13 Replies Latest reply on Apr 17, 2010 3:32 PM by CFNJ

    More noise in ACR 5.7 than ACR 5.6

    sbeattie7

      After installing ACR 5.7, I have noticed that there is more noise in my RAW images from my Canon 40D.  I compared ACR 5.6 to Lr3B2 and noticed more noise in Lr3B2.  After upgrading to ACR 5.7, the noise is equal to Lr3B2 (which supposedly uses the same demosaic algorithm as ACR 5.7).  Here is an image comparing the same RAW image, with no adjustments, in ACR 5.6 and Lr3B2.  I started to notice the increased noise in Lr after updating to the Beta2.  I am assuming that the original beta used ACR 5.5 or 5.6 for the RAW processing engine. 

      Screen shot 2010-04-13 at 7.59.41 AM.png

        • 1. Re: More noise in ACR 5.7 than ACR 5.6
          MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee

          sbeattlie7, the demosaic process in 5.7/LR3b2 no longer removes noise, compared to 5.6. You may need to start applying some Luminance noise reduction.

           

          Eric

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: More noise in ACR 5.7 than ACR 5.6
            sbeattie7 Level 1

            I suspected that, since the noise reduction was dramatically improved in Lr3B2.  How do you know this anyway?  Is that written somewhere in the documentation for ACR5.7 or Lr3B2? 

             

            I guess the fix is to set a standard amount of noise reduction and perhaps update the camera profile so it applies it by default.  I guess I would prefer the demosaic to reduce some of the noise initially though and apply more noise reduction if needed on higher ISO images. 

            • 3. Re: More noise in ACR 5.7 than ACR 5.6
              MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee

              The easiest solution is to set Luminance to something moderate like 15 

              or 20, then visit the flyout menu and choose Save New Camera Raw 

              Defaults. That way you can  have some NR applied by default to all of 

              your images. The NR automatically auto-scales by ISO so it'll be 

              stronger at high iso even with a fixed number setting of, say, 20.

               

              Eric

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: More noise in ACR 5.7 than ACR 5.6
                sbeattie7 Level 1

                Thank you so much for your assistance on this!  This is really helpful!

                 

                -Scott

                • 5. Re: More noise in ACR 5.7 than ACR 5.6
                  Jeff Schewe Level 5

                  sbeattie7 wrote:

                   

                  How do you know this anyway?  Is that written somewhere in the documentation for ACR5.7 or Lr3B2?

                   

                  Eric works on the Camera Raw engineering team...so he's intimately involved in the code...as for docs, it's an RC not final shipping version...hopefully something will get mentioned in the main Camera Raw 5.7 READ ME file...

                  • 6. Re: More noise in ACR 5.7 than ACR 5.6
                    sbeattie7 Level 1

                    It's great to know that someone who really knows the answer has responded.  Thanks to both of you!

                    • 7. Re: More noise in ACR 5.7 than ACR 5.6
                      CFNJ

                      MadManChan2000 wrote:

                       

                      ...the demosaic process in 5.7/LR3b2 no longer removes noise, compared to 5.6...

                       

                      Eric

                      Eric

                       

                      Does this just apply to process version 2010 or does it also apply to process version 2003?

                       

                      If it applies to both, and assuming it also will apply to Lightroom 3 (which I plan to upgrade to), I will need to keep an earlier version of LR if I wish to print photographs processed earlier without any changes.

                       

                      This is not a problem but it is good to know the answer before upgrading.

                       

                      Regards

                      Nigel

                       

                      PS Compliments to the CR/LR team as the noise reduction and sharpness improvements in LR3b2 are great, but sometimes one doesn't wish to spend additional time if reprinting old files.

                      • 8. Re: More noise in ACR 5.7 than ACR 5.6
                        sbeattie7 Level 1

                        I could be wrong, but from what I have seen in LR3b2 and the new ACR 6 in Ps CS5, it looks like you can switch back and forth between the 2003 process version and the 2010 version.  I saw Scott Kelby demo that feature in ACR 6 on Photoshop User TV. 

                        • 9. Re: More noise in ACR 5.7 than ACR 5.6
                          CFNJ Level 1

                          sbeatie7

                           

                          I am aware that you can swap between process versions, my question related to the demosaic process and noise.

                           

                          Nigel

                          • 10. Re: More noise in ACR 5.7 than ACR 5.6
                            MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee

                            Hi Nigel, yes you are correct. The process version changes in LR 3 beta 2 (between PV 2003 and PV 2010) are limited to sharpening, noise reduction, and fill light. There are other under-the-hood imaging changes such as demosaic and the addition of dithering when converting from 16-bit to 8-bit (to reduce banding, for example); these are "built-in" changes in the sense that they don't have any UI controls (unlike sharpening, NR, and fill light, which clearly do). I realize this is somewhat complex for the user who just wants the "stuff to work" but I figured might as well get the info out there.

                             

                            Whether or not you need to keep around an earlier version of LR depends somewhat on the image content. The demosaic changes are going to be more noticeable at high ISO settings. If you do primarily low ISO or intermediate ISO shooting, for instance, it's quite unlikely you'd see any differences at all. But if you shoot primarily at very high ISO and rely a lot on noise reduction, then it's something to consider.

                             

                            Eric

                            • 11. Re: More noise in ACR 5.7 than ACR 5.6
                              CFNJ Level 1

                              Eric,

                               

                              Thank you for your answer, it is largely low ISO shots that I am concerned with as I am likely to reprocess high noise shots due to the great improvements in noise reduction in process 2010. I will probably leave LR 2.6 installed just-in-case after upgrading to LR3.

                               

                              Once again I would like to congratulate you and the team on all the great improvements you have made.

                               

                              Nigel

                              • 12. Re: More noise in ACR 5.7 than ACR 5.6
                                MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee

                                Hi Nigel,

                                 

                                Thanks ...

                                 

                                I'm sure you already know this, but just in case: due to the catalog upgrade process in LR 3 beta 2, you can't use LR 2.x to open a LR 3 beta 2 catalog (I expect this behavior to carry through to the final LR 3 release). Hence if you plan to keep around LR 2.x, you should keep a copy of your LR 2 catalog too, i.e., before the upgrade to the LR 3 catalog. I would argue this is not a bad idea in any case, to have a backup of the older format catalog. That is, the backup doesn't hurt, and it easily zip-compresses down to a tiny size if you're concerned about disk space.

                                 

                                Eric

                                • 13. Re: More noise in ACR 5.7 than ACR 5.6
                                  CFNJ Level 1

                                  Eric,

                                   

                                  I was aware of the need to keep the LR2 catalogue, but thanks for the reminder. Your comment will also be of use to others.

                                   

                                  Nigel