19 Replies Latest reply on May 9, 2010 1:41 PM by DVDmike

    CS5 locks my PC constantly

    DVDmike Level 1

      I cannot even use the mouse or keyboard to shutdown when this happens.  I have to power down in order to reboot.  I can work for hours in Lightroom and Photoshop, but Pro will lock up the system in minutes or seconds.  This has happened on multiple projects, on both DV & DSLR and even just leaving the open new project dialog box open to go to the bathroom.  I'd think that it was my sytem that is unstable but there are no unexplained event log errors and so far no other programs are behaving this way.

       

      A task as simple of playing back a single clip with no effects causes this issue if I play enough clips.

       

      Since PPro has always been my bigest headache for stability, I built this new machine so that PPro CS5 would work.  It is a win7x64, 12gb, gtx-285, 980x cpu with standard bios setting, no overclocking.

       

      If anyone has any constructive ideas, please post them.  Right now, I am very discouraged.

       

      One interesting tidbit that I have found is that every time I open an existing project, it reconforms all of my footage's audio files, even after finishing, saving the project, and exiting cleanly.  Is this normal for CS5?

        • 1. Re: CS5 locks my PC constantly
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          The tips in this ARTICLE might be useful for gathering clues as to what is happening your computer at the time of the lock ups. There is usually a breadcrumb trail left behind, and Event Viewer might prove helpful.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: CS5 locks my PC constantly
            Wil Renczes Adobe Employee

            If the entire system is doing a hard lock, my first instincts are it's either:

             

            - processor overheating;

            - memory instability;

            - improper/old driver somewhere (typically audio or video drivers);

            - GPU card overheating.

            - motherboard related bios issue with system timings - check with your mobo vendor & make sure you have the latest.

             

            For the temperatures, you can install one of several utilities to monitor your system temps.  For the memory instability point, I had similar issues on my home built machine until I went into my bios and specifically dialed in my memory voltage to 1.65 volts (or whatever your particular memory is rated at, use that) - the auto setting wasn't good enough.

             

            Software doesn't generally cause machines to lock, unless it's a kernel driver related issue.  If the app was at fault, you'd have some kind of crash error message & it would quit out.  Unfortunately for Premiere, it pushes your system resources a lot harder than most applications (esp when it comes to multithreading), so it's more prone to smoking out instability issues than other applications...

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: CS5 locks my PC constantly
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              Several of the useful tools, that Wil mentions can be found in the thread linked in this ARTICLE. Thanks to Harm Millaard for those links.

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: CS5 locks my PC constantly
                DVDmike Level 1

                there are no event log errors that happen on or around the time when the system locks up.

                 

                Its definitely not processor over heating.  This is happening with all cores under 42C and with less than 3% cpu utilization.

                 

                Memory instability is a good possibility.  I will look further into the voltages.

                 

                I've got the most recent audio and video drivers installed.

                 

                GPU card overheating is a possibility.  But this happens with MPE GPU acceleration turned off (or on).  And if the GPU were overheating doing relatively little, then it would do so in photshop and lightroom with multiple monitors going.

                 

                I had the latest MB bios as of last week, but I can check again.

                 

                Again, why does CS5 conform all audio clips EVERY time the project is opened?  It even does this inside of media encoder when you select a PPRO sequence.  Couldn't this be a clue?

                 

                I've run 20 media encoders encoding the (most recent) sequence that locks up on me and they have all run fine.  I have exported for blu-ray and flash and to every drive on my system.  The cpu does get up to 99% during the encoding where inside of PPro when this happens, cpu is always less than 5%.  So if encoding is not stressing the system as much as PPro is, I don't understand what ppro could be doing that is so intense that a simple playback of a clip with no effects on it is pushing the limits of the system.  If the problem is system instability due to a hardware / mb issue, why does it only happen in PPro when media encoder uses ppro and appears to stress the system much more?

                • 5. Re: CS5 locks my PC constantly
                  the_wine_snob Level 9
                  Again, why does CS5 conform all audio clips EVERY time the project is opened?  It even does this inside of media encoder when you select a PPRO sequence.  Couldn't this be a clue?

                   

                  This should not be happening, but several users with CS4 experienced the same. In some cases, the Scratch Disks were on externals, usually USB, for some, they (or the Assets) were on networked drives. Some had moved the Assets around, or the Scratch Disk around. Still, for too many, there was never a reason found. May have been a few more causes, that I am just forgetting now.

                   

                  Again, it should NOT be happening, and it would be good to find out why, as it might also help some of those CS4 users.

                   

                  Though you probably have not used CS5 all that much, especially with the lock-ups, have you encountered any Project file corruption? Have you encountered any corrupted Assets, either inside of PrPro, or in other programs?

                   

                  As the PRPROJ files are basically XML databases with links to the various Assets, and sets of instructions as to what the program will do with them, upon Export, it would seem that either the links to the CFA & PEK files is being lost for some reason. As mentioned above, this can happen when those files are locked (like with Windows Indexing), moved, renamed, or otherwise unavailable. PrPro will regenerate those files, if it cannot access the first ones - regardless of why it cannot access them, or locate them. This is what you are seeing, but the WHY is a mystery, at least at this point.

                   

                  Unfortunately, other than mentioning some of the causes, plus the "unknown," I do not have anything useful. Since we are currently blessed with some Adobe presence here, maybe one of the folk, with inside knowledge, can comment. There might well be more Bug reports, than we saw here. Maybe Adobe knows of a potential cause, and can shed light on that - if so, I'll be glad to try and link some of those old threads to the answer.

                   

                  Good luck,

                   

                  Hunt

                   

                  PS - similar has happened to some users of PrElements. Do not recall if those were version specific, but would assume that they happened with PrE 7, or PrE 8, as I do not recall hearing of the issue in earlier version. PrPro is not alone in this behavior, though the causes might well be different.

                  • 6. Re: CS5 locks my PC constantly
                    the_wine_snob Level 9
                    If the problem is system instability due to a hardware / mb issue, why does it only happen in PPro when media encoder uses ppro and appears to stress the system much more?

                     

                    Well, PrPro (and most NLE's) will stress a system more than about any other program. However, AME does the same, so one should expect to see similar with either PrPro, or AME. PrPro interfaces more directly and closely with both the video and audio drivers, than most other programs. That is why, when one comments that the video driver is fine, because there are no other video issues in any player, etc. That is a false sense-of-security, as they never work so closely, as PrPro does. Not PS, AI, InDesign, etc. will tax the video side of things, like PrPro will.

                     

                    Now, you have already ruled out video and audio drivers, as you have the very latest from the mfgr's sites.

                     

                    I'm surprised that Event Viewer had zero, but have seen similar, so it is certainly not impossible, just not common. That has happened to me and all I can do is utter, "Bummer!" and move on to other utilities in hopes of finding a clue.

                     

                    Along the way, can you run Process Explorer (linked in Harm's article up-thread), in case something shows up there?

                     

                    Thanks, and good luck. Wish I had a magic bullet for you,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: CS5 locks my PC constantly
                      DVDmike Level 1

                      Thanks Bill.  So far, I have no corruption issues that I am aware of.  For the latest project, I have not changed any of the disks since creating the project.  I am really just today starting edit "real" footage.  Most of my other edits have just been testing CS5.  I have experienced two other issues like this that I have tracked down to external hardware.  One was my MOTU 896 FireWire audio device. I would get blue screen every time I turned it on.  It has been unplugged since.  I also got locking when I used a firewire DV device to feed to a ntsc monitor.  It has been unplugged ever since too.  And I am working on new projects which have not attempted to use the DV device.

                      • 8. Re: CS5 locks my PC constantly
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        I was afraid of that. Now, do not get me wrong, not having any corruption is a great thing, but it takes another thought off the table.

                         

                        You are not using externals. You are not using networked drives. Nothing else is showing an issue.

                         

                        I'm running out of ideas, but you do have some Adobe-folk working on it. If I can think of any other possible issues, I'll throw them out, so you can "shoot 'em down."

                         

                        I am worried that your lost CFA's & PEK's do fall into that "the case of the unexplained."

                         

                        Please let us know how the RAM tests go. I'm starting to grasp at straws here.

                         

                        Good luck,

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: CS5 locks my PC constantly
                          Wil Renczes Adobe Employee

                          RE: the audio reconforming, I'd categorize that as a separate issue.  I know one particular instance of this that I tripped across has to do with XMP, and I'm not sure that it was ever solved:  when an Adobe app imports media, it wants to inject it with XMP metadata.  If a file is somehow detected as invalid, we abstain from injecting this XMP data into the file.  So far, so good.

                           

                          Where things go wrong:  one of the things that we want to inject into the file is a notion of a unique ID.  If the injection fails, each time you re-open the file(s) in question, we notice that it doesn't have any XMP data.  Not a problem, we create a new one.  The catch?  The conformed audio that we generate around that file uses that unique ID as part of the mapping scheme.  Since it's a new XMP blob on each launch, the ID never matches, the app can't find conformed audio with a matching ID, so it generates new conformed audio.  Pain!

                           

                          I saw this in particular with wave files from a Tascam field recorder, where it was writing something slightly wrong in the wave file.  Not enough that the file was unusable, but enough to trigger the XMP safeguard & cause this scenario to happen.  Other scenarios where this could happen:  if the audio files are write protected.

                           

                          One thing you can attempt:  there's a setting in the prefs to turn off 'XMP on write', I think it's called.  I think that circumvents this problem.

                          • 10. Re: CS5 locks my PC constantly
                            Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Wil, it is fantastic to have you posting.  Another great mystery illuminated by the master.  No, not a "this is the full and final answer," but an answer based in authoritative information that makes sense and helps to guide troubleshooting options.  You and Dennis and others do a great job for adobe in nipping misunderstandings in the bud, and clarifying and admitting problems/issues when appropriate.  I've thought that and been too busy to post for days, so this is my quick bit of praise to you.  Pardon this being a bit OT....

                            • 11. Re: CS5 locks my PC constantly
                              DVDmike Level 1

                              I'll try disabling the XMP tomorrow.  Thanks for that tip.  My wedding thAt I was editing has about 4 hours worth of raw footage and it was getting old reconforming everything.

                               

                              In my current project, I just put all of my clips (19 min of 720p) into a new sequence, disabled the audio from playing, and hit the spacebar.  Within 5 seconds the system hung.  The CPU and system temp/voltage, etc monitors were visible on the other screen.  As is typical, little to no cpu usage, 2GB memory, all temps and voltages "normal"

                               

                              I rebooted and check the event log, there was the error about the CPU starting back up after a non-normal shutdown, but no messages for 2 hours before that.

                               

                              Now I am running media encoder on the same sequence, flash then 2 pass 264 blu ray encoding of the 19 minute sequence.  CPU runs at about 50% continually.  Again all temps and voltages the same, 7GB memory used showing in the task manager.  Encoding is fine w/o any lockups.  The flv took less than 8 minutes to encode and the blu ray has gone on for about 15 minutes without issue....

                              • 12. Re: CS5 locks my PC constantly
                                Wil Renczes Adobe Employee

                                Hmm, well, if it locks up all the time on playback, that's the trigger... that steers me to the graphics card / audio drivers / disk I/O.

                                 

                                I know you indicated that you had the latest audio drivers, but what are you using?  I saw that you had mentioned using a MOTU previously - what Asio drivers are you running with?  Are you using the default Premiere Pro WDM sound option, or something else?

                                 

                                And, regarding your drives - what are you playing off?  Is it a separate controller card running your media storage, or onboard?  Hardware raid or software stripe set, etc?

                                 

                                You might also want to try swapping your GPU into another PCIe slot, just in case... usually, there's two high speed slots these days...

                                 

                                (And thanks for the props, Stan. )

                                • 13. Re: CS5 locks my PC constantly
                                  DVDmike Level 1

                                  Its not just playback that triggers this error.  In fact, this morning I went into the preferences to find the XMP settings and while simply looking at the preference screen  it locked up.  I rebooted, went back into the pref screen and unchecked the xmp check boxes.  Then I restarted Ppro and the audio still conformed.  I waited until it was finished and saved the project again.  I closed Ppro again and restarted PPro and it locked up the PC again, even before I got to the open project screen.

                                   

                                  Again, no event log messages and no hardware issues in the device manager.

                                   

                                  I am using JBOD's and using the on board disc controller.  I am using on board audio.  Today, I will recheck all drivers and bios.

                                   

                                  I am using Ppro standard sound.  The Motu is unplugged and has been for this entire ordeal.

                                   

                                  Exchanging the GPU slot will take some time.

                                  • 14. Re: CS5 locks my PC constantly
                                    DVDmike Level 1

                                    There is reason to be optimistic now.  I had the latest drivers installed for everything related to the motherboard and the GPU.  But I reinstalled the audio drivers, thinking that when I had installed the MOTU it might have stepped on something with the realTek drivers.  So far, with the realtek drives reinstalled, everything has worked without locking up on two different projects, so far.  The audio conforming issue is still outstanding.

                                    • 15. Re: CS5 locks my PC constantly
                                      Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                                      DVDmike wrote:

                                      .

                                       

                                        The Motu is unplugged and has been for this entire ordeal.

                                       

                                      .

                                      How about removing the drivers for this unusual device.

                                      • 16. Re: CS5 locks my PC constantly
                                        DVDmike Level 1

                                        I have not had any lockups at all since I reinstalled the RealTek drivers. I have played back hours of footage without incident.  I will starting doing more advanced editing again soon.

                                         

                                        So I am not sure there is a pressing need to uninstall the Motu drivers at this time.  The Motu is not exactly an "unusual" device.  It may be uncommon for video professionals.  But its fairly common for audio professionals.  Many people use their firewire audio products to do high end audio capture direct to disk in the field.  I used to do this until I purchased my 24 track Alelis hard disk recorder.   The Alesis does not require a computer to run, so it is a bit more "portable", plus it allows for 24 tracks.  But the Motu products are widely used for this and for small studios as audio recording and playback devices.   I leave my motu  896 rack mounted and connected to my audio system for multi-track playback for mixing down to 5.1 or 2.0.  The RealTek also allows for multi-channel audio output, but it uses consumer mini plug connections, not xlr connections like professional audio gear uses.  I could buy adapters to go from stereo mini plugs to two XLR's, but those mini plugs always develop noise.

                                        • 17. Re: CS5 locks my PC constantly
                                          DVDmike Level 1

                                          I believe that reinstalling the audio drivers for the on-board audio resolved this issue.  I  would have hoped for an event log that would have identified this issue as this issue could have been almost anything.

                                           

                                          I have not had any lock-ups since.  So I am assumming that this issue is solved!    Thank you everyone for the assistance.

                                          • 18. Re: CS5 locks my PC constantly
                                            Wil Renczes Adobe Employee

                                            Nice. Glad to hear it's sorted out.

                                            • 19. Re: CS5 locks my PC constantly
                                              DVDmike Level 1

                                              Thank you for your persistence on this issue Will.