

                                            Scott

                                            ADK

                                            • 19. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
                                              ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                              Considering the 295GTX replacement is not out yet, there is no reason to compare the 480GTX with the ATI 5970.  A single GPU card against a dual is not really a comparison accept to see if the software makes use of the dual GPU's. The Dual Fermi card should be out in a couple months and then we can see which DualGPU card performs better.

                                              • 20. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
                                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                I would be interested to see the difference between the GTX-480, the Quadro FX-4800 and the FirePro V8800 in comparison to the HD-5970. It would be even more interesting to see the effectcs of MPE / CS5 if not only CUDA but also OpenCL were supported. Personally I think the Quadro FX-4800 will be left in the dust.

                                                • 22. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
                                                  ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                  That is the single 480 GPU card. The Dual Fermi card is not due out for another couple months probably. Earliest I have heard is May.

                                                   

                                                  Look at the Specs on the 480 GPU and the 470GPU. The 470 is 448 Cuda Cores and the 480 is 480 Cuda cores. That tells you they are both only single GPU cards.

                                                  • 23. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
                                                    Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                                                    Sorry, since it was double width, I assumed wrong.  What size will the double GPU card end up?  Might have to be externally mounted with its own air conditioner??

                                                    • 24. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
                                                      ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                      Well the 285 and 295 were both 2 space cards so I expect the same with the Fermi cards. The power requirements on the 295 were less than expected so that may end up being the case on the equivalent Fermi card. I would expect the cooling on the 480GTX to be enough for the Dual Fermi as well since it was in the 200 series.

                                                      • 25. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
                                                        LoneStar Jacque Level 1

                                                        Thank you for your guidance. I appreciate it.

                                                        LoneStar Jacque

                                                        • 26. Re: Video card news and CS5 / MPE
                                                          Dennis_AandJ

                                                          Harm, I use the WD Caviar Black but have not tried the Samsung F3, looking on Ebay at 1TB prices I see the F3 is running 25% lower than the WD.  Now that's a difference that I'm suspicious about. I have been archiving on external Segate 1.5 TB's as they seem the best for the budget.  Any thoughts anyone?