17 Replies Latest reply on Mar 30, 2010 5:46 AM by able123

    mini dv tape capture for cable tv broadcast and DVD

    Level 4

      Hi,

       

      Im using CS3 and about to capture about 4 or more hours of mini dv tape, 720x480I dv NTSC 30fps...from a prosumer camera...unknown brand etc.

       

      Eventually the delivery conduit will be for cable broadcast ( the outdoor channel ) and DVD...

       

      Should I capture uncompressed AVI to squeeze every bit of quality out of this or will that be negligent opposed to capturing dv AVI type 2 ?

       

      Basically it's a hand held camera running around in Africa on Safari....with only sound on camera.. most of the sound is pretty terrible....

       

      Rod

        • 1. Re: mini dv tape capture for cable tv broadcast and DVD
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Capturing is just a digital transfer of data from tape to disk. You can not modify it. Either you capture, or you don't (0 or 1). Capturing can only be MS DV AVI type2. EOS.

          • 2. Re: mini dv tape capture for cable tv broadcast and DVD
            Level 4

            Hi Harm,

             

            Hmmm, I thought I saw a reference to capturing uncompressed...whereas type 2

            is slightly compressed....?

             

            Thanks

            Rod

            • 3. Re: mini dv tape capture for cable tv broadcast and DVD
              Level 4

              Hi again,

               

              I think it was Bill who mentioned this in an earlier thread...

               

              ------

              If all else fails, then AVI Uncompressed would be the next choice, but file sizes WILL increase. The DV-AVI Type II will compress very slightly, but no viewer is likely to ever tell the differences, and the file sizes will be down to ~ 13GB/Hr.

               

              --------------

               

              It may be a moot point , as I just got the production guidelines from the outdoor channel and they say ....

               

              TECHNICAL REQUIREMENTS:

              Programming must be shot and edited on professional equipment, providing  audio and video that meets or

              exceeds the broadcast standards.

              Outdoor Channel encourages all producers to plan to  film and submit programs in High Definition (HD), as this will

              be the only accepted standard beginning in the  3rd Quarter of 2010.

              For all other technical requirements please consult the 2009/2010 Outdoor Channel Production Guidelines,

              available on our website.


              -----------

              hmmmm

              Rod

              • 4. Re: mini dv tape capture for cable tv broadcast and DVD
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                Rod,

                 

                Your camera is sending out a signal over fire wire to the PC. Your PC is receiving that signal and recording that to hard disk. Where is the logic to expand that signal from 8-bits and on-the-fly interpolate it to 10-bits video? Disregarding the fact that just adding 2 bits only containing 0's or 1's does not increase colour fidelity. It only adds random noise.

                 

                Capturing uncompressed is only feasible when using HD-SDI during the shoot, requiring about 200 MB/s sustained transfer rate on your array (1.485 Gbps).

                • 5. Re: mini dv tape capture for cable tv broadcast and DVD
                  Level 4

                  Harm,

                   

                  I think this is starting to make sense to me...

                   

                  Because the camera is recording field 1 and then field 2 and then saving frame 1, and then going through that for each frame, it's only ever going to be 8 bits and dv AVI type 2 is just what it is .....

                   

                  Is that the gist of it ???

                   

                  Rod

                  • 6. Re: mini dv tape capture for cable tv broadcast and DVD
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    Rod, that sums it up nicely.

                     

                    One could confuse the matter by introducing HDMI, DSP location, and other technical things, but you have the gist of it.

                    • 7. Re: mini dv tape capture for cable tv broadcast and DVD
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      Rod,

                       

                      You are possibly referring to a similar question that I posed here, many years ago. In that case, I was doing a A-D capture (note lack of capitalization), through the software of the A-D card. The source material was very old VHS tape, and in that case, I had the option of going Uncompressed, or DV-AVI Type II.

                       

                      Though I got very good comments here from the subscribers, I did the test, and the quality difference between a DVD produced from the Uncompressed and one from DV-AVI Type II could not be seen on a 60" projection TV. I found no differences, that I could see, while editing. Only drawback was the larger file sizes.

                       

                      I'm surprised that you found that thread, as it was before the two forum changeovers (the ill-fated attempt and the more recent, semi-successful one).

                       

                      I'd go with DV-AVI, and then when you go to output to DVD (or whatever), uncheck Recompress.

                       

                      Good luck,

                       

                      Hunt

                       

                      PS - edit quickly, while they still take SD material

                      1 person found this helpful
                      • 8. Re: mini dv tape capture for cable tv broadcast and DVD
                        Level 4

                        Hi,

                         

                        Thanks...got it ( sorta )....head still trying to get around all this stuff...

                         

                        check THIS out....can't say I don't try to find answers....

                         

                        ----------------

                         

                        Capture DV to Uncompressed RGB

                        This example shows how to capture DV from the camcorder and save it  to a file as uncompressed RGB while previewing. Use the filter graph  shown in the following diagram.

                         

                         

                        Capturing Uncompressed RGB  to File

                         

                        The DV Splitter filter splits the interleaved audio/video into  separate video and audio streams The DV-encoded video goes to the DV  Video Decoder filter, which outputs uncompressed RGB video. The RGB  video is routed through the Smart Tee filter to the AVI Mux filter (for  capture) and the video renderer (for preview). Meanwhile, the audio  stream from the DV Splitter goes through the Infinite Pin Tee filter to  the AVI Mux and the audio renderer. The Filter Graph Manager keeps all  of these streams synchronized, using the time stamps on the samples and  the graph reference clock.

                        This graph might seem unnecessarily complicated, but it ensures that  the DV-encoded video stream is decoded only once, which minimizes the  CPU requirements. Also, note that the video goes through the Smart Tee  filter while the audio goes through the Infinite Pin Tee filter. The  Smart Tee can drop preview frames to improve capture performance, which  is desirable for video but not for audio, where dropped samples are  highly noticeable. Also, because the audio requires much lower bandwidth  than the video, there is relatively little chance of dropping audio in  the file.

                        You must build this graph one section at a time, but the RenderStream method can still help. Use the following code:


                        // Build the file-writing section of the graph.
                        hr = pBuilder->SetOutputFileName(&MEDIASUBTYPE_Avi,
                            OLESTR("C:\\Example3.avi"), &pMux, 0);

                        // MSDV to DV splitter.
                        IBaseFilter *pDVSplit;  // Create the DV Splitter (CLSID_DVSplitter)
                        hr = pBuilder->RenderStream(0, &MEDIATYPE_Interleaved, pDV, 0, pDVSplit);

                        // Splitter to DV Decoder to Smart Tee.
                        IBaseFilter *pDVDec; // Create the DV Decoder (CLSID_DVVideoCodec)
                        IBaseFilter *pSmartTee; // Create the Smart Tee (CLSID_SmartTee)
                        hr = pBuilder->RenderStream(0, &MEDIATYPE_Video, pDVSplit, pDVDec,
                            pSmartTee);

                        // Smart Tee (video) to Avi Mux.
                        IPin *pPin1;
                        hr = pBuilder->FindPin(pSmartTee, PINDIR_OUTPUT, 0, 0, TRUE, 0, &pPin1);
                        hr = pBuilder->RenderStream(0, 0, pPin1, 0, pMux);

                        // Smart Tee to preview.
                        IPin *pPin2;
                        hr = pBuilder->FindPin(pSmartTee, PINDIR_OUTPUT, 0, 0, TRUE, 1, &pPin2);
                        hr = pBuilder->RenderStream(0, 0, pPin2, 0, pMux);

                        // DV Splitter (audio) to Infinite Tee to Avi Mux.
                        IBaseFilter *pTee; // Create the Infinite Pin Tee (CLSID_InfTee)
                        hr = pBuilder->RenderStream(0, &MEDIATYPE_Audio, pDVSplit, pTee, pMux);

                        // Infinite Pin Tee to preview.
                        hr = pBuilder->RenderStream(0, 0, pTee, 0, 0);

                        You must create the DV Splitter, DV Video Decoder, Smart Tee,  and Infinite Pin Tee filters, and add each one to the filter graph. (For  brevity, these steps are omitted from the previous code.) This example  uses the ICaptureGraphBuilder2::FindPin method to find the capture and preview pins on the Smart Tee filter;  capture is always output pin 0, and preview is output pin 1.

                        See Also

                        Digital  Video in DirectShow

                         

                         

                        Send comments about  this topic to Microsoft

                        Build date: 3/4/2010

                        -------------------------

                         

                         


                        geez....who woulda thought ??

                         

                        found some stuff about the HD uncompressed avi Harm spoke about...and also, to be perfectly honest....I think, Bill , what you were talking about was the export, not the capture, of the AVI uncompressed option...  I just made notes about it for " the book " in a haphazard way and confused the two.

                         

                        Sorry...

                         

                        Rod

                        • 9. Re: mini dv tape capture for cable tv broadcast and DVD
                          Level 4

                          Bill,

                           

                          LOL...yeah right...HURRRY !!!!!!!!   haha...

                           

                          Rod

                          • 10. Re: mini dv tape capture for cable tv broadcast and DVD
                            Level 4

                            Hi,

                             

                            I don't know if you remember this, but a number of years ago there was this "disco" beat song that the kids played really loud, and at some point everyone raised their hands high in the air and yelled out the refrain, " IT'S ELECTRIC ! ".....

                             

                            That song is now playing in the lounge really loud with some strobes and laser lighting to liven things up and the beer is on me...

                             

                            Hope to see you all...

                             

                            Rod

                             

                             

                            (  it's electric....aka .....it's DIGITAL ).....hehe

                            • 11. Re: mini dv tape capture for cable tv broadcast and DVD
                              Harm Millaard Level 7

                              Not a direct answer to your question, but maybe something to ponder about:

                               

                              HDMI.jpg

                              1 person found this helpful
                              • 13. Re: mini dv tape capture for cable tv broadcast and DVD
                                Level 4

                                saved for "the book"

                                 

                                Rod

                                 

                                 

                                HDMI.jpg

                                • 14. Re: mini dv tape capture for cable tv broadcast and DVD
                                  Level 4

                                  Hi,

                                   

                                  Further investigation reveals...this link

                                   

                                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_digital_interface

                                   

                                  and this factoid....

                                  ------------

                                   

                                  SDI and HD-SDI are currently only available in professional video  equipment; various licensing agreements, restricting the use of  unencrypted digital interfaces to professional equipment, prohibit their  use in consumer equipment[

                                   

                                   

                                  ---------------

                                   

                                  hmmm

                                   

                                  not that your average home computer equipment could deal with this stuff...but what's with that ?

                                   

                                  anyway, when looking at what's available on internet and comparing to Harm's diagram I am getting a better idea of the ...what would you call it.....the throughput ?....can't call it a " workflow "....   but pretty soon I'm gonna have to get an ocilloscope and wave generator...

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  Rod

                                  • 15. Re: mini dv tape capture for cable tv broadcast and DVD
                                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                                    Rod,

                                     

                                    A kind request: If you use my name as a source, please spell it correctly: MILLAARD with double A.

                                     

                                    I remember that Bill had some difficulty as well with this wierd spelling, but that's how it is.

                                    • 16. Re: mini dv tape capture for cable tv broadcast and DVD
                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                      Harm,

                                       

                                      I think that it might be a US-thing, with the double vowels right after the double consonants. I still have to rather concentrate a bit.

                                       

                                      One thing that I did do was add "Millaard" to the spelling dictionaries everywhere that I could on my laptop. I'm trying...

                                       

                                      Hunt

                                      • 17. Re: mini dv tape capture for cable tv broadcast and DVD
                                        Level 4

                                        Ugh,,,,  sorry Harm, Bill is right, I'm not used to the double vowel, but won't do that again...

                                         

                                        I can't "edit" the graphic now in the forum, but changed it in my own saved copy...for the book...

                                         

                                        Rod