23 Replies Latest reply on Apr 9, 2010 1:11 PM by the_wine_snob

    Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times

    csc-uk Level 1

      CS4 has just completed a 311 hours (yes, 2 bloody week) batch encode, going from input files AVCHD 1080i anamorphic with mixed 5.1 surround sound & stereo to H.264 with highest quality surround sound output and converted to 1440 type 1080p (see encoding options for H.264). This is very big HDTV files both in & out on 64-bit system. It lost the bloody soundtrack, this I found by bringing the output file into another 'next stage' Premiere Pro project, the conformation stage of importing the file did not occur and when I automised to track it said there was no audio and playing it showed no audio. So basically Media Encoder has dropped my bloody audio. Lets say that I am very angry, I have been having render bugs at various stages of this documentary making process & having to find workarounds because these idiots at Adobe do not test their own products but use us to do it for them. This is not the first time audio has been lost during encoding, partial loss has occurred in an earlier render. Has anybody had this basic catastrophic error & found a solution? Of course Adobe is not bothered, Adobe has had its money and doesn't provide any way to report savage bugs in its software.

        • 1. Re: Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          I always thought the maximum time line length in PR is 24 hours, so if that takes you 311 hours to encode you must have a really snail-like system.

           

          Did you use TS or none in the multiplexing tab when exporting?

          • 2. Re: Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            Quick question on the DD 5.1 SS: you do have the SurCode DD 5.1 SS encoder plug-in, don't you?

             

            Good luck,

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times
              csc-uk Level 1

              You do not have to encode 5.1 as

              Dolby Digital, I selected what I believe is analog surround sound and no demand for

              a plug in was made. I did see that this plug-in is required as an additional purchased DLC and

              avoided that encoding system. I think analog surround sound is called AACS

              . I did set it to highest quality sound, something like 660

              MHz. If you look in the encoding parameters for H.264 you will see it.

              • 4. Re: Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                What happens if you choose another Audio format, like PCM/WAV 2-channel? Remember, this is but a test.

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times
                  csc-uk Level 1

                  I cannot remember what option I set in the multiplexing tab cos the Encoder event log doesn't record that. The system is a 3GHz quadcore with 8Gb of memory on a nVidia 790i Ultra motherboard, the memory is DDR3 set to I think 1333MHz for stability. It has a disk for op sys a disk for general data both SATAII and it has a 6xSATAII RAID0 volume for the assets, so basically it is a fast system. I had 2 system usage monitors running in the sidebar these showed this system running at 100% usage of all 4 CPUs almost all the time, while memory usage crept up from 62% to 87% until the end when memory reached 100% and CPU declined to about 14%, this last phase is when I believe Encoder is doing encoding shutdown processing including where it should merge video & sound files into 1 MPEG4 file. For this last; where Encoder aborts early you will see separate video and audio files but after this last memory intensive phase those vanish and the merged audio-video file is produced. So 1 possibility is that it just loses the audio file without doing the merger in this last phase. Now, the PrPro individual programs are only 34-bit so individually they cannot address more than 4Gb of memory, before running Encoder memory usage is generally less than 30%, so PrPro is consuming between 34% to 70% of 8Gb of memory, a lot of this time it was consuming 54%, and additionally it works by running several copies of the program, 1 on each CPU, these symptoms of CPU & memory consumption are strongly signalling that Encoder was using paralllel processing by several copies of itself working together on the same render task & dividing it between them, this points to a possible error that the software has to not only divide up the work between parallel processes but also has to integrate the work product at the end and that the software is maybe failing in the work product integration phase.

                  • 6. Re: Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times
                    csc-uk Level 1

                    I am thinking of a separate sequence in the same project, then importing the rendered video-only file and placing it on that sequence, and then copying the audio tracks from the first sequence to this second sequence, then telling Encoder to render this second sequence. There were video type edits in the first sequence, and if I simplify the rendering it may be that the Encoder process can avoid dropping the ball. And maybe this second render will not take 311 hours. There is a danger of getting audio & video out of synch by this process. I will sleep on it.

                    • 7. Re: Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times
                      csc-uk Level 1

                      I sent the same sequence back to Encoder but this time told it only to render the audio, this took about 20 minutes and the result was a zero waveform file, so no sound. So this tells u sthat the problem is specific to Encoder's handling of the desired combination of inputs (mixed stereo and AVCHD-type 5.1) and outputs (AAC 5.1 highest quality). Since audio-only generation is fast I will try going through lower and lower quality renders including eventually if needs by stero and mono only renders. This is madness. Note that the size of teh output file was 1.5MB approx and was said to have the correct time length, it is just that the waveform is non-existence so there is total silence. You do wonder about these people at Adobe, they just don't test their product. So we do it for them. And they don't pay us for it.

                       

                       

                       

                       

                       

                      Message du 08/04/10 17:54

                      De : "Bill Hunt"

                      A : "JONES Peter"

                      Copie à :

                      Objet : Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times

                       

                      What happens if you choose another Audio format, like PCM/WAV 2-channel? Remember, this is but a test.

                       

                      Good luck,

                       

                      Hunt

                      >

                      • 8. Re: Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times
                        csc-uk Level 1

                        It is now experimentally confirmed that Media Encoder cannot handle a combination of 5.1 and stereo sound tracks. I restricted audio-only encoding to segments of the sequence that had only 5.1 and only stereo, these two renders both worked, silence only results from using a segment of the sequence that has both stereo and 5.1 contents. MAkes you want to slap your head doesn't it. Am I suppossed to somehow use soundbooth or audio mixer os some other tool to give instructions additional???? Another lovely bug from Adobe, when I pull these generated clips back into the project and start playing them no further input can be made to PrPro, it just runs away playing the audio only clip and you can not make any further inputs, to stop the program I had to restart the computer. Who are these people at Adobe???? Everywhere you turn you run into a bug.

                         

                         

                         

                         

                         

                        Message du 08/04/10 17:54

                        De : "Bill Hunt"

                        A : "JONES Peter"

                        Copie à :

                        Objet : Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times

                         

                        What happens if you choose another Audio format, like PCM/WAV 2-channel? Remember, this is but a test.

                         

                        Good luck,

                         

                        Hunt

                        >

                        • 9. Re: Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times
                          csc-uk Level 1

                          Next, I deleted all unused audio tracks & told Media Encoder to encode a small segment of the sequence which began in a 5.1 track & ended in a stereo track, this output was OK, so then I tried to encode the whole sequence audio and was back to a silent audio track. Weird. Next I shall experiment with opening up the range of the sequence encoded to try to find out if there is something on a specific portion of the timeline that throws Media Encoder into error, if I can isolate the place of the error thus I can get a better idea of the real underlying cause. Do you think Adobe will pay me for testing its product???

                           

                           

                           

                           

                           

                          Message du 08/04/10 17:54

                          De : "Bill Hunt"

                          A : "JONES Peter"

                          Copie à :

                          Objet : Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times

                           

                          What happens if you choose another Audio format, like PCM/WAV 2-channel? Remember, this is but a test.

                           

                          Good luck,

                           

                          Hunt

                          >

                          • 10. Re: Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times
                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                            Nice to hear your stories, but if we do not know your EXACT export / encode settings, you can't expect much fact based feedback. Maybe you will get some wild guesses, if that is what you are waiting for...

                             

                            Post a screenshot of your encode settings to help us help you.

                            • 11. Re: Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times
                              csc-uk Level 1

                              Screenshots can no longer be uploaded, that is what forums tell me.

                              I wrote them down though.

                              Format audio AAC

                              Channels 5.1

                              Frequency 48kHz.

                              Quality elevated.

                              Speed 640.

                              Precedence speed.

                               

                              For the tracks, they each have segments where there is no audio whatsoever, so the 5.1 and stereo sources don't overlap in time.

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                              Message du 09/04/10 13:05

                              De : "Harm Millaard"

                              A : "JONES Peter"

                              Copie à :

                              Objet : Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times

                               

                              Nice to hear your stories, but if we do not know your EXACT export / encode settings, you can't expect much fact based feedback. Maybe you will get some wild guesses, if that is what you are waiting for...

                               

                              Post a screenshot of your encode settings to help us help you.

                              >

                              • 12. Re: Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times
                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                So what happens when you follow Bill's advise and export as PCM/WAV? It may be an AAC problem.

                                • 13. Re: Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times
                                  Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                  It's possible that Pr can't handle multi-channel AAC audio for import.  I ran a quick test, and the multichannel audio data gets written to the file.  Try to play the AAC file in VLC - you should hear your audio.  Trying to import the multichannel AAC file into Pr, however, gives me the error that "there appears to be no media in the file", and the file never imports.  An H.264 MP4 file with multichannel AAC audio imports as video-only.

                                   

                                  You should file a bug report here:

                                   

                                  Adobe - Feature Request/Bug Report Form

                                   

                                  -Jeff

                                  • 14. Re: Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times
                                    csc-uk Level 1

                                    Try that later, the idea in testing is to find out the minimum distance I have to go from desired target, I have some strange results to relate.

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                    Message du 09/04/10 13:20

                                    De : "Harm Millaard"

                                    A : "JONES Peter"

                                    Copie à :

                                    Objet : Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times

                                     

                                    So what happens when you follow Bill's advise and export as PCM/WAV? It may be an AAC problem.

                                    >

                                    • 15. Re: Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times
                                      csc-uk Level 1

                                      Test results so far first.

                                      Sequence is about 5hrs14mins.

                                      1st audio track is stereo from about 17mins to about 5hrs10min.

                                      2nd track is 5.1 but null between about 16mins & 5hr10mins.

                                      Test renders for partial segments of the sequence were as follows.

                                      1.

                                      From 10mins to the end, result BLANK.

                                      2.

                                      from 15mins to 20mins, result OK.

                                      3.

                                      from 15mins to end, BLANK.

                                      4.

                                      15mins to 4hrs, BLANK.

                                      5.

                                      15mins to 2hrs, OK.

                                      6.

                                      1hr55 to 2hr, OK.

                                      7.

                                      1hr55 to 3hrs, OK.

                                      8.

                                      2hr55 to 4Hrs, OK.

                                       

                                      I thought 1st the problem was mixing 5.1 & stereo sources, this appears untrue.

                                      I thought 2nd that maybe input corrupt data at some point on timeline threw off the whole process, tests 4 to 8 read togther seem to sya not so.

                                       

                                      Now I hypothesise that the problem is length related, so as I write Media Encoder is doing the job in chunks of 1 hour or less, if these all are OK I will reintegrate the video-only render from the 311hr run with the several shorter audio 5.1-only segments and try on a second sequence to encode them all back together.

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      Message du 09/04/10 15:02

                                      De : "Jeff Bellune"

                                      A : "JONES Peter"

                                      Copie à :

                                      Objet : Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times

                                       

                                      It's possible that Pr can't handle multi-channel AAC audio for import. I ran a quick test, and the multichannel audio data gets written to the file. Try to play the AAC file in VLC - you should hear your audio. Trying to import the multichannel AAC file into Pr, however, gives me the error that "there appears to be no media in the file", and the file never imports. An H.264 MP4 file with multichannel AAC audio imports as video-only.

                                       

                                      You should file a bug report here:

                                       

                                      http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                                       

                                      -Jeff

                                      >

                                      • 16. Re: Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times
                                        csc-uk Level 1

                                        Each individual segment was converted OK, so now my soundtrack is all in AAC 5.1, and I am now going to launch the render of the second sequence that stitches all video & audio back together, this may turn out to be another big run so I am going to disconnect from the internet, big may be ******* weeks.

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        Message du 09/04/10 15:02

                                        De : "Jeff Bellune"

                                        A : "JONES Peter"

                                        Copie à :

                                        Objet : Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times

                                         

                                        It's possible that Pr can't handle multi-channel AAC audio for import. I ran a quick test, and the multichannel audio data gets written to the file. Try to play the AAC file in VLC - you should hear your audio. Trying to import the multichannel AAC file into Pr, however, gives me the error that "there appears to be no media in the file", and the file never imports. An H.264 MP4 file with multichannel AAC audio imports as video-only.

                                         

                                        You should file a bug report here:

                                         

                                        http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                                         

                                        -Jeff

                                        >

                                        • 17. Re: Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times
                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                          Jeff,

                                           

                                          I have also had issues with AAC Audio. When handed off to me, I use Audacity to convert that stream to PCM/WAV, as even Audition does not like AAC. Do not recall getting any AAC multi-channel stuff though.

                                           

                                          Just some observations,

                                           

                                          Hunt

                                          • 18. Re: Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times
                                            csc-uk Level 1

                                            AAC is the only 5.1 that you can have as an output from Media Encoder unless you pay Adobe more money for Dolby Digital.

                                            How can they put it in there and it not work?

                                            I have originally AVCHD form of 5.1, anything to be outputed by PrPro via Media Encoder is forced to AAC if to be 5.1, otherwise they just strip out your existing 5.1, how can they be alowed to mess this up?

                                            Anyways, I spoke too soon. Encoder says it successfully encoded the shortened segments, PrPro reads in those segments and they all appear OK, BUT when I tell Media Encoder to stitch all these partys back together it refuses givingthe following message at start of render request:

                                            "The number of output audio channel(s) needs to be the same as the number of input audio channel(s) or lower e.g. mono to stereo is not allowed."

                                            When I look at audio mixer for my two sequences, the first sequence shows that you can use the surround sound mixer, the so-called 5.1 panner puck, this is where you are shwn a graphic of a square and a pucker to move around it to say which direction you want the sound to appear to come from to include centering the puck. This panner pck option does not appear in PrPro audio mixer for the second sequence where I am trying to put all the parts back together again, like PrPro does not recognise Media Encoder's output as 5.1 for these purposes, yet for the audio track type designation PrPro does recognise these segments as 5.1. This is so screwy, they just get worse and worse. So I guess the error from Media Encoder is saying that my outpt from this second sequence is going to be 5.1 but that the input is something less than 5.1, so basically Adobe doesn't recognise its own ouputs, Adobe is just nuts.

                                            So are you sayingthat if I use PCM I get to stll have 5.1 and that Adobe will recognise consistently as 5.1 because when I look under H.264 for PCM you can only have stereo output??????? It is obvious AAC is crap, or rather Adobe AAC is crap. I just do not believe this.

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                            Message du 09/04/10 17:57

                                            De : "Bill Hunt"

                                            A : "JONES Peter"

                                            Copie à :

                                            Objet : Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times

                                             

                                            Jeff,

                                             

                                            I have also had issues with AAC Audio. When handed off to me, I use Audacity to convert that stream to PCM/WAV, as even Audition does not like AAC. Do not recall getting any AAC multi-channel stuff though.

                                             

                                            Just some observations,

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                            >

                                            • 19. Re: Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times
                                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                                              AAC is the only 5.1 that you can have as an output from Media Encoder unless you pay Adobe more money for Dolby Digital.

                                              How can they put it in there and it not work?

                                               

                                              Well, what one gets is a trial (3 encodes) of the SurCode DD 5.1 SS plug-in encoder, and then a special, reduced price, as an Adobe user. The cost of the SurCode plug-in, at the Adobe PrPro price, is mostly licensing fees to Dolby Labs.

                                               

                                              Good luck,

                                               

                                              Hunt

                                              • 20. Re: Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times
                                                csc-uk Level 1

                                                Well next I tried exporting soundtrack to avi 5.1, pulled that back in, looked OK, went to encode in H.264 AAC 5.1 to put video & sound back together again and same error message from Media Encoder ad before. DD Surcode is only for H.264 BluRay that I can see, I am not using H.264 BluRay yet. Anyways as I see it, PrPro says it will take a mix of 5.1 and stereo outputs and mix up the stereo to 5.1 and output the lot as 5.1, thn Media Encoder will take that & pretend that it is producing a 5.1 output but in fact the outrput is not in a recognisable 5.1 format & cannot be further used, it does not matter what codec you use eve if you avoid AAC for the up mix, this mixture simply cannot be done when working with PrPro. So if you are working with mixed sound sources, some stero and some 5.1, for output you must dumb down to stereo. How godawful!!!

                                                 

                                                 

                                                 

                                                 

                                                 

                                                 

                                                Message du 09/04/10 15:02

                                                De : "Jeff Bellune"

                                                A : "JONES Peter"

                                                Copie à :

                                                Objet : Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times

                                                 

                                                It's possible that Pr can't handle multi-channel AAC audio for import. I ran a quick test, and the multichannel audio data gets written to the file. Try to play the AAC file in VLC - you should hear your audio. Trying to import the multichannel AAC file into Pr, however, gives me the error that "there appears to be no media in the file", and the file never imports. An H.264 MP4 file with multichannel AAC audio imports as video-only.

                                                 

                                                You should file a bug report here:

                                                 

                                                http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                                                 

                                                -Jeff

                                                >

                                                • 21. Re: Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times
                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                  So if you are working with mixed sound sources, some stero and some 5.1, for output you must dumb down to stereo. How godawful!!!

                                                   

                                                  Because PrPro does not have a native 5.1 encoder, the solution is to use the SurCode DD 5.1 SS plug-in. If you go with that, be sure to purchase from within PrPro, and not directly from the Minnetonka Audio SurCode web site, as you will save ! US$ 50 on that purchase.

                                                   

                                                  Good luck,

                                                   

                                                  Hunt

                                                   

                                                  PS - now, there is a thread from about six moths ago, on Exporting 5.1 without the SurCode plug-in. Not sure of the method, or the validity of the poster's suggestions. Might want to do a Search for it. It was a pretty short thread, with some opensource/freeware programs involved. As I have two copies of the SurCode plug-in, I have to admit that I did not follow that thread too closely.

                                                  • 22. Re: Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times
                                                    csc-uk Level 1

                                                    Well a documentary where almost all the sound is narration doesn't need 5.1 surround sound, I have a few clips in 5.1 they will just have to be dumbed down for now to stereo. I have begun another render to join the output video only file from the 311 hour render to the sound only avi file, this render is estimated at another 85 hours. Just to note, to use my own 5.1 clips I have to pay $300 dollars more, but then again in the recording of the narration the camera would have allowed me to record a form of 5.1 but I set the switch to stereo so as to ensure the only sound recorded by the camera was from the wireless microphone pinned to me, but from other recordings I now know it would have still been OK. To produce a surround sound the camera combines inputs from the wireless mic and its built-in mic which I avoided for safety, and the stereo only voice recording sounds in PrPro playback just as good as a shorter surround sound voice recording. So all in all, I'll just try dumbing it all down to stereo and see if that is good enough, then move on. After having recorded the narration voice over the next phase is to actually edit in the documents that make a documentary a documentary, after that I will be left with getting ready to make the Blu Ray master using this "Export to OMF" feature (the factory says it will make the glass master from OMF). I don't want to get bogged down on arty things and buying plug-ins here and there. But thanks anyway. The answer to this thread overall is that by default if you mix stereo and audio sources you will have to either dumb down the encoding to stereo or pay for plug-ins and the plug-ins will cost several hundred dollars extra.

                                                     

                                                     

                                                     

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    Message du 09/04/10 19:45

                                                    De : "Bill Hunt"

                                                    A : "JONES Peter"

                                                    Copie à :

                                                    Objet : Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times

                                                     

                                                    So if you are working with mixed sound sources, some stero and some 5.1, for output you must dumb down to stereo. How godawful!!!

                                                     

                                                    Because PrPro does not have a native 5.1 encoder, the solution is to use the SurCode DD 5.1 SS plug-in. If you go with that, be sure to purchase from within PrPro, and not directly from the Minnetonka Audio SurCode web site, as you will save ! US$ 50 on that purchase.

                                                     

                                                    Good luck,

                                                     

                                                    Hunt

                                                     

                                                    PS - now, there is a thread from about six moths ago, on Exporting 5.1 without the SurCode plug-in. Not sure of the method, or the validity of the poster's suggestions. Might want to do a Search for it. It was a pretty short thread, with some opensource/freeware programs involved. As I have two copies of the SurCode plug-in, I have to admit that I did not follow that thread too closely.

                                                    >

                                                    • 23. Re: Premiere Pro CS4 batch encode lost audio & massive render times
                                                      the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                      The answer to this thread overall is that by default if you mix stereo and audio sources you will have to either dumb down the encoding to stereo or pay for plug-ins and the plug-ins will cost several hundred dollars extra.

                                                      That is correct. Last time that I checked, the SurCode DD 5.1 SS plug-in was US $ 249 / installation, if purchased from within PrPro, though that was some years ago. I get e-mails from Minnetonka Audio, with "sales" on other encoders, so the price might have fallen.

                                                       

                                                      I use DD 5.1 SS so often (for music, and some SFX field placement), that I bought two copies of the plug-in.

                                                       

                                                      Good luck, and hope that th Project goes well.

                                                       

                                                      Hunt