27 Replies Latest reply on Jul 23, 2010 4:47 PM by Bill Gehrke

    So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???

    jbchichoko

      We can see that Adobe has produced another great product. And of course i am talking about Pr's new "Mercury Playback Engine".

       

      I understand that Adobe will definitely support GPUs in the future, but lets take a look at the list of supported GPU right now on the link below..

      http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/performance/

       

      Its clear where the Adobe Pr team are heading up. They are going up those Quadro and (Fuadro and Guadro and Zuadro and Huadro), I think the last updated list of supported GPU will be the same list of GPU like this. Only Quadro and Quadro..

       

      Well, if the list of suported GPU goes like this, then whats the point? First think we average users can't afford those over-priced cards. And, wow, buy those Quadro Cards just to play this "Mercury Playback Engine" on Pr CS5??... and looks like the Pr CS5 is made only for HollyWood film makers...

       

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De5N9IjUkNo

      Just look at this guy review on the Mercury Playback Engine. He has a damn 16 core CPU with Quadro GPU. Of course the Video will play smooth. Whats the point of that review on Mercury playback? I bet the video will still run fine even if the Pr CS5 didn't have mercury playback...

       

      Personally I think the Mercury Playback should be supported for all most all GPUs, meaning the accelerated playback will depend on the GPU. Powerful GPU means greater worflow, AND less powerful GPU means less accelerated playback. Not just a completed unsupported GPU. Its like having a GPU but processing the video workflow with CPU.

       

      Also there is yet another great story to be told from users who have ATI GPUs.

       

      So right now, personally, the mercury playback engine or whatever is heading to a sewer for me.. I don't know what you guys think...

       

      Thank you for your time,

        • 1. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Mr. Choko,

           

           

          Personally I think the Mercury Playback should be supported for all most all GPUs

           

          The lucky fact is, it is. So where is the failure?

          • 2. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
            jbchichoko Level 1

            Well, right now. It really sounds failure to me, i mean the mercury playback engine.

             

            It's as if the Adobe made this Playback engine only to Hollywood directors.

             

            What about the average users like us? We have got some decent geforce GPU and the team is heading for Quadro'ssss architect.

             

            Complete failure for me, again.

            • 3. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
              Harm Millaard Level 7

              MPE is supported for ATI and other nVidia cards, it is inherent to CS5, so what are you complaining about?

               

              You are not making much sense, but maybe that is because you lack the information to make a proper judgement.

              • 4. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
                jbchichoko Level 1

                You are not making much sense

                It's called mental retardation...

                • 5. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
                  John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  From what I have read (no, I am not going to link every CS5 discussion for the past month) there are 2 parts to MPE

                   

                  Part1 is only in software, and works with all cards

                   

                  Part2 activates the CUDA engine in selected nVidia cards

                   

                  Yesterday, I ordered the hardware to build a 64bit computer... including a PNY GTX 285 card for $350 to make use of CUDA/MPE

                   

                  For my home video work, that is both all I need and all I can afford

                   

                  Someone doing this for pay might want to spend more $$ and buy an nVidia card with greater use of the CUDA cores

                  • 6. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
                    shooternz Level 6

                    @the O.P

                     

                    I am just curious but what camera do you shoot with?

                     

                    I expect your answer is going to be some consumer or maybe prosumer camera.  (Correct me if I am wrong and you actually have a Panaflex Production camera in your studio.)

                     

                    What othe post production gear do you have in your suite - Flame, Flint etc ( you are very lucky if you do)

                     

                    My point is..some film makers can afford to shoot with very high end cameras and technologies  and others not.  It is not a GOD-GIVEN right that everyone has access to the latest and greatest.   (They are investments).

                     

                    Well ... the same applies to post production technologies. (and most other things in life).

                    • 7. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
                      jbchichoko Level 1

                      John T Smith wrote:

                       

                      Part1 is only in software, and works with all cards

                       

                      Part2 activates the CUDA engine in selected nVidia cards

                       

                      Only reason why I made this post/ discussion was "this is exactly what a retailer said to me about Pr CS5" when I asked him..

                       

                      So, @ John T Smith,

                       

                      If a user has a nvidia GPU which has CUDA cores, (as u said on Part2) will the MPE work? For example I have Geforce GTS 250 1 GB PNY..

                      What about the other GPUs similiar like this one???

                       

                      Correct me if I am wrong...

                      • 9. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
                        Pcenginefx Level 1

                        jbchichoko: I too feel what you are talking about.  On those video demos they are using 12+ core systems with Quadro cards so of course the video on the timeline looks amazing.  It would have been better if the demos showed off not only how the MPE performed on a 12 core system, but also on say a i7-930 and such, but of course when a company is demoing a software product they want to show it in the best light possible (thus using workstations that only production companies would generally have).

                         

                        CS5 supports the Nvidia GTX 285 which is under $400, so if you really need the extra timeline boost, this is the cheapest (and only) way to go.  It is unfortunate that not more affordable cards are supported, but this will change in time.

                        • 10. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
                          chupacabracobra Level 1
                          function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                          shooternz wrote:

                           

                          @the O.P

                           

                          I am just curious but what camera do you shoot with?

                           

                          I expect your answer is going to be some consumer or maybe prosumer camera.  (Correct me if I am wrong and you actually have a Panaflex Production camera in your studio.)

                           

                          What othe post production gear do you have in your suite - Flame, Flint etc ( you are very lucky if you do)

                           

                          My point is..some film makers can afford to shoot with very high end cameras and technologies  and others not.  It is not a GOD-GIVEN right that everyone has access to the latest and greatest.   (They are investments).

                           

                          Well ... the same applies to post production technologies. (and most other things in life).

                          What the OP is getting at is that all of a sudden they are acting all paranoid about making sure each system will be 100% perfectly compat, nevermind that they obviously can't test every CPU/OS/motherboard/install combination or that even if a particular driver for a particular card works in version A.B.1 who says they can guarantee A.B.2 anyway. So why are they saying you can only use Quadro or GTX 285? What is so stunningly different about the 285 from many of the other 200 cards? The only stunning difference I see is that NVidia probably wants to push only Quadros and whatever is the most expensive consumer card of the day and that this whole this all about pushing certain cards.

                           

                          Maybe that is being too paranoid, but the whole thing sure seems incredibly suspicious. None of my other CUDA stuff tries to lock itself into only using certain cards. (When I force it to use my GTX 275, it doesn't crash and it does help to speed certain things up (although it seems like no cards are getting used to decode h.264 which could be a 10x performance increase and one of the single largest you could get for AVCHD editing, even with a $75 card, maybe they couldn't mesh it well with also driving effects???)) Then again it may be nothing bad at all as....

                           

                          ....then again since it is so unbelievably easy to hack it to make it work with other cards, maybe it was done that way on purpose. Maybe they do want to insure an official path for CUDA is stable and yet they known it is crazy to lock everyone out who wants to give it a go anyway (since chances are it will work) so they made it incredibly easy and obvious how to hack in support for other cards. So they are giving everyone the ability to use it while also avoiding having to deal with support issues just in the odd case something does wack out, which is fair enough (and while also scaring some who might have been willing to give other cards a go first, into rushing out and getting Quadros or whatever most expensive conumer card of each generation and thus making nvidia happy).

                           

                          I'm just afraid that if the above interpretation is wrong and that there really is some very strict out and out deal with Nvidia and Nvidia gets mad, then Adobe might release some future patch that might suddenly make it much harder to crack. So then after you pay all the money to upgrade to CS5 they will patch it in 2 months and lock out the card you are using and force you to suddenly give back performance or buy some rip-off card you might not have money for at the time or not want for some other reason (noise/a low quadro can perform worse for other stuff than a high-end consumer card even though costing a ton more). Hopefully not.

                           

                          Anyway, whatever the case, the software engine definitely handles h.264 decoding better than before (although if h.264 HW decode had been/had been able to have been used that would/would've radically improved h.264/AVCHD decoding speed) so CS5 certainly is a noticeable step up from CS4. Also, pretty much any CUDA card seems to help to one degree or another, whether it is officially supported or not (and it does seem a bit odd that only Quadro and each consumer generation's single most expensive card made the list, i.e. 285 way back when they first put out the list and now they are only talking about the more expensive 400-series Fermi card; but so long as they don't change the current system, it doesn't matter in the end and it's all good).

                          • 11. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
                            Lankababa

                            I have a nVidia GTX8800 and ATI FirePro 7740 and having NO Joy setting up the Mercury Playback Engine andy advice

                            • 12. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
                              chupacabracobra Level 1
                              function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                              Lankababa wrote:

                               

                              I have a nVidia GTX8800 and ATI FirePro 7740 and having NO Joy setting up the Mercury Playback Engine andy advice

                              not sure what to say it should, just barely, meet the CUDA specs

                               

                              maybe you are typing in the card name wrong?

                              It has to exactly match waht the sniffer calls it

                              • 13. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
                                Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                The typical 8800GT's only has 512 MB of Video RAM, the MPE requires 768 MB, darn it I have two 8800GT's!

                                • 14. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
                                  jbchichoko Level 1

                                  Bill Gehrke wrote:

                                   

                                  The typical 8800GT's only has 512 MB of Video RAM, the MPE requires 768 MB, darn it I have two 8800GT's!

                                  Sorry mate but memory is the issue with the MPE.. Its the GPU that Adobe is looking for:

                                  Only GTX 285 from Gefore, the rest all the Quadro and Fuadroooosss and Gwudroooosss..

                                   

                                  I have a 1GB GTS 250 and yet the MPE suckss. What this means is that Adobe and nVidia wants to use make money.. Not just make money,

                                  but a lot of profitss $$$ ... They don't average people like us. They just like to say:

                                   

                                  "If dont have those suppoprted GPUs, then GTFO"... Its simple is that... Premiere Pro not for people like us...

                                   

                                  So again

                                   

                                  I say

                                   

                                  Mercury Playback Engine = Help Adobe and nVidia make profits $$$ = FAILURE FOR US

                                  • 15. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
                                    shooternz Level 6
                                    Its simple is that... Premiere Pro not for people like us...

                                     

                                    Just like Ferraris, Rolexs, MACs, Lear jets, Arriflexs, , ..............

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                    Must add first job I put thru my MPE enabled NLE paid for the FX3800 Quadro I installed.  Guess you could include me amongst those that "makes profit $$$" .   Cant see where its failed me at all.

                                    • 16. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
                                      Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      I solved my problem by buying a used but perfectly good GTX 285 for a reasonable price.  I roll with the improvements and enjoy the benefits..

                                      • 17. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
                                        chupacabracobra Level 1
                                        function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                                        jbchichoko wrote:

                                         

                                        Bill Gehrke wrote:

                                         

                                        The typical 8800GT's only has 512 MB of Video RAM, the MPE requires 768 MB, darn it I have two 8800GT's!

                                        Sorry mate but memory is the issue with the MPE.. Its the GPU that Adobe is looking for:

                                        Only GTX 285 from Gefore, the rest all the Quadro and Fuadroooosss and Gwudroooosss..

                                         

                                        I have a 1GB GTS 250 and yet the MPE suckss. What this means is that Adobe and nVidia wants to use make money.. Not just make money,

                                        but a lot of profitss $$$ ... They don't average people like us. They just like to say:

                                         

                                        "If dont have those suppoprted GPUs, then GTFO"... Its simple is that... Premiere Pro not for people like us...

                                         

                                        So again

                                         

                                        I say

                                         

                                        Mercury Playback Engine = Help Adobe and nVidia make profits $$$ = FAILURE FOR US

                                         

                                        well, my GTX 275 does speed up some effects

                                        if you enter the name of your card into the text file then non-approved cards that meet requirements do work

                                        • 18. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
                                          Lankababa Level 1

                                          I have the FirePro 7740 which meets all the requirements. Please let me what file I need to change and what that changers need to be.

                                          ATI FirePro M7740. Will this let me use the MPE when I change the TEXT file.

                                           

                                          Thanks for the Help

                                           

                                          Its been so stressfull

                                          • 19. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
                                            Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            Sorry but no ATI card can be used for hardware MPE acceleration.

                                            • 20. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
                                              shooternz Level 6

                                              ATI FirePro M7740. Will this let me use the MPE when I change the TEXT file.

                                               

                                               

                                              Which part of the words  "NVIDIA"  and 'supported cards"  do you not understand?

                                               

                                              No wonder its stressfull for you!

                                               

                                               

                                              • 21. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
                                                i-tore

                                                As simple as following these easy steps. I made my Quadro 3700M compatible with MPE in a snap. Non Quadro cards work as well. As for ATI, maybe the hack from before also works...

                                                • 22. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
                                                  SDNova

                                                  Hi,

                                                  My supplier told me that the GTX285 was no longer available but the GTX480 was a new model that more CUDA cores and would out perform the GTX285.

                                                  As I now know the GTX480 is not on the certified list to be used with the Mercury Playback Engine.

                                                  Is that because it's too new and hasn't been tested or because it's just not up to par?

                                                  Do you think it will be added to the certified list eventually?

                                                  Thanks for your opinion.

                                                   

                                                  Suzanne

                                                  • 23. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
                                                    Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                    Suzanne,

                                                     

                                                    The GTX 480 or the GTX 470 work great.  You just have to make the small easy "hack" to one of the Premiere Files  Yes, there is no reason that Adobe will not eventually add these cards to their list.

                                                    • 24. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
                                                      chupacabracobra Level 1
                                                      function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                                                      Bill Gehrke wrote:

                                                       

                                                      Suzanne,

                                                       

                                                      The GTX 480 or the GTX 470 work great.  You just have to make the small easy "hack" to one of the Premiere Files  Yes, there is no reason that Adobe will not eventually add these cards to their list.

                                                       

                                                      Indeed, the 480 is able to carry out CUDA programs far more effeciently than the 285.

                                                      How much of a difference it makes to PP, at least currently, I have no idea. I know that with specialized 3D graphics programming the 480 can often run things multiple times faster (but don not expect overall PP performance to go up multiple times compared to 285 card since cuda is only used for a few things and it's very possible that it might only be a modest little improvement).

                                                      • 25. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
                                                        Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                        Sorry, but I have to take difference with your generalized statement.  I personally own both a GTX 480 and a GTX 285 and with our latest comprehensive PPBM5 benchmark I cannot see any difference.  Now I do agree that the GTX 480 should be faster, but I have not been able to find any difference when using the same platform and even doing sequential testing of the two different graphics boards.  I would guess downstream in later versions of CS5 there probably will be a significant difference.

                                                        • 26. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
                                                          chupacabracobra Level 1
                                                          function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                                                          Bill Gehrke wrote:

                                                           

                                                          Sorry, but I have to take difference with your generalized statement.  I personally own both a GTX 480 and a GTX 285 and with our latest comprehensive PPBM5 benchmark I cannot see any difference.  Now I do agree that the GTX 480 should be faster, but I have not been able to find any difference when using the same platform and even doing sequential testing of the two different graphics boards.  I would guess downstream in later versions of CS5 there probably will be a significant difference.

                                                          as I said, for PPro, since CUDA is used so little and only off and on, the improvements might be only very modest, at least currently, and it sounds like it's closer to zero than even merely very modest

                                                           

                                                          but believe me if you code full out with CUDA, say a ray-tracer, the speed up between 480 vs 285 is pretty huge

                                                          it has a far more efficient setup for switching in and out and jumping around memory more randomly, etc.

                                                          • 27. Re: So Mercury Playback Engine failure for Average's's's???
                                                            Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                            I would disagree with your statement that it is used very little  Compare these to timelines and see which you would rather be working with.

                                                            Timeline-with-MPE-On.jpg

                                                            This is with MPE Hardware Acceleration with GPU.  Notice how little red there is.


                                                            Timeline-with-MPE-Off.jpg

                                                            This is the same timeline with only software MPE (i.e, CPU)  Notice how red the render line is.

                                                             

                                                            The Timeline is with loads of effects with AVCHD 1080i 29.97, XDCAM-EX 1920i 25, HDV 1080i 25 and DV PAL clips and MPE via software only.   This is a very major difference in speeding up editing wokflow.  Remember this is a playback engine and it is extremely difficult to quantify the time saving that this new capability brings to NLE.