14 Replies Latest reply on Sep 20, 2007 8:03 AM by Newsgroup_User

    CSS styles show in Safari, not Firefox

    warrenP Level 1
      If you go to http://www.noematiks.com on a Mac, the BOLD styles show in Safari but not in Firefox. Not sure about a Windows machine yet.

      The domain nameservers were changed about 32 hours ago and maybe propagation is causing this issue (thats what my host said).

      Any ideas?
        • 1. Re: CSS styles show in Safari, not Firefox
          Level 7
          Looks OK in Win FF2.0.


          --Nancy O.
          Alt-Web Design & Publishing
          www.alt-web.com


          "warrenP" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
          news:fccbi1$o89$1@forums.macromedia.com...
          > If you go to http://www.noematiks.com on a Mac, the BOLD styles show in
          Safari
          > but not in Firefox. Not sure about a Windows machine yet.
          >
          > The domain nameservers were changed about 32 hours ago and maybe
          propagation
          > is causing this issue (thats what my host said).
          >
          > Any ideas?
          >


          • 2. Re: CSS styles show in Safari, not Firefox
            warrenP Level 1
            Thanks Nancy.
            FF (or FX as they like to abbreviate it) on Mac is not working. This is quite strange; never seen anything like it.
            • 3. Re: CSS styles show in Safari, not Firefox
              Level 7

              "warrenP" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
              news:fccbi1$o89$1@forums.macromedia.com...
              > If you go to http://www.noematiks.com on a Mac, the BOLD styles show in
              > Safari
              > but not in Firefox. Not sure about a Windows machine yet.
              >
              > The domain nameservers were changed about 32 hours ago and maybe
              > propagation
              > is causing this issue (thats what my host said).

              That's unlikely.

              Is there some reason you're using a CSS class applied with a <span> to make
              those phrases bold? Why not just use <strong>? That would be more correct
              semantically (since those seems to be phrases that you want to emphasize
              strongly), and almost all browsers will display them in boldface.


              --
              Patty Ayers | Adobe Community Expert
              www.WebDevBiz.com
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              • 4. Re: CSS styles show in Safari, not Firefox
                warrenP Level 1
                That's an idea, to see if it fixes the problem. I guess I just got used to using the SPAN code that I've used over and over without a problem. Thank You.
                • 5. Re: CSS styles show in Safari, not Firefox
                  Level 7

                  "warrenP" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                  news:fccmsp$68c$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                  > That's an idea, to see if it fixes the problem. I guess I just got used to
                  > using the SPAN code that I've used over and over without a problem. Thank
                  > You.

                  It should work everywhere, and is better code. Let us know how you do.

                  --
                  Patty Ayers | Adobe Community Expert
                  www.WebDevBiz.com
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                  --


                  • 6. Re: CSS styles show in Safari, not Firefox
                    warrenP Level 1
                    I went with the <strong> code. All is good, but it doesn't clarify why the <span> code would not work like it has many times before. Another strang'ity of technology.
                    • 7. Re: CSS styles show in Safari, not Firefox
                      Level 7

                      "warrenP" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                      news:fce6uv$rbh$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                      >I went with the code. All is good, but it doesn't clarify why the
                      ><span> code would not work like it has many times before. Another
                      >strang'ity of technology.

                      Okay, but you should use <strong></strong>, if you want to write good valid
                      code.

                      I don't know why the <span> code didn't work, but because it's less than
                      correct, it doesn't seem worthwhile to figure out! :-)


                      --
                      Patty Ayers | Adobe Community Expert
                      www.WebDevBiz.com
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                      • 8. Re: CSS styles show in Safari, not Firefox
                        Level 7
                        On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 11:31:28 -0400, "P@tty Ayers ~ACE"
                        <pattyayersTAKETHISOUT@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:

                        >Okay, but you should use <strong></strong>, if you want to write good valid
                        >code.

                        I see nothing invalid about applying bold somehow other than *strong*.
                        One long time customer specifically wants some things as images
                        WITHOUT alt text as he doesn't want that text to apply to search
                        engines. Someone else may want to style text bold or italic, but does
                        not want the semantics applied. That is perfectly okay.

                        >I don't know why the <span> code didn't work, but because it's less than
                        >correct, it doesn't seem worthwhile to figure out! :-)
                        >
                        >
                        >--
                        >Patty Ayers | Adobe Community Expert
                        >www.WebDevBiz.com
                        >Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
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                        • 9. Re: CSS styles show in Safari, not Firefox
                          Level 7

                          "Mister Mustard" <mustard@hotdog.com> wrote in message
                          news:2eule318me8p6s2oh1b10l5vjnfq21c1a1@4ax.com...
                          > On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 11:31:28 -0400, "P@tty Ayers ~ACE"
                          > <pattyayersTAKETHISOUT@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:
                          >
                          >>Okay, but you should use <strong></strong>, if you want to write good
                          >>valid
                          >>code.
                          >
                          > I see nothing invalid about applying bold somehow other than *strong*.
                          > One long time customer specifically wants some things as images
                          > WITHOUT alt text as he doesn't want that text to apply to search
                          > engines. Someone else may want to style text bold or italic, but does
                          > not want the semantics applied. That is perfectly okay.

                          Of course it's OK - it's OK to write any kind of code you want. But if you
                          want clean, semantically meaningful code, it just makes more sense to mark
                          up words that are meant to be emphasized strongly as <strong> or <em>
                          rather than as <span>. <span> doesn't mean anything, while <strong> does.
                          HTML is a "markup language", meant to "mark up" text in such a way that
                          various user agents can display it in meaningful ways. Using lots of
                          meaningless tags is never as good code as using semantically meaningful
                          tags. Once you used the semantically meaningful tag, you can always
                          determine how it's displayed by applying CSS. Conveniently enough, just
                          about all browsers display <strong> in boldface, so there's usually no need
                          to apply CSS to is.

                          It's one thing if you just don't care about clean code - then it's all a
                          moot point. But it's funny that people do that - replace <em> and <strong>
                          with spans which they then style as italic and bold - because they think
                          it's *better* code because they're using CSS. That's completely backwards.
                          :-)

                          Having said that, I truly don't care what kind of code you or the original
                          poster write. Do whatever you want and have fun, and/or get the job done.
                          I'm all for that. I was just commenting on what semantically correct HTML
                          is.

                          --
                          Patty Ayers | Adobe Community Expert
                          www.WebDevBiz.com
                          Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
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                          --


                          • 10. Re: CSS styles show in Safari, not Firefox
                            Level 7
                            On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 20:34:18 -0400, "P@tty Ayers ~ACE"
                            <pattyayersTAKETHISOUT@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:

                            >Of course it's OK - it's OK to write any kind of code you want. But if you
                            >want clean, semantically meaningful code, it just makes more sense to mark
                            >up words that are meant to be emphasized strongly as <strong> or <em>
                            >rather than as <span>. <span> doesn't mean anything, while <strong> does.

                            You are presuming someone wants the semantics and I demonstrated that
                            this is sometimes not the case. I'm pretty sure I am every bit as much
                            in favor of them as are you, but there are times when you not want to
                            use them.

                            >HTML is a "markup language", meant to "mark up" text in such a way that
                            >various user agents can display it in meaningful ways. Using lots of
                            >meaningless tags is never as good code as using semantically meaningful
                            >tags. Once you used the semantically meaningful tag, you can always
                            >determine how it's displayed by applying CSS. Conveniently enough, just
                            >about all browsers display <strong> in boldface, so there's usually no need
                            >to apply CSS to is.
                            >
                            >It's one thing if you just don't care about clean code - then it's all a
                            >moot point.

                            Oh, so anyone who isn't always using semantic markup writes poor code.

                            > But it's funny that people do that - replace <em> and <strong>
                            >with spans which they then style as italic and bold - because they think
                            >it's *better* code because they're using CSS. That's completely backwards.
                            >:-)
                            >
                            No kidding.

                            >Having said that, I truly don't care what kind of code you or the original
                            >poster write. Do whatever you want and have fun, and/or get the job done.
                            >I'm all for that. I was just commenting on what semantically correct HTML
                            >is.
                            >
                            >--
                            >Patty Ayers | Adobe Community Expert
                            >www.WebDevBiz.com
                            >Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                            >Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet

                            • 11. Re: CSS styles show in Safari, not Firefox
                              Level 7

                              "Mister Mustard" <mustard@hotdog.com> wrote in message
                              news:jhfme35g4abgnbiaavslj45hhukiujqiog@4ax.com...
                              > On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 20:34:18 -0400, "P@tty Ayers ~ACE"
                              > <pattyayersTAKETHISOUT@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:
                              >
                              >>Of course it's OK - it's OK to write any kind of code you want. But if you
                              >>want clean, semantically meaningful code, it just makes more sense to mark
                              >>up words that are meant to be emphasized strongly as <strong> or <em>
                              >>rather than as <span>. <span> doesn't mean anything, while <strong> does.

                              > You are presuming someone wants the semantics and I demonstrated that
                              > this is sometimes not the case. I'm pretty sure I am every bit as much
                              > in favor of them as are you, but there are times when you not want to
                              > use them.

                              No, actually, I wrote that of course it's fine to write it any way that
                              works for you. :-)

                              --
                              Patty Ayers | Adobe Community Expert
                              www.WebDevBiz.com
                              Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
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                              --


                              • 12. Re: CSS styles show in Safari, not Firefox
                                Level 7
                                On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:09:27 -0500, Mister Mustard <mustard@hotdog.com>
                                wrote:

                                >You are presuming someone wants the semantics and I demonstrated that
                                >this is sometimes not the case.

                                Actually, you didn't really demonstrate anything. You said that you had
                                a customer who didn't want alt text on images. That's not really the
                                same thing.

                                In any case, the "proper" way to have done that would have been to
                                assign empty strings to the alt attribute (alt="") to prevent screen
                                readers from reading the image file name as some will do in the absence
                                of alt text. Imagine some poor guy listening to his screen reader
                                working it's way through one of those awful Fireworks layouts and
                                listening to spacer.gif 317 times. ;-)

                                The point with semantics is that, when you change the appearance of
                                something, there is almost always a reason for doing so. It's normally
                                because you want to draw attention to it. If that's the case, there's
                                usually a semantic mark-up that would be more appropriate.

                                Note that almost all rules have exceptions. I wouldn't suggest that
                                there is never a reason to use a <span>, but those situations would be
                                pretty rare.
                                • 13. Re: CSS styles show in Safari, not Firefox
                                  Level 7
                                  On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 10:58:03 -0500, Gary White
                                  <reply@newsgroup.please> wrote:

                                  >On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:09:27 -0500, Mister Mustard <mustard@hotdog.com>
                                  >wrote:
                                  >
                                  >>You are presuming someone wants the semantics and I demonstrated that
                                  >>this is sometimes not the case.
                                  >
                                  >Actually, you didn't really demonstrate anything. You said that you had
                                  >a customer who didn't want alt text on images. That's not really the
                                  >same thing.

                                  I believe I demonstrated that sometimes we may wish to show something
                                  visually, but not semantically.
                                  >
                                  >In any case, the "proper" way to have done that would have been to
                                  >assign empty strings to the alt attribute (alt="") to prevent screen
                                  >readers from reading the image file name as some will do in the absence
                                  >of alt text. Imagine some poor guy listening to his screen reader
                                  >working it's way through one of those awful Fireworks layouts and
                                  >listening to spacer.gif 317 times. ;-)

                                  I never use FW layouts and the empty alt is exactly what I used.

                                  >The point with semantics is that, when you change the appearance of
                                  >something, there is almost always a reason for doing so. It's normally
                                  >because you want to draw attention to it. If that's the case, there's
                                  >usually a semantic mark-up that would be more appropriate.

                                  Right, but note that you said, "almost always". I was talking about
                                  the times when this isn't the case.

                                  >Note that almost all rules have exceptions. I wouldn't suggest that
                                  >there is never a reason to use a <span>, but those situations would be
                                  >pretty rare.

                                  • 14. Re: CSS styles show in Safari, not Firefox
                                    Level 7
                                    On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 08:02:17 -0500, Mister Mustard <mustard@hotdog.com>
                                    wrote:

                                    >>Actually, you didn't really demonstrate anything. You said that you had
                                    >>a customer who didn't want alt text on images. That's not really the
                                    >>same thing.
                                    >
                                    >I believe I demonstrated that sometimes we may wish to show something
                                    >visually, but not semantically.

                                    No. You really didn't, but I suppose we'll just have to agree to
                                    disagree.