15 Replies Latest reply on Apr 21, 2010 12:09 PM by adbjstinvnstvrn

    JPEG quality loss when exporting-FLV

    adbjstinvnstvrn

      I edit/produce  2 minute videos for my company.  in the video I attach a simple JPEG logo that looks fine during the edit.  Previously, we exported to WMV and there were no issues.  Now, we have made the move to FLV and my logo experiences a significant loss of quality, becoming rather pixelated and 'blocky' - Any ideas on how I can make it smooth and clear?

       

      Its a small, simple logo about 14kb.  I have experimented with the output settings in AME, but nothing changes

       

      As always, THANKS!

        • 1. Re: JPEG quality loss when exporting-FLV
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          First, having the logo in JPEG has already compressed it greatly, loosing data. Then, if you so any Scaling in PrPro, things compound and get worse.

           

          Also, what are the exact settings that you are using for the FLV Export? Those can make a difference, and in a hurry.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: JPEG quality loss when exporting-FLV
            adbjstinvnstvrn Level 1

            What format would you suggest for the logo?  I don't need to use JPEG, just don't know what is better.  I actually don't scale it in premiere pro, I scale it in Photoshop.  As I mentioned, it always looked pretty good in WMV, but not good in FLV..

             

            Here is a screenshot of my settings:

             

             

             

             

             

             

            Thanks for your help Hunt!

            • 3. Re: JPEG quality loss when exporting-FLV
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              Both TIFF and PSD would be better and even PNG (if you need Transparency, but as JPEG does not support that, should not be an issue). Now, with PSD's, there have been some cases where tiny Layers did not Import well. This might impact your logo.

               

              Good luck,

               

              Hunt

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: JPEG quality loss when exporting-FLV
                adbjstinvnstvrn Level 1

                I'll give those options a try.  seems as though you did not see my screenshot as I sent it in an email...  I'll let you know how it goes.

                 

                thanks man!

                • 5. Re: JPEG quality loss when exporting-FLV
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  No, I do not see any attached image files in the posts. Likely that through e-mail, it did not attach. If you can access via the Web, you can use the little "camera" icon on the editing screen to attach an image.

                   

                  Adobe_Forum_Image.jpg

                   

                  Good luck,

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 7. Re: JPEG quality loss when exporting-FLV
                    adbjstinvnstvrn Level 1

                    Hunt,  did my screenshot provide any clues?

                     

                    Perhaps its my export settings, because even if I output to WMV (where the files look clear), then turn the WMV into a FLV - my logo takes on the same loss..  Don't really get it.

                    • 8. Re: JPEG quality loss when exporting-FLV
                      Colin Brougham Level 6

                      Without seeing an actual sample of the problem, are you talking about the "citi" logo at the bottom right corner? If so, what you're seeing is the VP6 codec's poor handling of the color red--solid red sections tend to turn into Lego blocks really quickly. I don't know exactly why, but I've noticed this as well with reds. It also doesn't seem to like really hard-edged transitions from one visual element to another, so your light blue text in the logo to the dark blue bar is probably not helping much, either.

                       

                      You might have some luck trying a few things. For one, decrease the saturation of the red in Photoshop; that should help a bit. You could also try adding a faint glow and/or drop shadow to the logo; this will create a smoother transition between the colors of the foreground and background elements, and the codec will be forced to apply less compression to that part of the image. Finally, you might try using the Gaussian Blur option under the Filter tab in the export window. Only set it to about 1-1.5 pixel blur; this, like adding a shadow or glow to the logo, will force the codec to be a little more generous with the available bitrate, and should result in a somewhat better encode.

                       

                      Hope some of that helps!

                      • 9. Re: JPEG quality loss when exporting-FLV
                        adbjstinvnstvrn Level 1

                        Wow, that is in-depth!

                         

                        I will give these ideas a run in the next couple hours and get back to you. Thanks!!!

                        • 10. Re: JPEG quality loss when exporting-FLV
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          Colin beat me to the punch, and with a better explanation than I would have offered. Glad that I was away from the computer for a bit.

                           

                          I hope that helps explain what is happening, and why it is happening.

                           

                          Now, one thought, and do not know if I mentioned it up-thread, is to use PNG-24 out of PS, instead of JPEG, as it will likely look better in FLV, though not sure if it'll be THAT much better.

                           

                          Good luck, and thanks Colin,

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 11. Re: JPEG quality loss when exporting-FLV
                            adbjstinvnstvrn Level 1

                            You had mentioned using TIFF, PSD and PNG - I actually don't see PNG-24 in PS when I choose the Save As option..  I'll try the other three.

                             

                            As it is, I usually put the opacity around 90% for the logo - and I do that within Premiere.  Would it be better if I did not?  Would it make any difference?

                             

                            Thanks

                            • 12. Re: JPEG quality loss when exporting-FLV
                              Colin Brougham Level 6

                              Now, one thought, and do not know if I mentioned it up-thread, is to use PNG-24 out of PS, instead of JPEG, as it will likely look better in FLV, though not sure if it'll be THAT much better.

                              Bill,

                               

                              Unfortunately, it's not the image file format that's the culprit here, but rather, the destination codec. In fact, most codecs seem to suffer from "the red blues"--you can even see nasty stair-stepping with saturated reds in a DV-encoded file. Delivery codecs like VP6 and even H.264 suffer from this to an even greater extent, likely due to the way the codecs work when slicing an image into smaller and smaller blocks. You see the artifacting because the codecs simply aren't able to deal with the harsh line between relatively unsaturated video (as most is) and the super-saturated reds. Now, if you threw enough bitrate at an encode, it might be able to process it better, but at bitrates necessary for web delivery, you'll almost always see this.

                               

                              For an example of this, check out the video on this page. At about 10 seconds in, notice the extreme jaggies on the red stripes of the flag logo; compare that to the poster frame that originally appears in the player (which a JPG), which is much smoother. Of course, I haven't followed my own advice here...

                               

                              This brings up an interesting point: you're actually probably better off using a more highly compressed image file (like a JPG) instead of something uncompressed and razor sharp (like an PNG24 or TIF) when you're designing graphics for web video. The graphic will be softer in the editor, but upon encoding, will probably look better due to the digital schmutz applied by the JPG compression! This is worthy of a test...

                              1 person found this helpful
                              • 13. Re: JPEG quality loss when exporting-FLV
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                Interesting as always. Thanks for the info.

                                 

                                It sounds a little bit like why a little Blur will yield better results on Titles, and Menus vs a very crisp image of text.

                                 

                                Appreciated,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 14. Re: JPEG quality loss when exporting-FLV
                                  adbjstinvnstvrn Level 1

                                  UPDATE:

                                   

                                  after redesigning my company logo over and over again.. it turned out that the JPEG was the better option and the only thing that really seemed to help was turning down the Saturation..  Only problem there is that now my arc that was previously bright red, is now kinda dull.  It's silly because we have been using WMV on our website and that has been fine.  But we made the decision to 'upgrade' to Flash since it is now the industry standard, and I run into these problems...

                                   

                                  Hard to imagine there isn't some better way for me to maintain our professional look.

                                   

                                  In anycase, I really appreciate all the ideas - Would never have figured it out on my own.

                                  • 15. Re: JPEG quality loss when exporting-FLV
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    Thank you for reporting, and sorry that the logo is not up to your standards through FLV.

                                     

                                    Good luck,

                                     

                                    Hunt