29 Replies Latest reply on May 14, 2010 8:36 AM by zoo imaging

    ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?

    souki83

      Anyone else noticing a definite lag when using various ACR sliders. Definitely something I'm not seeing in ACR 5.7. I'm running OS X on a 2.66 GHz Intel Core 2 Cuo w/ 4 GB of RAM. Raw images are NEF file from a Nikon D300s.

       

      One thing I've noticed is that when ACR is not running in a maximized window, then the lag is not as bad.

       

      This is a "dot 0" release and I understand that the software might not be optimal still, but I thought I'd ask this group first and see if it's something others have also noticed.

        • 1. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
          Yammer Level 4

          Yes, I am too. There's a definite stutter before the sliders update the preview.

          Windows XP, Core2Duo 2.6GHz, 3.5GB 1066MHz RAM, nVidia 9800GT.

           

          I'm shortly making the jump to 64 bit, to see if I can take advantage of the new-ish computer. I'll report back if it's faster/smoother.

          • 2. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
            RASouthworth Level 3

            Don't get your hopes up wrt 64 bit, Bridge/ACR run in 32 bit mode.  More to the point, on  my i7 quad core W7 64 bit system there is a definite hitch when moving the sliders in CS5 and none in CS4.  I hadn't noticed the delay until this thread began, it's short and doesn't really impact workflow but it is a bit curious.  Perhaps somebody from Adobe will comment.

             

            Richard Southworth

            • 3. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
              Yammer Level 4

              This is so frustrating. I used to build PC systems, up until about 12 years ago. I built hundreds, and my speciality was tuning. Nowadays, I'm years behind, although the same principles apply. Whenever I ask for advice and information, I get a different story. It was always the same though, some people knew their stuff, and some people were what I called "magazine readers" (people who got their information second hand), and should have kept their opinions to themselves.

               

              I was advised to go for Windows 7 64 bit, as it t, as everyone else seems to be running Vista/7 nowadays and takes advantage of the newer 64-bit architecture and current motherboards. I got the feeling that XP was possibly becoming the weakest link, as some of the software I use seems to run quite slowly for the platform I use. I've done all the standard tweak you can do to an XP setup, and tackled all the BIOS settings I understand.

               

              Sorry, this isn't very on-topic. I know that new versions of software often bring new slowness to your computer, I just can't help thinking things should be faster.

              • 4. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                denniswcr-khpn4m

                I am running Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit with 8GB of RAM on an AMD Athalon64 dual core ASUS motherboard.  I experience the same problem with lagging slider response  in ACR 6 with CS5.

                • 5. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                  Yammer Level 4

                  Just an observation: the lag seems to be less, the more zoomed-in you are. Screen updates are longest, the more image you see, which, I suppose, makes sense, although still longer than in previous versions.

                   

                  BTW running on Windows 7 Pro 64-bit now. And things don't seem to be any faster.

                  • 6. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                    dorin_nicolaescu Level 5

                    What if you set NR and sharpening to 0? Is it getting faster?

                    • 7. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                      Yammer Level 4

                      MUCH faster!

                       

                      It seems to be the new noise reduction that is slowing it down. Any slower and it'll be like using Capture NX.

                      • 8. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                        dorin_nicolaescu Level 5

                        And since most modern cameras don't need NR at low ISOs, or even more, the default 25 chroma NR just kills subtle color detail for no reason — set your default NR to 0 and apply as the last stage in adjustment, if needed. That should solve the issue in many (most?) cases.

                        • 9. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                          Yammer Level 4

                          That's a shame.

                           

                          I've always felt that my D300 needed a bit of noise reduction, despite what all the reviewers said about its noise performance.

                           

                          Applying noise reduction as a last step is a bit of a clumsy workaround, in my opinion. I found that values of 10-20 on Luminance and Colour noise reduction looked good in most photos, and work well as defaults.

                           

                          I suspect that the problem is becoming more apparent with the new full less-than-100% preview. Previously, things like noise reduction etc wouldn't be rendered on a <100% view, and this would make it faster.

                           

                          Can anyone from Adobe confirm this is the reason? And, if so, any chance of a setting to switch it off, please?

                          • 10. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                            RASouthworth Level 3

                            On my system it's not the color control that slows down slider response, only the luminance.  I had it set to a default of 20, and when reduced to zero there is no significant slider delay even though color nr remains at 25.  IMO the nr process is much improved, and having the luminance set to 20 was convenient, had little or no effect on low iso images and became more aggressive as iso increased.

                             

                            I believe Adobe received complaints about not displaying the noise reduction effect at less than 100% view, so it's impossible to please everybody.  And another switch would probably add to the confusion.  I'm happy with the present situation, given we understand what caused the slider delay.

                             

                            Richard Southworth

                            • 11. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                              Yammer Level 4

                              The luminance slider has by far the greatest effect on my system. The sharpening and colour NR have lesser but significant effects too.

                               

                              If it was easy to implement, I don't see how an extra switch would cause confusion. Something like "Preview Detail tab settings at under 100% zoom" (checked by default) would be fairly self-explanatory, I think.

                              • 12. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                                RASouthworth Level 3

                                You can make your own "switch" - create a couple of presets that only operate on nr (or include sharpening if you wish), NR Off and NR On.  Only requires two mouse clicks, select the flyout menu, slide down to Apply Preset, and select one or the other of the aforementioned presets.  It's quick and one doesn't have to move off of the current operation.

                                 

                                Richard Southworth

                                • 13. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                                  Yammer Level 4

                                  True, although it's a bit more fiddly than just 2 clicks.

                                   

                                  The only problem with this approach is remembering to turn it back on afterwards! )

                                  • 14. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                                    RASouthworth Level 3

                                    At the risk of being a "dog with a bone", I want to make sure I've communicated ok, since I don't see much fiddly.  I click on the (almost hidden) flyout menu, slide down to Apply Preset, and immediately a secondary menu pops up with the preset choices.  Slide over to the desired preset and click again.  All occurs without losing ones place in the adjustments.

                                     

                                    Which ever mode one wants for the default can be incorporated in the Camera Raw Default, so that at least you don't have to remember to turn it off (or on) image to image.

                                     

                                    Ok, enough, now let's see what the ACR team decides to do about the issue long term.

                                     

                                    Richard Southworth

                                    • 15. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                                      Yammer Level 4

                                      Click, down, hover, sideways, down click, to be precise. Or, alternatively: Ctrl-Alt-9, click, Ctrl-Alt-X. Assuming you remember, that is.

                                       

                                      As an aside, the preview/thumbnail generation seems slower now too. Presumably, the whole rendering process takes longer now, when images include non-zero Luminance NR by default.

                                       

                                      I've now changed Luminance to 0 in my defaults. Seems to be the best workaround. I'll reserve non-zero for shortlisted images only.

                                      • 16. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                                        zoo imaging

                                        I'm experiencing this too (on Vista 64) , and I disagree with whoever said it doesn't affect the wotkflow much.

                                        As someone who does most of their core editing in RAW (1000+ images/month) , this will have a massive impact on my workflow , greatly out-weighing any efficiency advantage the tweaks in Photoshop might have made.

                                        Every image I process gets 20-30+ slider tweaks in RAW , how many images will benefit from the new tools functions in Photoshop ? Only the odd one.

                                         

                                        The sliders now have a lag of between 1-2 seconds - rendering is much slower compared to 'instant' in CS4's RAW. If they don't work in 'real time' they're no use to me and I'll be asking for refund later today.

                                         

                                        It's no quicker with NR / SHARP set to zero either.

                                         

                                        My advice is for all of you to get refunds now , and make them sort it out - I'm sure you'll find it intolerrable soon enough ....

                                         

                                        Simon.

                                        • 17. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                                          RASouthworth Level 3

                                          I'm the one who made the workflow comment;  I should have been more specific, doesn't affect my workflow significantly because it's only a few tenths of a second on my system, and decreases to near zero with Luminance minimized in the Detail section.

                                           

                                          Since your system does not behave like the others in this thread it appears there is another problem, rather than just give up on CS5 you could share the specifics of your system and perhaps receive some aid from forum members.

                                           

                                          Richard Southworth

                                          • 18. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                                            Yammer Level 4

                                            I've just done some rough test measurements, doing the thousand-and-one counting method.

                                             

                                            Nikon D300 (12MP) NEF, 1920x1200 monitor, ACR full-screen:

                                            Fit in view: preview update without NR is 0.5 seconds, with NR is 0.7 seconds.

                                            100% zoom: preview update without NR is 0.6 seconds, with NR is 1.1 seconds.

                                            400% zoom: preview update without NR is 0.4 seconds, with NR is 0.5 seconds.

                                             

                                            Edit: for some reason the updates seem slower if you drag the slider gradually.

                                             

                                            Core 2 Duo 2.67GHz, 4GB RAM, nVidia 9800GT 0.5GB RAM, Windows 7 64-bit. 18 months old.

                                            • 19. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                                              Yammer Level 4

                                              Check out 6.1 RC. It's quite a lot faster.

                                              • 20. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                                                zoo imaging Level 1

                                                Cheers for the input.

                                                 

                                                Is that a Browser ?

                                                 

                                                Simon.

                                                • 21. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                                                  Yammer Level 4

                                                  > Is that a Browser ?

                                                   

                                                  You've lost me. Is what a browser?

                                                  • 22. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                                                    souki83 Level 1

                                                    As the OP, I can say that 6.1 fixed the 'lag' I had noticed with 6.0. Sliders are now much more responsive. Thanks Adobe.

                                                    • 23. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                                                      zoo imaging Level 1

                                                      What is "RC 6.1" then ?

                                                       

                                                      * I meant 6.1 RC of course !!

                                                      cheers.

                                                      • 24. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                                                        Jeff Schewe Level 5

                                                        zoo imaging wrote:

                                                         

                                                        What is "RC 6.1" then ?

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        Seriously?

                                                         

                                                        Really?

                                                         

                                                        Oih....

                                                        • 25. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                                                          Yammer Level 4

                                                          It's a nearly finished version of Camera Raw 6.1, available on the labs website:

                                                          http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Camera_Raw_6.1

                                                          • 26. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                                                            zoo imaging Level 1

                                                            Thanks , that was real helpful.

                                                             

                                                            And there's no mention of it in the original post.

                                                            • 27. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                                                              zoo imaging Level 1

                                                              Cheers Yammer , appreciate the help.

                                                               

                                                              I'll download now and hopefully this will fix mine too.

                                                               

                                                              All the best ,

                                                              Simon.

                                                              • 28. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                                                                Yammer Level 4

                                                                Phew. Swings and roundabouts.

                                                                 

                                                                I've been playing with 6.1RC just now, and whilst there's a definite response improvement on the Basic sliders, this all goes to pot when you start playing with the new Lens Correction settings.

                                                                 

                                                                I've been playing with a few architectural shots I took last week, and once I introduce automatic lens corrections, preview updates get slower again. Things like fine-tuning chromatic aberration and perspective correction make you wait a whole second, which isn't much good for feedback.

                                                                 

                                                                It's great that these much-requested tools are at last being provided due to popular demand, but one of the biggest selling-points (for me) of Camera Raw is its responsiveness compared with the competition, and sticky sliders make fine tuning slow and cumbersome.

                                                                 

                                                                I've also noticed that Bridge thumbnails are taking about 10 seconds each to refresh now, whereas before it was one or two.

                                                                • 29. Re: ACR 6.0 -- Slow sliders?
                                                                  zoo imaging Level 1

                                                                  I haven't used Lens Correction yet , just had a look = WOW didn't know that

                                                                  was there !

                                                                   

                                                                  6.1 is definately better for slider response , but still not as 'dead-on' as

                                                                  previously. Need to work a big batch later to see if it's live-able with as

                                                                  is ...

                                                                  Dragging an image around at 100% is still 'sticky' my end ....  (ooh err

                                                                  missus !)

                                                                  If it would zoom to the point of click rather than centre all the time ,

                                                                  this wouldn't be such a problem.

                                                                   

                                                                  I've found Bridge can be really slow too , but variably so and including the

                                                                  previous version.

                                                                  These days my RAW files are 25+ mb , and some monthly folders have 2000+

                                                                  images , so I do put it under a bit of strain from time to time ! (not to

                                                                  mention folders of Alamy-bound 100mb TIFF's).

                                                                   

                                                                  Re tools - I really wish they'd give us 'quick selection' and 'lassoo' in

                                                                  ACR instead of what I consider the fairly rubbish 'Adjustment Brush'. It

                                                                  surely couldn't be that difficult to integrate since they already exist !

                                                                  I find it painful sometimes to look at all that expanse of space at the top

                                                                  of the screen waiting for more tool icons ...

                                                                  And while I'm here (in case Adobe are listening in) , they could integrate

                                                                  the 'Tone Curve' TAB into the main one , and even merge the 'Colours' and

                                                                  'Split Toning' TABS , and the 'fx' / 'lens corr.' too !

                                                                  Could maybe be made customisable at least ?

                                                                  That would save a bit of tab clicking ...

                                                                   

                                                                  Anyhow , I'll give 6.1 some more testing and see if Adobe come up with

                                                                  something else , they've been quick with 6.1 - even if there was no mention

                                                                  of it on their main site !

                                                                  FYI : I've set new 'defaults' to apply no sharpening or NR.  (xcept +16

                                                                  Colour NR {no detail} as it seems to be what's needed for my average image).

                                                                  I usually always remove sharpening in RAW anyway , so it was about time I

                                                                  re-defined the default !!

                                                                   

                                                                  Simon.