33 Replies Latest reply: May 16, 2010 8:14 PM by [scott] RSS

    Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?

    Tarzeck

      I've heard Illustrator's "not enough memory" alerts called a "bug" here and other places, and I'm not sure if it is or just a problem with 32bit apps.

       

      A few years back, I bought a MacPro and built the ram up to 19 gigs, thinking that would help some of my Illustrator "slowness" issues. I've since come to understand that I paid a lot of money for a good computer, but still use an app that isn't built to take full advantage of the computer processor, ram, or operating system.

       

      I'm using CS4, I use it for freelance work, and I'm constantly frustrated by its slowness or its outright stoppage when it accesses all of the little bit of memory its allowed to search for. (Common for me to work with intricate live traced art or detailed pieces with blends, transparency effects etc. Certainly no problem if I'm just working with simple filled shapes.)

       

      I know that Illustrator CS5 is still 32bit, and I guess I'm questioning if anyone has any knowledge at all of Adobe going under the hood and doing anything to improve its performance. I'm having a problem reaching for big Creative Suite upgrade money if its just for a few new features and the same old sluggishness.

       

      Thanks,

      Tarzeck

        • 1. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
          Monika Gause CommunityMVP

          You could download the demo and try your files and your personal workflow using it. Then you will see if the new version helps you to accomplish your goals faster and make your decision based on your own experience. People here don't know your files and your workflow. That's what demo software is for, after all.

          • 2. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
            Tarzeck Community Member

            Thanks for the reply, Skullmaker, and for the list of current reports concerning possible bugs. I'll hang on to it in case I take Monika's good suggestion and download a demo of the Illustrator app only, to consider the upgrade worthiness.

             

            I'm in total agreement though about not expecting any bug fixes and updaters. Those things stopped when they absorbed and tossed aside Freehand. Lack of competition tends to make one lazy I guess.

             

            Not looking forward to another couple of years working with software that was written for computers that I retired years ago.

             

            All the best,

            Tarzeck

            • 3. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
              CHMprepress Community Member

              If your using Illustrator alot it is wise not to go to CS5 but stay in CS4.

              I have read somewhere you wil have less RAM than you had in CS4 becourse it has to run in a 32bit eviroment.

               

              So if you need Photoshop alot than CS5 is good, for the rest I think you better stay in CS4.

              • 4. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                Wade_Zimmerman Community Member

                I have a test that is processing and memory intensive it takes exactly the same amount of time for both version to complete the task except Cs 5 redraws he screen faster. But still not to make much different.

                 

                You can try it yourself with the trial.version of CS 5

                 

                CS 3 and is slower at this and earlier versions of AI are much slower.

                 

                On my computer this takes 3 minutes with an internal RAID 0 as a scratch disk.It is not a dedicated scratch disk

                 

                Draw an 18 x 18 inch rectangle

                 

                Go to Object>Path>Split into Grid

                 

                then in the split into grid enter 100 for both columns and rows and leave everything else at the defaults

                 

                Now while everything is still selected go to Effect>Stylize>Drop Shadow leave the defaults

                 

                when you hit ok start timing.

                • 5. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                  Wade_Zimmerman Community Member

                  I agree about 64 bit being important to bring to Illustrator however it is more important that PPro has 64 bit first then After Effects and then Photoshop and then Illustrator and if it meant that PPro would not have it or AE would not have or Photoshop would not have it or it would be poorly implemented in any of these three then it was right to hold of on Illustator.

                   

                  My rationale is that these application have a good integration with Illustrator and if they did not have a healthy implementation then it would be poor for Illustrator as well. No you should know that Lightroom 2 is 64 bit. Which was released a while ago.

                   

                  Even though 64 bit is around for a while I believe 64 bit apps will only run on the Intel Macs with 10.5.x and 10.6.x so it would not have made two hill of beans to implement something that would no have worked previously.

                   

                  Also remember Apple often changes the support without notice which mean Apple could easily messed things up for Adobe while adapting this support.

                   

                  I agree 64 bit suport is worthwhile bu bit at a price.

                  • 6. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                    Skullmaker Community Member

                    Wade,

                     

                    That is your best excuse on behalf of Adobe?

                     

                    We have the 64-bit technology for years! YEARS!

                     

                    And you saying that Adobe have not used this technology for years because is part of the plan?

                    You must be joking! Seriously? Really?

                     

                    This is part of Adobe's plan?

                     

                     

                    So version CS6 will be 64-Bit native when we have something better.

                     

                    Are you defending Adobe or just making fun of Adobe?

                    • 7. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                      [scott] CommunityMVP

                      Illustrator is not multi-threaded for the most part, so it only ever uses 1 processor, and being 32bit.. it's stil limited in terms of RAM.

                       

                      I've crossed my fingers and wished for beefier performance for a while. Out of all the Adobe apps.. Illustrator is by far the slowest of the pack.

                      • 8. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                        Tarzeck Community Member

                        Well Wade, you prompted me to try that 18 inch square test on my machine, and with interesting results. AI CS4 with my configuration took three and a half minutes to complete the drop shadow effect. I still have an install of AI CS3 on my machine so I tried it there too. CS3 accomplished the same task in HALF the time!! Very disappointing! If I wasn't using CS4 features on a daily basis, I'd be tempted to work in CS3 again to see if there might be a noticeable difference in my normal workflow.

                         

                        Still my biggest concern is AI's inability to access any measurable amount of ram, and that won't change until it's rewritten as 64 bit. Seems obvious at at this point that CS5 will perform no better than earlier versions, and the few newer features don't appear to be "must have" features for my personal work.

                         

                        I'll stop short of Adobe hate speech, but I'm not making any excuses for them either. I think they should be offering more than this for that hefty upgrade fee, and I still think we would have seen a better upgrade if there were some heathy competition out there.

                         

                        Thanks much for your feedback.

                         

                        Tarzeck

                        • 9. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                          Tarzeck Community Member

                          Yeah, that's pretty much the bottom line, Scott, and those few sentences pretty much say all that needs to be said about this thread, while at the same time condemning us AI users to a few more years of sub-par performance.

                           

                          Woe is us!

                           

                          Tarzeck

                          • 10. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                            Wade_Zimmerman Community Member

                            Tarzeck wrote:

                             

                            Well Wade, you prompted me to try that 18 inch square test on my machine, and with interesting results. AI CS4 with my configuration took three and a half minutes to complete the drop shadow effect. I still have an install of AI CS3 on my machine so I tried it there too. CS3 accomplished the same task in HALF the time!! Very disappointing! If I wasn't using CS4 features on a daily basis, I'd be tempted to work in CS3 again to see if there might be a noticeable difference in my normal workflow.

                             


                            In CS 3 it takes me 4 minutes and 15 secs on my Mac Pro with CS 4 and 5 it takes 3 minutes no one I know can do it faster on a G5 or windows

                            based computer in CS 3 than with CS 4.

                             

                            How long did it take you and what system are you using, what model desktop??

                            • 11. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                              Wade_Zimmerman Community Member

                               

                               

                              I've crossed my fingers and wished for beefier performance for a while. Out of all the Adobe apps.. Illustrator is by far the slowest of the pack.

                              But you tell us you are on the external prerelease, have you ever brought the subject up or fight to have performance improved?

                               

                              Crossing your fingers is good thing, speaking up and backing other prerelease testers who fought for it might be even better!

                              • 12. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                                Tarzeck Community Member

                                To answer your hardware question, Wade...

                                I'm using a MacPro 1,1 with 2 dual-core 3 GHz processors, and 19 gigs RAM.

                                 

                                And I have to amend my earlier test result. After thinking about the wide time difference, I realized I didn't check the raster effects setting of the new window I opened in CS3, so it may not have been an even test. I have it set higher by default recently in CS4

                                 

                                The second test makes more sense.

                                 

                                This time both new windows were CMYK files and raster effects set at the lower 72 dpi setting. Your drop shadow test gave these results...

                                 

                                CS3 complete in 95 seconds

                                CS4 complete in 85 seconds

                                 

                                With raster effects set at the higher end (300 dpi) both AI versions will take 3 1/2 minutes or a bit longer.

                                 

                                Sorry about the weird results of that first not so equal test.

                                 

                                Tarzeck

                                 

                                ==============

                                In CS 3 it takes me 4 minutes and 15 secs on my Mac Pro with CS 4 and 5 it takes 3 minutes no one I know can do it faster on a G5 or windows

                                based computer in CS 3 than with CS 4.

                                 

                                How long did it take you and what system are you using, what model desktop??

                                • 13. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                                  Wade_Zimmerman Community Member

                                  I have the raster effects set at 300 ppi and the Internal RAID 0 would make up for the difference.

                                   

                                  and of course the 72 ppi would be a different matter but CS 3 was faster than CS 2 though most do not seem to think so and if you tried this test in v10
                                  then I would guess the results would surprise everyone.

                                   

                                  I tested this carefully and I am experienced at testing software not for Adobe but others and the first thing one tests is performance and stability so the test has to be something that can bring both the software and system to a halt if there is anything wrong. This test will do it with Illustrator.

                                   

                                  You are running a very well configured workstation. A newer Mac can do better with Multi processing though yours can do excllent as well.

                                   

                                  CS 3 is sensitive to font cache problems CS 4 is even more so the seems like a limitation but it is better to know than having one of those files you can't open in the future all of a sudden. If you know what I mean.

                                   

                                  Anyway I am pleased to know that we can compare results in the future it could narrow things down a bit.

                                   

                                  Have a great day.

                                  • 14. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                                    [scott] CommunityMVP

                                    Wade_Zimmerman wrote:

                                    But you tell us you are on the external prerelease....

                                     

                                    I've never said any such thing. The most I've stated is that I was lucky enough to have a late beta version.

                                     

                                    If I were privy to some sort of inside connection any discussion about it would be inappropriate.

                                    • 15. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                                      Wade_Zimmerman Community Member

                                      I apologize for misreading your posts of course you are correct!

                                      • 16. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                                        Skullmaker Community Member

                                        Tarzeck,

                                         

                                        Check this test of uses of memory in CS5:

                                        http://forums.adobe.com/message/2811282#2811282

                                        • 17. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                                          Wade_Zimmerman Community Member

                                          ^4 bit, good idea, I have the CS 5 master collection but I do have to wait for my 64 bit plug ins to arrive if I wish to use them on CS 5.

                                           

                                          Perhaps this is not as simple as it appears to be.

                                           

                                          What do you think Tarzeck,would you do what some users of CS 5 Photoshop do blame Adobe because the plug ins are not ready and may not be until
                                          CS 6.

                                           

                                          So what do you think? How would you handle this if you were Adobe?

                                          • 18. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                                            Tarzeck Community Member

                                            Thanks, Skullmaker, for the link to the Illustrator CS5 memory bug message. That doesn't come as a big surprise since CS4 has similar behavior. I don't have to watch the Activity Monitor to know that Illustrator is getting more sluggish after some hours of opening and closing larger files. When it does, I know it's time for a shut-down and re-launch. I guess he's right that there's not much else to do than keep restarting at various points. Otherwise we'll get old waiting for Adobe to address the issue.

                                             

                                            Makes me re-think trying the demo version of CS5. Just may not be time well spent?

                                             

                                            And you bring up an interesting point Wade. Kind of hard to blame Adobe for not making a 64 bit app on one hand, then blame them again on the other hand for making a 64 bit app and rendering my plug-ins useless!?!?

                                             

                                            I'm in that boat too in terms of Photoshop plug-ins, and another reason not to immediately jump into the new Creative Suite. I use the full suite of Nik Software plug-ins and a few others. None are 64 bit ready yet but they "claim" to be working on it. I suppose in a perfect world, Adobe would supply all plug-in creators with the necessary info and software to develop updated plug-ins to resease in concert with the new Creative Suite. That perfect world would also require plug-in developers to drop everthing and re-write their apps in the necessary time frame. But it's a far from perfect world.

                                             

                                            Good luck to us all.

                                             

                                            Tarzeck

                                            • 19. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                                              davidmacy Adobe Employee

                                              CS5 can use up to 4GB RAM on Mac. Earlier versions could only use 2GB.

                                              • 20. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                                                Tarzeck Community Member

                                                I can somewhat agree with CS4 only accessing 2 gigs of RAM on the Mac since that has been my own experience. Any time I've gone to the Activity Monitor to see how much RAM is being accessed, Illustrator CS4 eats up 2 gigs and stops there.

                                                 

                                                Are you sure about CS5 accessing 4 gigs? Wonder how that difference came about? And if somebody actually did something to allow Illustrator to access more memory, why stop at 4 gigs? I suppose that still has to do with 32 bit limitations? Odd.

                                                 

                                                And I had all but talked myself out of downloading the CS5 demo,.. but now... ?????????

                                                 

                                                Tarzeck

                                                 

                                                =============

                                                 

                                                 

                                                > CS5 can use up to 4GB RAM on Mac. Earlier versions could only use 2GB.

                                                • 21. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                                                  davidmacy Adobe Employee

                                                  Yes, CS5 can use up to 4GB on Mac because of changes we made to make better use of OS-X memory management.

                                                  For details, see:

                                                  http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Performance/Conceptual/ManagingMemory /Articles/AboutMemory.html

                                                  • 22. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                                                    Wade_Zimmerman Community Member

                                                    Originally I thought for some reason CS 5 was 64 bt because it was snappier than CS 4 which ran well for me.

                                                     

                                                    Perhaps this boost in performance is the ticket for that observation.

                                                     

                                                    CS 5 has some great tools as well and it is sad that users who cannot or unwilling to try it are dissing it without andy first hand advise.

                                                    It is very sad that anyone would do this and wonder what could possibly motivate them?

                                                    However I predict that Adobe Illustrator CS 5 will see an increase in users as will the Suites in general.

                                                     

                                                    I think all this negative stuff from those who do not know will peak everyone's interest and they will try it and find hey this works great on my computer and they won't look back.

                                                     

                                                    And I am impressed on how much influence Illustrator has had on InDesign which now also has multiple page sizes in one document just like Illustrator.

                                                     

                                                    Thanks David for the link.

                                                     

                                                    update: this means more RAM the better as has been suggested many ties here on the forum for users who think 2GB or 4 GB is more than enough since users can install now up 32GB on a Mac then it makes sense to upgrade.

                                                     

                                                    There is a certain user on this thread that might benefit from this possibility. And this is a very good reason for them to upgrade.

                                                    • 23. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                                                      Wade_Zimmerman Community Member

                                                      Tarzeck wrote:

                                                       

                                                      And I had all but talked myself out of downloading the CS5 demo,.. but now... ?????????

                                                       

                                                      Tarzeck

                                                       

                                                      I think you should download it one of the improvements I like most is that I can now copy an object to the clipboard and the paste in the same position on ten other boards with one command or if I wan to paste it in the same position on just one.

                                                       

                                                      Of course you really should go with your own instincts.

                                                      • 24. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                                                        Skullmaker Community Member

                                                        Sometimes I found my self limited by Illustrator because I need to use more memory. sometimes I have to do a project in parts. Then putting all together in one document. However, the slow speed of the software is the most difficult part to accept (time=money).

                                                         

                                                        When you said:

                                                        davidmacy wrote:

                                                         

                                                        Yes, CS5 can use up to 4GB on Mac because of changes we made to make better use of OS-X memory management.

                                                        It means that you are part of Illustrator team? If so, can you tell me why CS5 is not 64-bit?

                                                        • 25. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                                                          davidmacy Adobe Employee

                                                          Skullmaker,

                                                          Yes I am the Product Manager for Illustrator. I will answer your question, but I would appreciate it if you would change your tone on this forum. I understand that you are frustrated about bugs that you would like to see fixed, but what I have seen is that people come to the forum looking for advice and help and you give answers like "nobody at Adobe is competent enough" or "Adobe doesn't care". If you answer my response with flames, I will not respond to you in the future.

                                                           

                                                          Porting a big product like Illustrator or Photoshop to 64-bit is a huge undertaking. The Photoshop team had to do it in two releases - CS4 was 64-bit for Windows and now CS5 is 64-bit for Mac. Adobe's video production products (After Effects, Premiere Pro, etc.) are also now 64-bit. For these products, 64-but is a huge benefit because it is very common for our customers to need access to the extra RAM for hi-def video and hi-res photos. In addition to the code that is unique to each application, Adobe makes use of a lot of shared code and shared libraries that are developed by other teams who deliver the libraries to the "point products". Each of these point products is a client for the shared component teams, and those teams can't always give full support to every product at the same time. This means that we have to make prioritization choices. The benefit of 64-bit to Photoshop, After Effects and Premiere Pro is much greater than it would be to Illustrator, so the decision to tackle those first was obvious. 64-bit is on the roadmap for Illustrator, but in the meantime, I think that we have delivered a lot of value in the way of productivity enhancements as well as bug fixes and other new features in Illustrator CS5.

                                                          • 27. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                                                            Skullmaker Community Member

                                                            Hello David,

                                                             

                                                            Thank you for your respond. I will not respond to you with flames (I am a man of my word). I have express several times that Adobe does not care because no one from Adobe was here to help us. For me you are the first from Adobe to helps us in this Illustrator forum. That fact alone changes things for me.

                                                             

                                                            Now that you have explained why Illustrator is not 64-bit, I get it. Now I know I have to wait for the next version to buy it. Thank you for the information.

                                                             

                                                            My only concern is that Adobe have not released an update or patch for a long time to fix the bugs. I can understand not all of them can be fix at once nor each program version is perfect, but I felt cheated when CS3 was left with critical bugs and no updates. I am afraid that if a buy a new version that version could end up as CS3 with lost of critical bugs and no updates. Is Adobe planning to start providing illustrator updates again?

                                                            • 28. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                                                              Wade_Zimmerman Community Member

                                                              Skullmaker wrote:

                                                               

                                                              I have express several times that Adobe does not care because no one from Adobe was here to help us. For me you are the first from Adobe to helps us in this Illustrator forum. That fact alone changes things for me.

                                                              No offense Hans I actually like you and love the fact that you are proficient Illustrator user, but this may have passed you by in the past and that can easily happen on the web and especially on a forum. It was I believe pointed out the the Adobe Team members maybe extremely busy during the development and testing stages of a new version and are less likely to look in on the user to user forum.

                                                               

                                                              I admit this sometimes gets away with all the inquiries and response made and some moments that are not reflective of an individuals true self on different circumstances. We all do so I am not lecturing here since I am not isn such a position to do so.

                                                               

                                                              I still think you should download the trail version and give it spin around the block.

                                                               

                                                              Not so much as to convince you that this s a good version or you should upgrade but I personally would be interested in knowing your assessment of the new features. It is a big download so it might not be practical but if you have the time, i  love most of it but not all of it and curious if other users agree with me.

                                                               

                                                              And I am just very curious about it I have no other agenda.

                                                              • 29. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                                                                davidmacy Adobe Employee

                                                                Skullmaker,

                                                                I will admit that the Illustrator team has been very hesitant to do dot releases in the past few years. This is because a) the team has not had a very efficient process for building and testing dot releases while still trying to work toward the next major version, the cost of any dot release has been very high and b) our updater statistics have shown that a fairly small percentage of customers download and install updates.

                                                                 

                                                                We have done a lot of work to address the first issue and we are now much more prepared to make small fixes and release dot updates without derailing the rest of our development, so I think that you will see a different approach with CS5. What you can do to help in this effort is to identify the really important things that impact many customers and absolutely need to be fixed and differentiate those from some of the smaller annoyances that don't really impact day to day work.

                                                                 

                                                                Btw, we did two worldwide updates for CS3 (13.0.1 and 13.0.2) and one for Japan only (13.0.3 which fixed a crashing problem related to use of composite fonts). CS4 has not had any fixes released as updates, but we have posted on Adobe.com updates to some individual plugins (ex: we posted the Crop Marks plugin to restore the feature that was previously in CS3.

                                                                • 30. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                                                                  Skullmaker Community Member

                                                                  Thank you David for your respond. Since you said I will see a different approach with CS5, I will stop all my remarks and opinions. I cannot argue when people work or try to make something better (even if I think more work is need it) I will take your statement in good faith.

                                                                   

                                                                  I will be patient and wait. As for me I will only provide useful solutions to this forum and I will relay your message to users having the same concerns like me.

                                                                   

                                                                  I will be more than happy to help Adobe to identify bugs that are critical, down to annoying, while prioritizing the real importance of fixing them. Do you think will be a problem if I install CS5 Trail with CS3 already in the computer?

                                                                   

                                                                  I want to thank you for addressing my concerns and taking the time to talk to me. Thank you David!

                                                                  • 31. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                                                                    Wade_Zimmerman Community Member

                                                                    At one tie I had Cs 3 and CS 5 on my computer on a different boot drive than CS 4 and all worked fine I now have CS 4 and CS 5 installed and no problems that I can see though yes there is two minor bugs but though they are minor they have to be fix and I have a feeling they will be.

                                                                     

                                                                    I pretty certain you will be fine installing the trial. I am not speaking for David who is far more knowledgeable than any of us.

                                                                     

                                                                    I was actually thinking of giving you my extra license of CS 4 but unfortunately it is a North American copy, I will probably donate it to a school like my alma madder.

                                                                    • 32. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                                                                      Tarzeck Community Member

                                                                      Taking a minute to say thanks for chiming in David. I posted to this forum hoping that some of the information shared here came directly from the horse's mouth, so good to see you and anyone else at Adobe involved.

                                                                       

                                                                      I do plan to give CS5 a try as soon as my current projects allow me a sliver of free time. Performance has become key to me at this point rather than features. I hope boosting the Real Memory Access to 4 gigs helps a bit, but in a 32 bit world that will probably be a band-aid at best.

                                                                       

                                                                      That's where the frustration lies and it seems you grasp it. The same day I bought my first Mac in the early 90s, I bought the Adobe apps as well. I've stayed with both through numerous upgrades. In recent years, Illustrator has become my app of choice, and my tool for income. Unfortunately as my Macs evolve and become ever faster and more efficient, Illustrator seems to be running in place. I've welcomed every great new feature, but I've also prayed for some "under the hood" development so I would spend less time watching progress bars or restarting when the app becomes weary and sluggish.

                                                                       

                                                                      I admit to some angst, realizing that another upgrade has come and gone, meaning it's still a long road ahead with that wide gap between computer and app.

                                                                       

                                                                      I'll try to get back here and post once I do test drive CS5.

                                                                       

                                                                      Thanks again,

                                                                      Tarzeck

                                                                      • 33. Re: Will CS5 have the same memory issues as past versions?
                                                                        [scott] CommunityMVP

                                                                        I can say that AICS5 is perceptually more proficient. It's noticeably more responsive in some areas. While it's still nowhere near as fast as other Adobe apps, AICS5 is much quicker with many operations here.