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1. Re: Please help me duplicate this..
Wild_Duck May 11, 2010 7:12 AM (in response to lou4uandme)I know nothing about soundtrack recording, but that looks like audio recorded or passing through some device that is running at a 32kHz sampling rate. Where did that file come from, and what are the prameters shown for the audio and video?
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2. Re: Please help me duplicate this..
lou4uandme May 11, 2010 8:48 AM (in response to Wild_Duck)well, I droped the video onto audition, and it automatically extracted the audio. The video is a ripped copy of the dvd.
Basically I was studying any patterns that were common in all tv shows. This was the most common. It may be nothing, but I was trying to reproduce that pattern and I could not get that sharp drop off.
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3. Re: Please help me duplicate this..
Wild_Duck May 11, 2010 11:03 AM (in response to lou4uandme)Well, what does Audition say the sample rate of the audio is? I repeat that I may be leading you up the wrong path, but if the sample rate is 32kHz, that would explain the cut off at 16kHz.
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4. Re: Please help me duplicate this..
lou4uandme May 11, 2010 3:17 PM (in response to Wild_Duck)ok i'll check,
but I am confused, why would that explain the cut off of 16, if the sample rate is 32?
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5. Re: Please help me duplicate this..
Wild_Duck May 11, 2010 3:40 PM (in response to lou4uandme)I'm not good on theory, but to get even more confused, Google Nyquist.
In practical terms the maximum audio frequency that you can record is half the sampling rate, so a CD will never contain frequencies above 22.05kHz as its sampling rate is 44.1kHz.
Others will go into more detail, I hope.
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6. Re: Please help me duplicate this..
SteveG(AudioMasters) May 11, 2010 3:46 PM (in response to Wild_Duck)Wild_Duck wrote:
Well, what does Audition say the sample rate of the audio is?
44.1k - look at the extent of the graphic display... it always displays up to half of the sample rate.
lou4uandme, the maximum frequency you can reproduce is always half of the sample rate - look up Nyquist theorem if you want to know why. But that's not the reason for your cutoff at 16kHz at all - that's very simple. If that was broadcast audio as you indicated, it would have been limited to 16kHz at transmission time, and even if it was subsequently recorded to a DVD, that wouldn't have altered. And yes, you were right earlier - it's no big deal at all.
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7. Re: Please help me duplicate this..
Bob Howes May 11, 2010 9:03 PM (in response to lou4uandme)Just to state unambiguously what the others have been trying to say:
The frequency response you see there is inherent in the processing that was done to put the material on the DVD. You do NOT have to emulate it when creating your soundtrack. Work with the best quality you can get at the production stage; transmission or the conversion to DVD will take care of messing up the sound for you.
In reality, the difference between a 16k upper frequency limit and 20 or 22k is pretty small and takes excellent speakers (and ears younger than mine) to hear.
Bob
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8. Re: Please help me duplicate this..
lou4uandme May 12, 2010 4:49 AM (in response to Bob Howes)Thanks, bob,
Again, the reason I wanted to know was to "mimic" how the pros do it.
For example, I have 3 issues that require professional ears.
1. I have audio that was recorded with a wireless mic that doesn't fit their enviroment (hallway)
2. I have ADR that needs to match what they did 1 year ago
3. There is alot of yelling that's "supposed" to be coming from another room
Anyone that has recorded with wireless mics know, that the sound is very dry.
So I have to simulate that the person is way done the hall in another room.
Again, I am a colorist by trade, so I have 0 experience with sound.
I'm guessing audio is more of an ART than a science but I was hoping that I could have analyzed the pro audios and mimic it.
Thanks again,
Lou
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9. Re: Please help me duplicate this..
52Dodgecoronet May 13, 2010 6:18 AM (in response to lou4uandme)Record an example of the desired audio (e.g., somebody really yelling in the next room) and then examine that waveform in spectral view. Then compare it to the spectral view of the audio you want to modify, and dick around with the graphic equalizer until you (hopefully) get a similar-looking
frequency distribution in the spectrum. In this example, it would probably be similar to a simple high-frequency rolloff, since low-frequency notes are transmitted through walls better than high-frequency tones are.
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10. Re: Please help me duplicate this..
Bob Howes May 13, 2010 7:16 AM (in response to lou4uandme)Well, I'm afraid it really IS more an art than a science...and, rather than trying to analyse the frequency response or whatever, I'm afraid you're going to have to use your ears.
First off, if the location sound recordists have been doing their jobs, you may find some recordings of the general atmosphere from each location your scenes were shot in. Even in an apparently quiet area, mixing some of the sound from the site with the radio mic feeds will help a lot in getting rid of the overly dry radio mic sound.
Beyond that though, it's not just frequency response that you have to analyse. It's the natural room reverb for the location. A small domestic hallway will have a little; a big train station will have a lot. Audition has a lot of reverb presets--try a few along with the shots in question and see what sounds best. Don't be afraid to try playing with the various parameters--probably starting with something like "early reflections" and maybe also the total reverb time.
Don't go too far though--intelligibility is generally more important than a totally real sound and, psycho-acoustically, the brain will make allowances. If you critically watch most TV and film, the sound is generally dryer than nature would actually give you. Or, put another way, the brain filters off the natural reverb that exists, hence all the questions in here about getting rid of reverb after a shoot.
As for the "next room" stuff, the poster above is correct that you'll probably want to filter off some high frequencies as these usually get lost faster than lower ones. Clearly, sound coming from elsewhere will also be a lower level so playing with that is also in order. Finally, again, a bit of room reverb.
Same for the ADR. Listen to the original sound and try to analyse what you're hearing then duplicate it. Again, if you have some natural sound from the location to mix in, it'll make your job a lot easier.
Sorry I can't give you a way to technically analyse the sound and do an easy fix but admit it: when you do your job as a colourist, you can't get an automatic setting--you have to look at the pics and decide what is right to suit the mood and location!
Bob
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11. Re: Please help me duplicate this..
lou4uandme May 13, 2010 8:20 AM (in response to Bob Howes)Thanks Bob,
I will keep all of that in mind. It would have been so easy for me if some one would have gone into another room and yelled out anything.
At least I would have had a reference to match. I have to play with the settings and say to myself, does this sound like it's coming from another room?
Oh well,
Thanks so much,
Lou

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