6 Replies Latest reply on May 3, 2010 4:10 PM by Rick Gerard

    DV output doesn't seem quite right.

    merrick611

      Hi,

      I don't know why or what I am doing wrong but it seems that when I view my file that was rendered in CS4 (basic DV file 720x480 29.97) and reimport the clip into my editing program (Grass Valley Edius), the footage does not seem to be as pristine as the original DV footage. There is a "film like" look to the frame rate and there also appears to be a cut in overall resolution. I have all output settings to "best" and I tried playing with field, upper and lower, but no combination seems quite right. I know this program can handle a wide variety of formats so I can't believe that simple DV should be a challenge.  As an FYI, to eliminate all variables, I didnt apply any effects to the footage, just inserted a clip into the composition, and rendered it out.

       

      Any ideas how I can get my DV footage to look exactly like the original?

        • 1. Re: DV output doesn't seem quite right.
          Mylenium Most Valuable Participant
          Any ideas how I can get my DV footage to look exactly like the original?

           

          Make sure to also interpret it correctly when importing in AE! There's always two sides of the coin - in and out. Aside from that, I would not recommend rendering DV from AE. Since AE as a compositing program only offers limited optimizations for outputting specific compressed formats,  quality almost naturally is never the same as in programs that use compressed formats natively. You'd get much better results by using intermediate formats such as Quicktime with Animation or PNG compression and let Edius convert it to DV on import.

           

          Mylenium

          • 2. Re: DV output doesn't seem quite right.
            merrick611 Level 1

            Thank you for the reply. I did try your suggestion as exporting as  a PNG sequence and when re imported into Edius I have the same video degradation.

            I dont think I can import into AE any other way than the DV footage..(cant be converted from Edius)...

            So is there any other way I can maintain my DV quality when using AE or is this program incapable of maintaining the quality if the footage is to be used in another appllication?

            • 3. Re: DV output doesn't seem quite right.
              merrick611 Level 1

              As a follow up to my prior post, I did find a way in Canopus to convert the original DV file to an uncompressed RGB. I took the uncompressed file into AE, and then output as PNG sequence. Still, the results are not as good as the original DV footage. Incredibly disappointing. I am surprised that you don't hear more people complaining about this since I am sure DV is still widely used.

              • 4. Re: DV output doesn't seem quite right.
                Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

                merrick611 wrote:

                 

                As a follow up to my prior post, I did find a way in Canopus to convert the original DV file to an uncompressed RGB. I took the uncompressed file into AE, and then output as PNG sequence. Still, the results are not as good as the original DV footage. Incredibly disappointing. I am surprised that you don't hear more people complaining about this since I am sure DV is still widely used.

                 

                I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of DV as a compressed format - it can never look as good as the original. DV uses a very agressive compression that reduces color information and produces a lot of very visible artifacts. Whenever you compress it again, you apply another level of degeneration on top of the existing one. You can't have both - either you don't modify the source footage and allow the programs to work in bypass, re-using the original stream data or you modify the image content, based on the decompressed and reconstructed info, but in turn enforcing a completely new compression pass.

                 

                Mylenium

                • 5. Re: DV output doesn't seem quite right.
                  merrick611 Level 1

                  What you are saying makes complete sense, however the problem could be avoided if AE handled DV in a native way without having to recompress it . My son's $50 Pinnacle Studio can bring DV in and spit it out pristinely. But my $900 After Effects does not look as good. DV is one of the most widely used formats so its suprising why after all these iterations of the program, you would have to take a quality hit.

                   

                  When I tried the same experiement with HDV it looked much better. Do you know if AE handles HDV natively or does it compress that as well?

                  • 6. Re: DV output doesn't seem quite right.
                    Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    You're probably looking at a field issue. If you bring in DV you should separate fields, then re-introduce them on export. If nothing moves, and you don't scale anything, and you have legacy gamma checked, the files should be identical except for the re-compression artifacts. Haven't worked with DV for about 3 years now, but I used to do it all the time with excellent results.