14 Replies Latest reply on Apr 6, 2010 11:38 AM by the_wine_snob

    Best format for rendering..

    Positive Future Level 1
      I've sorted out my EQ problems and am now near the end of the first stage of my project. I'll soon have some previews up... I appreciate the help I've been given here. I was a complete and utter novice last November.
      1) If file size is not an issue, what is the best format to render in if I want my film to look and sound as good as possible? I want no quality degredation if possible.
      2) Is there any point using Lagarith lossless or is AVI OK?
      3) Are there any formats that add a bit of natural EQ to the sound? Some wav to mp3 programs seem to improve the sound a bit.
      4) I'm using Elements 3.0- is there anything else I can do to make my film render as sharply as possible? I want to spare no effort, so any tips appreciated.
      Sorry if these are basic questions but Hunt always seems to come up with things that aren't in the FAQs and guides...
      Thanks
        • 1. Re: Best format for rendering..
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          There's no value in saving to an uncompressed format, since your original footage was compressed to some degree. But, particularly if your original footage was from a miniDV or HDV camcorder, Premiere Elements should render your output at virtually identical quality.

           

          That said, what you output it as depends on what you plan to do with it and where you plan to play your video.

           

          For re-use in another project, DV-AVI is the ideal format.

           

          For re-use in a hi-def project, the 1440x1080 MPEG is your best choice.

           

          And, for playing on a DVD player -- well, a DVD, of course!

          • 2. Re: Best format for rendering..
            Positive Future Level 1

            Hi Steve, thanks for a prompt reply... Basically I just want to export the movie so people can start watching it. There won't be any reuse in other projects... I'm going to upload the files to a file sharing network so a few people can download them and then give feedback.

             

            I have some lush shots from a Panasonic DVX AG100b so I don't want to lose any quality if I can help it...

             

            I think I'll go with DV-AVI, as it looks like it can be played in most players...

            • 3. Re: Best format for rendering..
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              DV-AVI will be about as good as it gets. The users will not need to download and install any additional CODEC's, like Lagarith. I think that most recent Mac's can now handle DV-AVI, but you might want to check with your audience there.

               

              As for the EQ, that will need to be done in either your NLE, or an audio-editing app. I'd just get to sound the best on your headphones, and that should be perfect for playback.

               

              Now, remember that these files will be large, about 13GB/hour of Duration. Will that be an issue with your audience downloading them?

               

              For streaming and for quicker downloads, with decent quality, DivX is not a bad CODEC. Yes, it does heavily compress the material, but does a good job of this. Note: it is not meant to ever be edited later on. Still, it will NOT be as good as the DV-AVI, so if you consider it, then test carefully.

               

              Good luck,

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: Best format for rendering..
                Positive Future Level 1

                This is a preview only going out to a few people. They should be able to manage the large file sizes, because the project will be broken into 5-10 minute chunks. Having said that, 1.3GB for a 6 minute file is a bit intimidating, so I'll bear your comments in mind.

                 

                When I opened this discussion I wanted to find the absolute best render format and a decent second choice, so DivX might well be the way to go. I'll see what happens... I assume you consider Mpeg a step down from DivX ?

                 

                If I render to DV-AVI, is it easy for a friend with professional audio equipment to tweak the EQ track and then re-render it?

                 

                After rendering to DV-AVI is it possible to use an external compressor such as WinRar to decrease the file size or is this impossible?

                 

                Thanks again, and maybe you can see this project within a month...hehe

                • 5. Re: Best format for rendering..
                  Positive Future Level 1

                  I found an overview of Codecs which should help other newbs with the similar questions.

                   

                  http://videocodecs.wordpress.com/

                  • 6. Re: Best format for rendering..
                    nealeh Level 5

                    Positive Future wrote:

                     

                    After rendering to DV-AVI is it possible to use an external compressor such as WinRar to decrease the file size or is this impossible?

                    On a DV-AVI 2 file a quick test shows that 7-Zip (on default compression) shrinks to about 1/3 of the file size. If you went for maximum compression you should be able to improve on that.

                     

                    Note that it will take some time to do the compression. My file was 6GB and it reckoned 50 minutes to complete compression.

                     

                    Cheers,
                    --
                    Neale
                    Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                    • 7. Re: Best format for rendering..
                      Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                      As a delivery format, Divx may be just fine -- if space is an issue. (That's why it's often used on web sites.)

                       

                      Your only problem may be that you're using a professional camcorder (around $2,000 worth, as I see it). And this is a consumer program.

                       

                      Your camcorder shoots in 24p -- which Premiere Elements can't handle well. So if you're shooting in 24p, you could see a drop in quality when you run it through Premiere Elements.

                       

                      On the other hand, if you're shooting straight miniDV (~30 fps in NTSC or 25 fps in PAL) you should get excellent results no matter what you output!

                       

                      Otherwise, it might be worth spending a few hundred dollars more for Premiere Pro CS4. It will take just about any format you throw at it!

                      • 8. Re: Best format for rendering..
                        Positive Future Level 1

                        On a DV-AVI 2 file a quick test shows that 7-Zip (on default compression) shrinks to about 1/3 of the file size. If you went for maximum compression you should be able to improve on that.

                         

                        Note that it will take some time to do the compression. My file was 6GB and it reckoned 50 minutes to complete compression.

                         

                        Thanks a lot for testing that out Nealeh, time is not an issue... That makes sending AVI's just about worth it.

                         

                        *

                         

                        Steve, I'm fairly clear on this now, thanks. I'll get a copy of CS4 when I have more mone. At the moment my aim is just getting a decent looking work-in-progress out.

                         

                        Your camcorder shoots in 24p -- which Premiere Elements can't handle well. So if you're shooting in 24p, you could see a drop in quality when you run it through Premiere Elements.

                         

                        I'm happy with the quality I'm seeing when I'm putting the film together. If quality degrades further on output that'll be a shame but I can deal with it...

                         

                        On the other hand, if you're shooting straight miniDV (~30 fps in NTSC or 25 fps in PAL) you should get excellent results no matter what you output!


                        I'll bear that in mind for the future. You live and learn. At some point I hope to take a few days and port the whole project into a pro-editor...

                        • 9. Re: Best format for rendering..
                          the_wine_snob Level 9
                          When I opened this discussion I wanted to find the absolute best render format and a decent second choice, so DivX might well be the way to go. I'll see what happens... I assume you consider Mpeg a step down from DivX ?

                           

                          When squeezing the file size down, one would have to adjust the MPEG encoder. By the time that you get the file sizes to match, it would probably be a toss-up. The "open-source" cousin to DivX (general CODEC is free), is Xvid, and it is totally free (though I have never been able to get any NLE to encode to Xvid), and available everywhere on the Internet. Depending on the exact CODEC in the MPEG wrapper, one might have to download an additional CODEC too.

                           

                          If I render to DV-AVI, is it easy for a friend with professional audio equipment to tweak the EQ track and then re-render it?

                           

                          For that, I would Export/Share to PCM/WAV, and working with that. If one has muxed a DV-AVI w/ PCM/WAV, then the audio-editor could rip it, with a program, like Audition, or Audacity.

                           

                          After rendering to DV-AVI is it possible to use an external compressor such as WinRar to decrease the file size or is this impossible?

                           

                          You might get some shrinkage, but image files and AV files do not compress much. A better program might be DVDShrink.

                           

                          Good luck,

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: Best format for rendering..
                            Positive Future Level 1

                            I tried a test render today and was very happy with the quailty of a straight up DV-AVI. There was virtually no quality loss. As you said though, a three minute file ended up over 700 MB, which only compresses down to 400odd with WinRar. This doesn't bother me but my internet connection is slow, so it looks like DivX is the way forward.

                             

                            Their site is a bit unclear:

                             

                            Can I just download the free encoder? Is there any point in paying for the pro version?

                             

                            *

                             

                            XVid seems like like too much hassle if Hunt can't get it to work...

                             

                            The Adobe Elements software I have is 2.5 years old, I am having trouble activating the encoders, but I guess that's a matter for customer support not here.

                             

                            Slow but sure progress...

                            • 11. Re: Best format for rendering..
                              Positive Future Level 1

                              Hmmm, it looks like I have to pay but 20 bucks is no big deal...

                              • 12. Re: Best format for rendering..
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                I have the Pro encoder on the workstation, but only the free CODEC on the laptop. I have not needed to use the encoder, as I can Export to DivX directly, with just the CODEC. I'll have to check to see if my PrE 4 can do that too, as I use PrPro mostly.

                                 

                                Back in a moment,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                 

                                [Edit] In PrE 4, using Export>Movie and MS AVI (not MS DV-AVI), under Video, I have the DivX COCDEC on the laptop, which does NOT have the DivX Pro Encoder installed. Hope that helps.

                                 

                                Message was edited by: Bill Hunt - Added [Edit]

                                • 13. Re: Best format for rendering..
                                  Positive Future Level 1

                                  I'm using version 3. I bought the software anyway... I'm sure it'll come in useful.

                                  • 14. Re: Best format for rendering..
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    Unfortunately, I cannot test how well, or poorly, PrE 3 might work. PrE 4 is my only version.

                                     

                                    Good luck,

                                     

                                    Hunt