14 Replies Latest reply on Apr 2, 2010 10:49 AM by able123

    cs3 - this is scary part 2

    Level 4

      Good morning !


      I had started this thread in the lounge not realizing it would turn into a tech thing ...and would like to continue here.

      First off, thanks Bill, Stan for you earlier help...


      I got up early and got back into this as it was worrying me ( scary ) all night on and off...and luckily came up with some more info.


      1) project is still custom 720x480i 29.97, 16:9 - because preset for that didn't work.


      Using the preset and importing a few clips (on timeline) from scLive capture from tape, played video a second, froze, but sound kept playing.

      AT that point I still had the clamshell plugged into firewire and had not rebooted computer since capture...


      Anyway, I made the custom project and it worked.   Later on, however, the playback (program monitor) was so jerky (unusual for this machine), I unplugged firewire, rebooted and things got much better.  So I just made another preset project just now and it works !


      It seems the custom project is duplicating some scenes ( my scenes separated at timecode breaks ) when I put them onto the timeline.

      That is what gspot is seeing as unneeded bytes at end of file...


      gspot-avi export.jpg


      I haven't tried an export from the preset (new) project yet...as I just made it this minute...but I put some clips on the timeline and it seems to be working OK...will do an export now...


      When I made sequences for each tape last night and imported folders ( tape 1 , tape 2 )...and dragged to sequence timelines, there were many duplicates on the tape 2 sequence...like almost every scene had a duplicate.  That's pretty weird...  I did a search and found nothing about that yet.


      K, off to make coffee and do avi export in new preset project...


      Thanks for reading this book...




      ps...without sequences for each tape ( 5 in all ) I have no idea how I'm going to be able to handle editing all these thousands of scenes....

      4 hours about...

        • 1. Re: cs3 - this is scary part 2
          Level 4



          This is the new test avi ( export / movie ) - from new project using the preset dv ntsc 16:9..  which renders real fast ( with new hard drive and pagefile etc, thanks Bill, Harm, everyone...for info on that stuff )...is very fast.


          new avi-preset.jpg


          appears I have duplicates again...If I can solve this duplicate prob on the one sequence...then I can probably make sequences for each tape later...and that would help a lot re: handling the huge amounts of files for the rough cut.


          Will now go through the timeline looking for duplicates and compare to what I have in my directory ( folder )...  a quick look didnt reveal duplicates in the folders earlier...but its datestamp and kinda hard to go through fast...will now go through each one...see what's up with this.  If you've heard of this before ( from scLive capture ) please let me know...Thanks !



          • 2. Re: cs3 - this is scary part 2
            Harm Millaard Level 7



            When using a project with multiple tapes DV material, my workflow is capture each tape with ScLive to its own directory, for instance tape_1, tape_2, etc. with scene detection on. Quickly glance through the captured clips in ScLive, delete clearly unwanted clips and repeat that for all tapes.


            Next in PR import the directories, that were created in ScLive, so I have a bin tape_1, tape_2, etc each containing all the captured clips. I always use a DV preset and never had any problem with that. Never needed to create a custom/desktop sequence.


            Did you maybe skip scene detection and capture the whole tape as one long clip? I have no explanation why G-Spot would indicate these sizable empty parts. That makes it weird.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: cs3 - this is scary part 2
              Level 4

              Hi Harm ,  Thanks !

              I did what you suggested...captured tapes to their own folders. Imported

              folders to CS3 (are now bins )...2 or 5 so far...haven't captured the rest


              Have scLive set to capture with scene detection on and get many avi files.

              My new project is the preset dv --  I think the first attempt failed due to

              memory probs after the capture ( I had also started an file index as a test

              of scLive but stopped it short of doing the whole tape ---and that probably

              also contributed to mem use ).


              So the new project is the preset and is working well.


              I've watched the tape 1 avi export ( halfway through now ) and haven't seen

              any duplicate scenes or anything weird...sound is in sync and it looks

              really good !


              The rendering of the avi , by the way, is REALLY fast...thanks for all your

              help with suggesting the drive and pagefile ( indexing off ) and so on.  It

              has made a big difference.


              After I finish watching the tape1 export I'll have to go through the

              timeline scene by scene to see what is going on there ( re duplicates )....



              • 4. Re: cs3 - this is scary part 2
                Level 4



                Update:  I finished watching the first tape avi export.  Looked great, nothing weird on it, no duplicated scenes.


                Then I opened CS3 to start looking through the timeline for duplicates...and CS3 started to generate a peak file.  That worked pretty fast..and it gave me a new "sequence 01 -new preset avi ".  It's icon is for a sound file.  However, when I put on timeline to see what it was ( with avi extension ), it is both video and sound, and it is one long clip (same length as my avi scenes on timeline ).


                Did a search on what the peak file is , and I understand it just makes it faster for CS3 to play the wav file...


                Will I generate a new peak file every time I edit (change ) the timeline ?




                off to start looking at every clip on timeline to find duplicates if any...



                • 5. Re: cs3 - this is scary part 2
                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                  When you import DV footage into your project PEK files are created, that allow for display of the waveforms on the time line. You must have the patience for that process to finish before starting to edit. Progress is shown in the lower right corner of your screen as blue bars.

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: cs3 - this is scary part 2
                    Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    Rod, I think the "new" sequence you think was created by the pek file generation is not related to that at all.  When you exported the movie, you probably had the box marked to add it to the project.


                    If you in fact have duplicates, they are probably related to adding clips from scenalyzer to the same directory from either two tapes, or from the same tape on different runs.


                    Even if you have duplicates, that would not account for the gspot information.

                    • 7. Re: cs3 - this is scary part 2
                      Level 4

                      Hi Harm, Stan, Thanks !


                      I found this statement by the author of Gspot on the internet...took a while to find it...





                      Just an FYI re the GSpot report it seems to be a bug so I wouldn't worry about it, here's a post from the author on a Doom9 forum.


                      I think in this case the "19.7GB unneeded bytes at end of file” is a GSpot bug; I may have fixed it already, but have been so busy I haven't yet had a chance to confirm that, nor consolidate various other fixes & updates and post an updated version.


                      There's are, or at least were, a lot of 32-bit variables used to store file lengths, and they overflow at 4GB. It's not something that comes up a lot (except for DV), so I hadn't really noticed the problem during a lot of early testing, though I have gotten occasional reports about it.


                      I shouldn't say "I think" - it's definitely wrong. If GSpot's warning message in the screenshot was correct, the usable part of the file is only 25.7GB - 19.7GB = 6GB, which is much too small for a 2hr 2min DV file. That's why it also came up with much too low a bitrate for DV, in about the same proportion.


                      Without sound, not to mention the redundant sound in a type 2 DV, that file size should be at least (25Mbps x 122 minutes x 60 secs/min) / (8 bits/byte) which is 22GB right there. Add in the two copies of the soundtrack & misc overhead and 25.7GB is probably just about correct.


                      I'll be changing all file length related variable in GSpot to 64-bit shortly (that's just a programming change - not something that requires a 64-bit O/S, btw). That'll up the limit to 7,179,869,184 gigabytes which is 1,677,216 terabytes which is 16,384 petabytes which is 16 exabytes. That's 8000 times larger than Google's entire storage capacity which. of course, they use to cache the entire Internet, amongst other things.


                      So that should get rid of that error for a while, anyway




                      This was posted in 2007 and I don't know what version he's talking about, but since everything appears to be OK so far I'm sorta thinking it's a bug.


                      Stan, I think you must be right...I went through the whole timeline of tape 1 and found no duplicates...

                      I'll now create a new sequence and import the 2nd tape to that...see what happens...  if all goes well I will continue to capture and make a sequence for each tape...  so I can rough cut each tape first, then put a much smaller bunch of clips onto a single timeline...


                      Hopefully my totally packed full of stuff Dell Inspiron ( the mouse that roared ) can handle it all....



                      • 8. Re: cs3 - this is scary part 2
                        the_wine_snob Level 9



                        As Harm mentioned, Audio is Conformed. This is a bit of a blanket operation, as two files are generated. The first is the CFA file, which is converting your 16-bit Audio to 32-bit floating point, to allow for accurate editing. The other file is that PEK, which, as has been mentioned, is the Waveform Display file, and allows one to "see" the Waveform. This Conforming is very important, and on a good machine, with logical Durations, only takes the time to get a cup of coffee. If these get Deleted, Move, Renamed, etc., PrPro will go though this process again to regenerate these necessary files. Note: once the Project is complete, they CAN be safely Deleted, and are not needed, when one uses Project Manager to archive the Project - remember if you revisit that Project, they will be regenerated then.


                        Sounds like you are on the road to success. As Stanley points out, there is a little checkbox, Add to Project. For most operations, that is not what most of us want - USUALLY. I use it for Frame still captures/Export, if I will be using that Frame still for a Freeze Frame, or similar, or when I need to Export a segment, that will then be used in perhaps another Sequence. Otherwise, I leave it OFF, to keep my Project Panel clean.


                        I'll also pretty anal about my Bins. I usually start a Project with these Bins first: Timelines, Video, Stills, Audio, Music, Titles, Captures. With multiple Sequences, where there will be overlap, I will usually do a Bin hierarchy, where in the Timelines, I will have most of those individual Bins, with just those Assets for THAT Sequence. Where I have universal Assets, I will then have a Project hierarchy with the appropriate Bins for those "global" Assets, often Music, etc.


                        Good luck,



                        • 9. Re: cs3 - this is scary part 2



                          Are you using Dragon Naturally Speaking by any chance?



                          • 10. Re: cs3 - this is scary part 2
                            Level 4

                            Thanks Harm,

                            My confusion was because I had exported an avi file as " part of

                            project"...and THAT'S the peak file that threw me...Stan mentioned it might

                            be the case..and it was.


                            Thank you !...  I just finished capturing all the tapes ( 5 ) and creating

                            sequences for each one, bins, and everything is working great so far...


                            : P


                            Now I have to start the rough cut...and I'm wondering how you do your work

                            for that...

                            I'm thinking of going through each scene in the source monitor and just

                            saving those parts I want (drag to timeline), instead of creating subclips.

                            But I'm wondering what will use more of my computer memory and

                            resources....probably subclips would use LESS, right ???  In which case, I

                            would do that even though I have less wriggle room.



                            • 11. Re: cs3 - this is scary part 2
                              Level 4

                              aha !  Good advice, thanks Bill...

                              • 12. Re: cs3 - this is scary part 2
                                Level 4

                                Hi Angus,


                                No...I saw something called dragon on internet recently..that's the

                                animation, stop motion thing ???

                                Ohhhh...just looked,...speech recognition? no...is my typing all messed up

                                ???  I type fast though, touch type.



                                • 13. Re: cs3 - this is scary part 2
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9



                                  I use the text fields in the Project Panel (I move them about, to get the Columns, that I want, where I want them) and add details for later.


                                  I then use the Source Monitor to set the In & Out Points for each instance from that "master" Clip and drag those to the Timeline. One can any number (might be an upper limit, but I have never hit it) of instances on the Timeline, and each can have different In & Out Points.


                                  I set those In & Out Points a bit loosely, but keeping Handles in mind.


                                  Once the rough cut is done, I fine-tune those instances and tighten things up dramatically. Again, Handles are on my mind, depending on the cut/Transitions that I plan on using.


                                  Hope that helps establish a workflow.




                                  PS - in earlier versions of PrPro, true Sub-clips could really, really slow things down to a crawl. Not sure how much improvement was made with CS3, and true Sub-clips. I think that CS4 has greatly improved things in that regard. Maybe others can give you a chronology of true Sub-clips and how CS3 handled them.

                                  • 14. Re: cs3 - this is scary part 2
                                    Level 4

                                    Hi Bill,


                                    Yeah, I'm thinking if I was a computer program, and I made subclips, that

                                    would sorta create some kinda video file independent of the main

                                    clip...rather than just "marking" points on a clip....don't know how it

                                    really works though...makes sense though ...that I'm better off just

                                    dragging stuff down from source monitor maybe...


                                    I think I read that you can have up to 5000 clips on a timeline....


                                    You know...you and everyone here has helped me learn and prepare for this

                                    ( 5 hours of  dv ntsc in this project to start , captured successfully, etc

                                    etc....) for months now, and I have to really thank you all...maybe later I

                                    can run over to the lounge with this pie I got.


                                    Josh's girlfriend made an apple, strawberry , rhubarb pie for me ( with

                                    individual little "leaves" -- like dogwood tree leaves? ) for the top pastry

                                    crust. )...very decorative !  Will share with you all later in the lounge !


                                    : )