13 Replies Latest reply: Mar 28, 2010 10:20 PM by Jao vdL RSS

    Noise Reduction output Issue

    Mark Zikra Community Member

      Every time I apply noise reduction in LR3 Beta 2 the adjustments appear in the preview window in LR but as soon as I export as jpeg the processing dissapear.  It only happens with noise reduction - all other processing stays on the image.  Any Help?

        • 1. Re: Noise Reduction output Issue
          MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee

          Hi Mark, how are you doing the "export to JPEG" step? Do you use the Export dialog, a custom Export preset, print to jpeg, etc.?

           

          Eric

          • 2. Re: Noise Reduction output Issue
            Mark Zikra Community Member

            I am using the export Dialogue - I have tried using a custom preset and changing setting.  I use jpeg sRGB, quality set to 100 and am just exporting to the desktop.  No output sharpening or anything-  I have also tried exporting as a psd using adobeRGB, that seemed to make a little difference,but i am still not getting the same quality as i get in the viewing window in Lightroom. 

             

            Maybe it is just me wishing for perfection... I'm not sure.

             

            Thanks

            -Mark

            • 3. Re: Noise Reduction output Issue
              Mark Zikra Community Member

              Here are two images - One showing in lightroom and one after an export as jpeg. 

               

              Screen shot 2010-03-28 at 3.23.48 PM.png

               

              For this image - notice around the arm and to the right of the shoulder there is no noise

               

              This is the exportimage-1-2.jpg

              • 4. Re: Noise Reduction output Issue
                MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee

                Can you please provide the raw file? Please use YouSendIt.com with a target email address of madmanchan2000@yahoo.com

                 

                Eric

                • 5. Re: Noise Reduction output Issue
                  Mark Zikra Community Member

                  Sent - Thank you

                  • 6. Re: Noise Reduction output Issue
                    Jao vdL MVP

                    Mark, just FYI. When you are in Develop, you do not get any preview of the noise reduction (and sharpening) when you are zoomed out as you appear to be here. They are simply not applied at all to make the display faster. This can lead to an image appearing far less (or far more in some cases) noisy than they actually are. You can only get to see noise reduction's effect when you zoom into 1:1 or higher in Develop. To optimize your noise reduction and sharpening, you HAVE to zoom in to 1:1 or higher. You will also see a preview of the noise reduction when you go the Library, but of course you don't get the develop controls there. Library shows the image from a jpeg preview generated using all your Develop settings including noise reduction. So, interestingly, the preview in Library is more accurate than that in Develop in some ways. Check what happens when you zoom in and when you go to Library. My bet is that it looks very similar to your jpeg export.

                     

                    Hope this helps.

                     

                    P.S. LR 3 beta (2) now shows a preview of the sharpening and noise reduction also in zoomed out views.

                    • 7. Re: Noise Reduction output Issue
                      Jao vdL MVP

                      Also, you probably should be using color noise reduction on an image like that even if you go to black and white.

                      • 8. Re: Noise Reduction output Issue
                        Mark Zikra Community Member

                        I do notice a difference between the image quality in the Library vs. Develop and noticed that shortly after i had posted the most recent response. I am just a little confused by your post when you say that the effects are only displayed on a 1:1 or higher scale.  When i apply any form of NR the previewer - even at FIT - still shows adjustments happening. Is it simply rendering what it thinks may be adjusting or can it not comprehend the larger scale so it just smooths out some details?

                         

                        And even at that, if i am able to achieve a desired effect in the previewer of Develop - shouldn't Lightroom be able to export that image that is it showing me?  I am confident that i am able to reproduce the desired look in photoshop - basically through some smoothing - but the ability to create that in LR would save a lot of time. 

                         

                        I digress i am not very confident in my use of Lightroom as i have only been using it for a brief time - switching primarily from aperture i find lightroom a lot easier and more efficent. 

                        • 9. Re: Noise Reduction output Issue
                          Jao vdL MVP

                          No you cannot trust the effects of sharpening and noise reduction at

                          all when zoomed out to fit or fill. You can only trust it at 1:1 or

                          higher in LR 2. You should not see any effect at all zoomed out. If

                          you do see an effect, it is an artefact and Lightroom is lying to you.

                          You should optimize the noise reduction and sharpening at 1:1 and

                          ignore the noise and sharpness you see zoomed out in LR 2. This is a

                          little silly but the root cause is the fact that your display is a low

                          resolution device that simply cannot show you the effects zoomed out.

                          So Lightroom doesn't even bother applying the effect in the zoomed-out

                          view.

                          • 10. Re: Noise Reduction output Issue
                            Mark Zikra Community Member

                            "You can only trust it at 1:1 or higher in LR 2."  - Understandable however I am using LR 3 - Beta 2.  Sorry for the confusion there. 

                             

                            I do understand the need for optimization at 1:1 which I typically do - however when i want to view the image in its entirety to see if i am fully satisfied with it - I get a false preview as displayed above.  That is where my problem is.  Having to jump back to develop seems like an unnecessary step to me. If this is simply an issue with my display then it's settled.  I am running a 13" Macbook unibody Intel Core 2 Duo w/ 4g ddr3 graphics NVIDIA GeForce 9400M

                            • 11. Re: Noise Reduction output Issue
                              Mark Zikra Community Member

                              I apologize if I am coming off argumentative - that's not my intention.  I am just trying to fully understand this situation.

                              • 12. Re: Noise Reduction output Issue
                                Jao vdL MVP

                                I understand the confusion. It is a shortcoming of low resolution

                                displays which necessitates that a lower resolution image needs to be

                                generated to show you a preview. Lightroom 3 tries to give you a

                                preview that is quite accurate by using subpixel rendering, but

                                Lightroom 2 gives you a particularly wrong preview in Develop which is

                                a side effect of how the preview is generated. It uses a much lower

                                resolution interpolated to the display resolution version of the image

                                for speed reasons in the zoomed-out view. Often this shows you far

                                more noise than is actually there because you do not get the averaging

                                of pixels that you should get when you zoom out. Sometimes however, as

                                in your case, it actually shows you less noise than is really there.

                                Both are artefacts of the rendering choices made. Only when you zoom

                                1:1 will you actually get a correct rendering of the image taking all

                                the develop settings into account.

                                • 13. Re: Noise Reduction output Issue
                                  Mark Zikra Community Member

                                  That - is exactly what i was looking for.  It makes sense now - I pretty much understood from your previous posts - but it's clear now.  I appreciate all the help!

                                   

                                  Thanks.