22 Replies Latest reply on May 1, 2010 5:06 AM by DVDmike

    Adobe's Upgrade Policy Unfair - Buyer Beware.

    photobugphotobug

      I had an early version of Premiere, Version 6.1, from many years ago. I switch to Liquid Edition then, mainly because the DVD authoring was integrated and better. Recently, I decided to go back to Premiere for the AVCHD editing and the Liquid line is being dropped. I purchased the CS4 upgrade on 3/1. Adobe announced in early April CS5. I didn't feel it was fair to ask me to pay another $300 to upgrade to CS5 since I just paid $300 to upgrade to CS4.

       

      I contacted Adobe and they could care less. I could have bought the CS4 upgrade on April 11th, one day before the CS5 announcement, and I would still have to pay another $300 to upgrade from CS4 to CS5.

       

      Be careful when you upgrade - it may cost you more than you think.

        • 1. Re: Adobe's Upgrade Policy Unfair - Buyer Beware.
          Joseph_Morabito

          And they wonder why people opt for "sharing".


          • 2. Re: Adobe's Upgrade Policy Unfair - Buyer Beware.
            Keith_Andrews Level 1

            I feel your pain, but maybe you should consider becoming one of us early adopters when the next version rolls out.  Even though doing so may cause you some headaches with the initial bugs, at least you can rest assured you will be getting 18+ months of continuous development updates and support.

            • 3. Re: Adobe's Upgrade Policy Unfair - Buyer Beware.
              shooternz Level 6

              I cant believe that you purchased an upgrade one day before a highly publicised announcement  of a new release!

              • 4. Re: Adobe's Upgrade Policy Unfair - Buyer Beware.
                Phil Griffith Level 2

                I can sympathize with you. But just what do you think the cutoff date should be? What if it was March 1 and you bought it 2-28?  I think it (cs5) had been anticipated for quite some time, and there was a lot of buzz about it.  There will always be missed opportunities out there no matter where you look.

                • 5. Re: Adobe's Upgrade Policy Unfair - Buyer Beware.
                  photobugphotobug Level 1

                  I did not. I purchased the upgrade on 3/1. I was told by Adobe Customer Support that even if I had purchased the upgrade on 4/11, one day before the announcement, I would still have to pay $300 to upgrade to CS5.

                  • 6. Re: Adobe's Upgrade Policy Unfair - Buyer Beware.
                    photobugphotobug Level 1

                    I thought about this and I think some kind of sliding or prorated scale would have been fair. I only had CS4 for about 5 weeks and paying $300 for that limited time does not seem right. I did not see any definitive date on Adobe's site about when CS5 would be released until they made the pre-announcment on 4/12. If they did post the 4/15 date on their web site by 3/1, then it is my fault for not paying attention. Like I said, when I bought the upgrade I did not see any date when CS5 would be out.

                    • 7. Re: Adobe's Upgrade Policy Unfair - Buyer Beware.
                      Curt Wrigley Level 4

                      On the bright side they let you upgrade from an ancient ver.   I believe PS only allows upgrading from Cs2 +

                      • 8. Re: Adobe's Upgrade Policy Unfair - Buyer Beware.
                        photobugphotobug Level 1

                        Buy.com is offering the complete CS4 product for $542 with free shipping.

                         

                        http://www.buy.com/prod/adobe-premiere-pro-cs4-v-4-0-complete-product-1-user-pc/q/listingi d/50757133/loc/105/208937681.html

                         

                        Adobe gives you a free upgrade to CS5 if you purchase the CS4 product after CS5 is announced. They call it a "post-announcement upgrade".

                         

                        http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/153/tn_15304.html

                         

                        I bought the CS4 upgrade from B&H for $275 and Adobe wants $300 for the CS4 to CS5 upgrade. I really don't see the bright side.

                        • 9. Re: Adobe's Upgrade Policy Unfair - Buyer Beware.
                          pmasters8941 Level 1

                          I really don't see how this is buyer beware. Would you walk into a car dealership and buy new car and expect the dealer to provide you with a new model if one came out the next day?Adobe's policy has always been clear when it came to free upgrades and it is done for a purpose. Typically what happens when a company announces new software, customers tend to freeze their purchases and wait for the new version. Adobe does not want to penalize those customers who buy after the announcement, hence the free upgrade because those same people would have bought the newer version if it had been shipping at the time they made their purchase.

                           

                          Singling out Adobe is plainly ridiculous and frankly, disrespectful. This happens at nearly every software and hardware shop. 2 Years ago, I bought a MacBook Pro the day before the new models were announced. My only gripe, the new models were faster and cheaper than what I paid for a day earlier. Do you think Apple cut me a break? Not a chance.

                           

                          It sucks you spent money on an older version with a new one right around the corner. It happens. Perhaps instead of "Buyer Beware" your title should be changed to "Buyer Be Informed" before you make a purchase.

                           

                          You made an investment, wise or not. Now you can take your investment and complete some work that will pay for the new version. Oh but be forewarned, free shipping ends April 29 if you purchase today. If you purchase April 30 or later you will have to pay for shipping. I hope we do not see a thread with "Adobe's Shipping Policy Unfair".

                          • 10. Re: Adobe's Upgrade Policy Unfair - Buyer Beware.
                            Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Buy.com is offering the complete CS4 product for $542 with free shipping.

                            That's just Premiere, not the full thing.  And you're buying it from dealsonline, with a 5%  negative and 2% neutral rating.

                            • 11. Re: Adobe's Upgrade Policy Unfair - Buyer Beware - Not
                              DVDmike Level 1

                              These posts come up at every new release where someone purchased the current version just one day, week, month, year before the cutoff for a free upgrade and has sour grapes towards adobe.  While I am usually sympathetic to the people who miss the cutoff date by a few days, I do not blame Adobe for not being fair.  Then again, I don't blame the lottery when someone is just one digit off from the big money either.  Unless you are an early adopter of a new release there is always going to be some "risk" that you buy a version that it about to be the previous version.  But if the version that you purchased in the first place is good enough for you to purchase it, then you really have not lost anything.  Just keep on using it without upgrading.

                               

                              Usually no one knows when the next upgrade is going be released.  But in this case, anyone who did not know know that adobe was about to release/announce CS5 and that buying CS4 might be a mistake until Adobe announces their free upgrade cutoff date is just not thinking things through very carefully.  Over the years, I have been very critical of Adobe.  But this one is clear.  Adobe gave all of the signs in advance.  Adobe has been consistent in recent releases about their being a cutoff date for free upgrades and its always sometime after the official announcement of the new release. Nothing about this policy should have surprised anyone.

                               

                              I can understand the poster's disappointment.  But I do not think it is unfair.  And it is certainly not unfair for future buyers who might read this post.

                              • 12. Re: Adobe's Upgrade Policy Unfair - Buyer Beware.
                                photobugphotobug Level 1

                                By "complete", I meant "not an upgrade".

                                 

                                You always have buy.com's guarentee:

                                 

                                ".. buyers can rely on our Buy.com Marketplace Guarantee Claim which, covers  the first $750 of every purchase ..."

                                 

                                I have purchased from Buy.com in the past and have never had any problems.

                                • 13. Re: Adobe's Upgrade Policy Unfair - Buyer Beware.
                                  photobugphotobug Level 1

                                  I don't get your car analogy. The economic models for hardware and  software are completely different. The manufacturing costs for the car  are huge; for software, minuscule.



                                  I am not singling out Adobe. This is an Adobe forum. It would be inappropriate to discuss my experience with Microsoft. And I have not disrespected anyone.

                                  I am not a professional; just a hobbyist so I cannot take your suggestion to do some work to pay for the new version.

                                  Your last remark is not worthy of a reply.
                                  • 14. Re: Adobe's Upgrade Policy Unfair - Buyer Beware - Not
                                    photobugphotobug Level 1

                                    I really don't understand the "sour grapes" reference (or the lottery one, for that matter). I like Premiere Pro and plan to continue to use it. I think Adobe is a great company. I just don't like the way their Customer Support handles upgrades. I never asked for a free upgrade. I would be ok with paying something towards the upgrade, just not the full $300.

                                    As I said in the original post, I am new to Adobe, having previously used Edition. When you say

                                          "But this one is clear.  Adobe gave all of the signs in advance."

                                    I must have missed it or am just not familiar with the site. I'm assuming you mean that they said somewhere (a press release perhaps) that CS5 would be released soon. Can you provide http links of these "signs"? Thanks.

                                    • 15. Re: Adobe's Upgrade Policy Unfair - Buyer Beware - Not
                                      DVDmike Level 1

                                      Do you really want to belabor this argument?  Months ago, adobe stated on their web site that CS5 would require 64 BIT os.  Then more recently, they posted videos on their site showing  the Mercury Playback Engine on CS5.  Then they also told everyone (and posted it on their site too I think) that they were going announce CS5 on such and such a date.  And they have been pretty steady with an 18 month release schedule the past few iterations.  And they have always had a cutoff date and their has never been a sliding scale for upgrade pricing based on when you first purchased your qualifying product.  Honestly, if you did not know any of these things, you did not do much (any?) research before purchasing the product.  We live in the internet age.  It would have been easy to ask in this forum or several others before your purchase if anyone knew what Adobe's upgrade policies were because you were considering buying CS4.  I am sure you would have got as many posts telling you to hold off for a few weeks on that post than you have her telling you that you are full of it.

                                       

                                      If you don't know what sour grapes are, it is an expression that we use in the US when someone thinks that they have been taken advantage of or treated unfairly but most others who are more objective and have nothing personally to gain/loose over the issue think that said person should simply upset at their own inadequacies.   http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/sour-grapes.html  I forget that this is an international forum.  Sorry for the US "expression".

                                       

                                      The fact is that your post says "unfair policy" and "buyer beware" right in the tidal.  These are pretty strong statements.  You did not need to beware because the same thing has been going on for years.  Adobe's policy has not changed much in this regard.  This is much more harse than I don;t like the fact that they don;t have a sliding scale for upgrades.  What you are saying in your subject is that you were duped or tricked.  this is much more harsh than saying  "I would be ok with paying something towards the upgrade, just not the full $300".

                                      • 16. Re: Adobe's Upgrade Policy Unfair - Buyer Beware - Not
                                        joshtownsend Level 2

                                        It's amazing how entitled people get when it comes to software. Like people don't realize Adobe has to pay their employees to come to work on these upgrades. If you bought CS4 you got what you paid for. Sorry you didn't notice or do research about when a new version was coming out and what Adobe's upgrade policy is.

                                         

                                        Also this 'well I'm just hobbyist' is getting old. So what? Does that make you special some how, give you a right to be treated differently than people who buy the software so they can feed their family? So called Hobbyists are starting to take business away from pro's for stuff like weddings because powerful software like this is becoming cheaper and cheaper and HD camera prices are dropping.

                                         

                                        Your lucky your were able to get an upgrade price on software that over 6 years old in the first place. Alot of companies wouldn't do that...yet you complain because you didn't bother to check when the newest version might be coming out.

                                        • 17. Re: Adobe's Upgrade Policy Unfair - Buyer Beware - Not
                                          DVDmike Level 1

                                          Per the "hobbyist" issue, Adobe Premiere Pro is geared to the professional, hence the name "PRO" right in the title.  Doesn't Adobe still make Premiere Elements?  So the fact that someone is a hobbyist and thinks that having a cutoff date is unfair and there should be a sliding scale is naive to professional software.

                                           

                                          You think that the Hobbyists are cutting into your video business, you should see what is happening to wedding photography!  Affording "nice" DSLR's is easy nowadays.  And people are hiring their friends who own nice cameras at cheap prices to shoot their weddings more and more.  Hobbyists who shoot "professionally" often do not have the know-how, skills, experience, or backup equipment to shoot a wedding properly.  They often do not carry insurance, collect sales taxes, pay the extra accounting fees, get a business license, etc.  And since they are doing it more for fun than to make a living, their prices are much lower to begin with.  Sooner or later we will be down to an elite group of professional wedding photographers (and videographers) and mostly hobbyist shooting weddings.  Once this happens, adobe will not be selling their products to large numbers of professionals and it will either cost a lot more or the features will be limited.  A $300 upgrade price every 18 months is peanuts to a working pro as long as their is fair competition in the marketplace.  I used to compete on price to shoot weddings.  But not any more.  The competitive price to shoot and edit a wedding video has gone down $500-$750 in my area.  Luckily, most consumers still hold some value for professional wedding photography and are willing to pay a decent fee for it.  But this fee for average wedding photographers is rapidly decreasing.

                                          • 18. Re: Adobe's Upgrade Policy Unfair - Buyer Beware - Not
                                            joshtownsend Level 2

                                            DVDMike I agree 100% percent. Well said....

                                             

                                            Premiere CS5 is the first version that deserves to called 'PRO' if you ask me. Lots of RED and DSLR shooters are stoked about the GPU acceleration.

                                            • 19. Re: Adobe's Upgrade Policy Unfair - Buyer Beware - Not
                                              wrfoster68

                                              Sorry to hear that DVDmike (cutting into your living) I do video and photography for my own personal enjoyment. Do not do weddings or the like, leave it to the ones like you who do it for a living, but I like powerful software too and I bought CS4 BECAUSE CS5 is being released. Software sellers trying to offload the older boxed version of the programs. Getting CS4 production suite for $700 full retail is nice and the fact that my favorite software on the Windows computer is not on the Mac for which I switched to (Pinnacle Studio) I will take this. I had a version of Premiere many years ago when I bought my DV500 capture card, but not trying to upgrade that. So you get to start playing with CS5 and I will take CS4, cool.  I also wanted premiere for Encore to do my Blu-ray disc as well.

                                               

                                              Some companies do the if you bought it between this and that date, but not all. If Adobe does not announce such a thing, then it is hard to call them unfair, it is just the way it is. They may have thought that is what you wanted and maybe could not run CS5.

                                              • 20. Re: Adobe's Upgrade Policy Unfair - Buyer Beware - Not
                                                the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                Some companies do the if you bought it between this and that date, but not all. If Adobe does not announce such a thing, then it is hard to call them unfair, it is just the way it is. They may have thought that is what you wanted and maybe could not run CS5.

                                                 

                                                Historically, Adobe has offered the new version of major programs to purchasers of the older version within 30 days prior to release. I can only speculate that similar will be offered with CS5, when CS4 was purchased. Whether it will be 30 days before official announcement, or before actual release will have to be announced by Adobe. We should all know soon.

                                                 

                                                Hunt

                                                • 21. Re: Adobe's Upgrade Policy Unfair - Buyer Beware.
                                                  Fighting Sticks Level 2

                                                  Adobe says no refund, boo hoo.  Are you legally aware of your rights as a comsumer.  Here in the fine country of Australia if I purchase something I'm not happy with then I am legally entitled to a refund.  Ask for the refund if you're told no, Aussies can then rock off to the government department called 'The Office of Fair Trading', they become very interested and want to know all the facts then they take over 'the case' and get your refund for you.  I love 'em.  If Adobe says no, I'd unadvise you unleash the hound (aka Office of Fair Trading or your own state equivalent).  They will get your money for you, no stress, no hassles.  Have a good day!

                                                  • 22. Re: Adobe's Upgrade Policy Unfair - Buyer Beware.
                                                    DVDmike Level 1

                                                    Sticks, very interesting reading about how things are done in Australia.  In the US, things are generally not so generous to the consumer.  Anything that I have posted in this forum's thread was based on what I know if US law.    I am NOT a lawyer, but in general one would have to file a lawsuit in civil court and prove cause to get their money back.  Each state and local municipality may have their own laws too.  If the transaction had elements of "fraud", this would certainly help a case against the offending party and could also lead to criminal charges filed by the state.  In this case, the individual who was harmed would not have to pay for their own attorney.  Transactions under a certain dollar value, such as a purchase of CS4 software, could be taken to "small claims court".  These courts are designed so that an individual may sue another individual without a lawyer and without taking as much time.  But these cases are usually between two individuals or small entities, not between an individual and a large entity such as Adobe.  Even in cases where a government entity does get involved without an individual filing a lawsuit, the time it would take to resolve the issue can be great, especially when one party is large enough to afford a team of lawyers.

                                                     

                                                    I personally do not think Adobe has done anything wrong here.  But I have not read and digested the End user agreement that is included with CS4 and must accept before installing the software.  These agreements are designed by teams of lawyers and almost no lay-persons such as myself can really understand them completely in the first place.  But I am assuming that they protect companies like Adobe fairly effectively against the one-off individual who may try to file a suite to get their money back.  But the person in this post was not even requesting his money back for a refund.  He wants an upgrade at a reduced price.  I'd be curious how this situation is handled in Australia. I guess that there he would request a refund for his CS4 purchase to fund a CS5 purchase?