20 Replies Latest reply on Feb 9, 2012 9:12 AM by bibledean

    Jitter problem after burning DVD from avi or mpeg2 that was exported from original timeline edit

    vidguytx Level 1

      When burning a DVD directly from the timeline in Elements 7, there is usually no problem, however, when first exporting it to an .avi or .mpeg2 file, and then putting that new file back into the timeline, and then burning that new file to a DVD, there is jitter or "strobing" when the subject in the video moves (when playing the DVD).

       

      It's not an install, or re-install issue, because before I started with this new computer, the exact same thing happened with the last computer I was using.

       

      Thanks.

        • 1. Re: Jitter problem after burning DVD from avi or mpeg2 that was exported from original timeline edit
          vidguytx Level 1

          Forgot to mention...... this is in PE 7.   Thanks!

          • 2. Re: Jitter problem after burning DVD from avi or mpeg2 that was exported from original timeline edit
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            If you are Exporting/Sharing to DV-AVI Type II w/ 48KHz 16-bit PCM/WAV Audio and Recompress is NOT checked, you should not be able to see any difference, when you Import that DV-AVI into a new Project. Note: Recompress is usually checked by default - uncheck it. Do NOT Export/Share as MPEG-2, as burning to DVD will add another MPEG-2 Transcode to the mix and you WILL see a major difference.

             

            Good luck, and hope that helps,

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: Jitter problem after burning DVD from avi or mpeg2 that was exported from original timeline edit
              vidguytx Level 1

              Thanks very much Bill!

               

              I'll look for where the option for that setting might be found, and try that.

               

              Honestly, more often than not, I have preferred

              to export it as an mpeg2, so that it will remain

              in the DVD format "range", without consuming as

              much real estate as the .avi, since I often need

              to retain the exported files for a long time (and

              ultimately, there are quite a few of such!).   I

              recall, that, when I used to use Pinnacle Studio,

              the mpeg2 export re-burned flawlessly, so I was

              thinking that Adobe, (being superior!) would

              probably also have some method of accomplishing

              the same.  If there is a way, that would, as well, be great to know!

               

              Thanks again,

              Les    

              • 4. Re: Jitter problem after burning DVD from avi or mpeg2 that was exported from original timeline edit
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                Les,

                 

                If you Export/Share to MPEG-2 (fully DVD-compliant settings - VERY important), and then Import that resultant file into an authoring program, like DVD Architect, or Adobe Encore, those programs will not Transcode, so you are good to go. Now, depending on the size and number of these files being used on the DVD, and whether you are doing a DVD-5, or a DVD-9, you might need to do bit-budgeting with a bit-rate calculator, to establish the bit-rate high enough, but not too high, to fit the material onto the DVD.

                 

                If you are Importing that MPEG-2 file into an NLE (there are some exceptions here - Google of "smart encoding"), and are then authoring to DVD, as one would with PrE, the program will Transcode to MPEG-2 all over again, adding another level of compression, to the detriment of the footage.

                 

                If I have to create an intermediate file, I will often use the Lagarith Lossless CODEC for the transfer file.

                 

                Hope that this helps and good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: Jitter problem after burning DVD from avi or mpeg2 that was exported from original timeline edit
                  vidguytx Level 1

                  Sure, and thanks again Bill.  Yes, it's clearly a

                  transcoding issue, apparently also effectuating a

                  frame rate mismatch of sorts.  I'll try your

                  suggestion, and appreciate that (although, at

                  first glance, I didn't see where the options

                  were, that included those settings for

                  recompress, etc., in preferences or

                  elsewhere)!  Do you happen to know quickly,

                  without having to take a lot of your time, where they are located in PE7?

                   

                  Regards,

                  Les

                  []

                  []

                  • 6. Re: Jitter problem after burning DVD from avi or mpeg2 that was exported from original timeline edit
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    When one chooses to Share AVI and then choose the DV-AVI the Recompress should be on that dialog screen. Now, I have PrE 4, so DV-AVI was a bit of a different animal, and usually accessed via File>Export, and now its all in Share.

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 8. Re: Jitter problem after burning DVD from avi or mpeg2 that was exported from original timeline edit
                      vidguytx Level 1

                      Thanks Bill, and sorry again to bother you.   I

                      found it in 7, however, it is under

                      File/Export/Settings, which is not directly

                      connected to the method of creating the AVI or

                      MPEG2 in that version.  The question is, do we

                      know for a fact when unchecking recompress in

                      that menu (since we don't use that for file

                      creation in PRE7, but rather the "sharing"

                      command instead),  that this setting will

                      positively cause the  AVI produced through the

                      "Sharing" menu to respond to the

                      "no-recompression" setting designated in a

                      totally different area of the program?

                       

                      Thanks again,

                      Les

                      • 9. Re: Jitter problem after burning DVD from avi or mpeg2 that was exported from original timeline edit
                        vidguytx Level 1

                        Additionally, once set under

                        File/Export/Video/Settings, will PRE7 remember

                        the no-recompression setting permanently for

                        every render from that point on forward, or is

                        there a circumstance in which we would need to go

                        through all those steps (between the 2 totally separate command areas) again?

                         

                        Thanks!

                        • 10. Re: Jitter problem after burning DVD from avi or mpeg2 that was exported from original timeline edit
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          Les,

                           

                          I wish that I could tell you. I do not have PrE 7, or PrE 8, so I cannot even check. Maybe another subscriber can shed some light on this.

                           

                          Good luck,

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 11. Re: Jitter problem after burning DVD from avi or mpeg2 that was exported from original timeline edit
                            vidguytx Level 1

                            No problem at all!   You've been super, and I

                            appreciate all your great suggestions!!!!!!

                             

                            Regards again,

                            Les

                            • 12. Re: Jitter problem after burning DVD from avi or mpeg2 that was exported from original timeline edit
                              Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                              I wouldn't worry too much about recompression, The only time you'll see a major effect is if you put an AVI into a project, export it as an AVI, then put that AVI into a project and export an AVI from that, etc. It just saves some breakdown that occurs after several generations of uncompressing and recompressing.

                               

                              So, no, I wouldn't expect that turning off recompression in one area of the program to affect how the program Shares your AVI. (Your MPEG will ALWAYS be recompressed, since there is no smart rendering to MPEG in Premiere Elements.) But it also won't make much difference in the quality of your output -- and it likely has nothing to do with your jittery playback.

                              • 13. Re: Jitter problem after burning DVD from avi or mpeg2 that was exported from original timeline edit
                                vidguytx Level 1

                                Thanks very much Steve.   In that case, what

                                would you think is causing the "strobing" effect

                                (jerky frames lacking smooth motion) in

                                conjunction with the movement of the subject in

                                the video (which doesn't exist at all when

                                burning the DVD directly from the original

                                timeline), and how do we prevent that from

                                occurring, since it only happens when done as

                                you've described below (that is, generating an

                                AVI (or MPEG2) from the timeline edit and then

                                placing that AVI file back into the timeline)

                                when burning that second file to DVD in the "Sharing" function?

                                 

                                Thanks,

                                Les

                                • 14. Re: Jitter problem after burning DVD from avi or mpeg2 that was exported from original timeline edit
                                  Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                                  Jitteriness is most often caused by interlacing conflicts. I don't know if this is the case in your project or not.

                                   

                                  MPEGs build their interlaced frames differently than DV-AVIs. You can manually tweak them with Premiere Elements, but the easiest solution is to use the DV project settings for DV-AVIs and the DVD/Hard Drive Camcorder project settings for MPEGs (since these settings include a feature for automatically reversing the field dominance). I don't recommend trying to mix AVIs and MPEGs in the same project.

                                   

                                  I'm also not quite sure if your AVIs are coming from a miniDV camcorder connected by Firewire, about the only way to get true DV-AVIs without using a video converter.

                                   

                                  I'm not sure how well you and Hunt covered the importance of using only video from miniDV,  HDV and AVCHD camcorders in Premeire Elements and, more so, ensuring that your project settings match your source files. But doing this will resolve about 98% of the situations in which people experience jittery video.

                                  • 15. Re: Jitter problem after burning DVD from avi or mpeg2 that was exported from original timeline edit
                                    vidguytx Level 1

                                    Once again Steve, I truly do appreciate your

                                    comments and help, (as well as Hunt's, of course)!

                                     

                                    Your question regarding the source, is also a

                                    good one.  Due to the nature of our business,

                                    most all of everything we put on the timeline has

                                    to be ripped from an already existing DVD (almost

                                    always produced on a stand-alone table-top DVD

                                    recorder) .  Still, the concern of my original

                                    question comes after using Pinnacle Studio for

                                    years, prior to switching to Pre7, which (Pre7)

                                    should, in every way, be superior.  With

                                    Pinnacle, however, doing all of the identically

                                    same functions with all the exact same sources

                                    and procedures, we never experienced the

                                    "strobing" in the final DVD's, particularly

                                    considering that in Pinnacle, we always only

                                    generated MPEG2's from the edited timeline, and

                                    never needed to use AVI, and when putting that

                                    MPEG2 back into the timeline for further editing

                                    revisions, followed by a new DVD burn, the result

                                    was still always perfectly smooth and stable.

                                     

                                    Also, admittedly (or even somewhat

                                    embarrasingly!) I haven't been able to track down

                                    the step by step method in Pre7 of being sure

                                    that all the project settings match the

                                    determined settings of the source files (or even

                                    how to do that), especially since most all the

                                    sources must come primarily from the ripped

                                    DVD's.   We've ripped the DVD's in Pre7, TMPEG,

                                    and even using Pinnacle, all with the same

                                    effect.  Actually (as a side issue), unless I'm

                                    totally missing something, it's a little easier

                                    to do the rips from outside of Pre7, because when

                                    when Pre7 rips, it breaks the source into

                                    multiple VOB files, which causes a word or two to

                                    be dropped with a frame or so either side of

                                    where it divides the original file.  It would be

                                    much more conducive if Pre7 would offer a method

                                    of ripping our 2-hour DVD's into one single VOB.

                                     

                                    That's what's puzzling here!  Not sure why the

                                    different codecs or algorithms or whatever else

                                    is done in background encoding/re-encoding

                                    process would create a problem with one program

                                    and not the other, with all the ancillary factors

                                    being the same.  Interesting!

                                     

                                    Have a nice holiday weekend!

                                    Les

                                    • 16. Re: Jitter problem after burning DVD from avi or mpeg2 that was exported from original timeline edit
                                      Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                                      I'm not sure why there is this belief that Premiere Elements should be able to do everything any comparably priced video editor can do and do it better just because it's an Adobe product -- but it's probably not a good assumption to make.

                                       

                                      Most under-$100 video editors have their limitations. I wish I could  say that Premiere Elements could do everything Premiere Pro can do with  just a few functions removed, but that's just not the case.

                                       

                                      Premiere Elements is relatively low-end product. It's a very good product with lots of great features -- but it works with a very narrow range of files well.

                                       

                                      That's why I always say that, when it comes to software, don't ever expect a one-size-fits-all application. We each are working with different video sources and working toward different goals. What works great for me (and 95% of the time, Premiere Elements does), may be entirely wrong for you.

                                       

                                      That's just a long way of saying, Les, that if you're working from DVD video to DVD video, Premiere Elements may be able to do it -- but, if it doesn't, you should feel free to use what does.

                                       

                                      For video from a DVD, you should be using the DVD/Hard Drive project preset. This should give you an excellent output with no jittering.

                                       

                                      If it's not, I'm not sure why. And it may be that this type of video just doesn't fit the product's limited workflow.

                                       

                                      Hope that helps.

                                      • 17. Re: Jitter problem after burning DVD from avi or mpeg2 that was exported from original timeline edit
                                        vidguytx Level 1

                                        Yes, it ABSOLUTELY DOES help, and as with your

                                        other responses, I appreciate that!!   Now, I'll

                                        say this. Your qualifications of any program's

                                        abilities (and/or limitiations), as expressed

                                        below, are totally fair and

                                        understandable!    Knowing that, actually helps

                                        as well, so that we can combine, modify, etc., to

                                        come up with the best overall results!   Guess I

                                        may have been slightly remiss in my expectations as you've outlined!

                                         

                                        I'll check again to find the DVD/HDD project

                                        preset settings, and maybe that will, in fact,

                                        make the difference, if it isn't already set that-a-way!

                                         

                                        Thanks again, buddy, for sharing your (and Bill's) excellent knowledge base!

                                        Les      

                                        • 18. Re: Jitter problem after burning DVD from avi or mpeg2 that was exported from original timeline edit
                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                          Les,

                                           

                                          I do not know the newer Pinnacle Studio products, but going back to 8 and 9, through 9.4.3, the workflow was based on DV-AVI, just like PrE is. Pinnacle might have changed over to MPEG-2 in later versions, but I just do not know, as I have not seen a version, since Studio 10 hit was such a disaster.

                                           

                                          One of the problems when working from DVD-Video material is that it has already been compressed to MPEG-2, loosing a good bit of data, and also converting the material to GOP (Group of Pictures), so that individual Frames are not present any longer. This precludes Frame-accurate editing, unless that compressed material is converted to all I-frame. See this ARTICLE for some background on GOP. Then, upon Burn to Disk, that I-frame material is once more compressed (again) to MPEG-2 and GOP for use in a VOB container. This WILL cause degradation of the image, most noticeable where there is motion, either subject, or camera motion. Some NLE's offer what is referred to as "Smart Rendering." This can help in some areas. For portions of the footage, where no changes have been made, beyond just cuts, the material will NOT be Transcoded again to MPEG-2, but will be used, as-is. Note: add a Transition, or a Title, or a PiP, or any Effect, and that footage WILL be Transcoded, so the Smart Rendering aspect will be moot. Sony's Vegas has been recommended for Smart Rendering, but I have never used it. This might be worth investigating. Also, if Pinnacle Studio is working fine, you might want to consider using that program. I have 5 different NLE's on my workstation, and use each for specialized situations, though the vast majority of my editing is done in PrPro.

                                           

                                          Regarding the existing DVD-Videos, much depends of the source. PrE can Import and work with 100% DVD-compliant (very important) VOB's. Unfortunately, most DVR's do not create 100% DVD-compliant discs. This is most often manifested in the first VOB, which will contain any Menus and navigation. This ARTICLE will give you some background on VOB's, which are Video Object "containers."

                                           

                                          As you point out, there can be issues with the resulting MPEG-2, as it will span part of VOB 1, and then all remaining VOB's. With 100% DVD-compliant VOB's, there will be a perfect flow in the MPEG-2 that spans the multiple VOB's. When the VOB's are not 100% DVD-compliant, issues can arise.

                                           

                                          Considering your DVR, it is likely that ripping is going to be the best workflow, as that will strip out the other material in the first VOB and should then gather the data for the spanned MPEG-2. The ultimate rip will be to a DV-AVI Type II file w/ 48KHz 16-bit PCM/WAV Audio. This is an older FAQ Entry from the Encore Forum, on ripping, but might have some useful tips. Note: this was for getting material from a DVD-Video for authoring to a new DVD in Encore, and not editing.

                                           

                                          For non-commercial DVD-Video editing, I will use an A-D bridge and my DVD deck, and capture to DV-AVI Type II w/ 48KHz 16-bit PCM/WAV Audio, and Import the resulting files into PrPro/PrE. This is exactly the same workflow that I use, with analog material, like VHS.

                                           

                                          Also note that PrPro, a US$900 program did not get VOB Importing until CS4.2 (current version), while PrE has had it for some time now. Also, PrPro is a DV-AVI-based, I-frame, program, just like PrE, so no "Smart Rendering" there either. Same exact issues exist in "big-brother," PrPro.

                                           

                                          Most of all, good luck,

                                           

                                          Hunt

                                          • 19. Re: Jitter problem after burning DVD from avi or mpeg2 that was exported from original timeline edit
                                            vidguytx Level 1

                                            Excellent info again!   Thanks a ton, and have a great Easter!

                                             

                                            Les     

                                            • 20. Re: Jitter problem after burning DVD from avi or mpeg2 that was exported from original timeline edit
                                              bibledean Level 1

                                              I have found that for my DVDs, when I have vertical motion it had the same problem you described with the jitter.  I was testing the DVD on a CRT TV with a DVD player and found that the DVD player used Progressive Scan which is very common now.  So I converted my video from interlaced to progressive using AME to DVD-Video, imported that video as a timeline in Encore so that it didn't transcode the asset and it helped a whole bunch with the jitter problem.  Hope that helps.