9 Replies Latest reply on May 13, 2010 3:08 AM by DonJMitchell

    Horizontal line distortion

    DonJMitchell

      Hi all,

      I have posted regarding this problem and thought I had made progress, however, I was wrong.

       

      I am editing footage for an instructional DVD and web based project. It includes a filmed shot of a piano player, plus overhead shot of his hands, plus (the problem point) musical notation shown on screen. The notation are jpegs and png's imported from a music notation software package. They are clear and sharp when viewed in preview on my Mac. In PPro (CS4 4.2.1) the lines are very blurred in play, and change the amount of blur when I hit stop.

       

      I have tried moving the position of the images on the screen a few pixels up or down, and it does make a difference - but not really an improvement.

      Sometimes I can see 3 of the five lines in play, and then 5 when stopped. Other clips I see 5 grey lines rather than black, and then lose 2 or 3 in stop.

       

      I have also framed the clips with a preset bevel edge from the effects menu. It also changes the apparent amount of blur - and the number of lines that either are visible or disappear.

       

      I shot the footage in DV, and in general it looks OK in PPro, but not as sharp as the original.

      I am watching at 100%, rather than 'fit', as I thought it was perhaps just a screen issue.

      I will attach a screengrab of PPro problem plus one of the original music Jpeg.

       

      I am quite new to video (being an audio guy originally) so all suggestions willingly accepted.

      Thanks,

       

      DonLine distortion 1 on Lesson 4c.jpg

      4 C 1.jpg

        • 1. Re: Horizontal line distortion
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          Don,

           

          A couple of questions please.

           

          Have you Rendered your Timeline, after completing the assembly?

           

          How do your blacks look without the Bevel? Also, remember that NTSC video cannot do super-blacks, so you will only get very dark gray, about 16, and whites will only be about 236. You might want to use one of the scopes, or even Fast Color Corrector, just to see what level of gray you are actually getting. Another consideration is that one's monitor gamma settings can throw things off in the Program Monitor, which is but an emulation. To really monitor the "look," a calibrated NTSC (or PAL) CRT monitor, hooked up via FW and an A-D device will give you a better display of what you have. Next best is a test output to DVD and viewing on a properly calibrated TV.

           

          You say that you have used JPEG's and PNG's. Do you know the JPEG compression level of those. Are the PNG's PNG-24?

           

          Just some thoughts, and maybe way off-base with each.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: Horizontal line distortion
            DonJMitchell Level 1

            Thanks for your response.

             

            Yes, I have been rendering the assembled sections (lessons) as I go along. However, I have laid out all the lessons sequentially along the timeline and have only been rendering each lesson as I . There are, therefore, lots of segments as yet unrendered further down the timeline, but I haven't been exporting them.

            If I toggle the bevel on and off, I can see a marked difference in the clarity of the lines. I have resorted to playing without for  my client, but I prefered the look with the bevel. As for the PNG images, they were captured as 'grabs' from the mac, and saved. These were mostly done elsewhere, with some coming to me as jpegs from the grab, save as: jpegs, so nt sure about any compression.

            Unfortunately, I am working in a remote area, at home, without access to CRT and D-A kit. I will try burning to DVD and checking from there.

            I have been exporting MPEG2 to 1440 x 1080i High Q, although I shot in DV. Am I likely to be causing problems by doing so?Is it better to export as DV High Q, then convert later?

            Sorry for so many questions.

             

            Regards,

            Don

             

             

            I

            • 3. Re: Horizontal line distortion
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              Don,

               

              Thanks for reporting. I've got a few tips, that might, or might not be useful.

               

              1.) For a similar "look" think about doing a Title with a Shape about the size of your musical notations, and then applying the Bevel to that. You are basically doing a PiP-PiP, and you would want the Title to be on the Video Track just below your PNG/JPEG. That might get you a similar look, but without the distortion, degradation.

               

              2.) When you do the test Burn, pick up a pack of DVD RW discs, and use those for your testing. That will save making "coasters."

               

              3.) I think you are already doing this, but one can limit the area to be Rendered with the WAB (Work Area Bar), so that one does not need to Render the full Timeline, until necessary. Just be sure to reset the WAB, prior to Export.

               

              Good luck, and feel free to ignore any of those,

               

              Hunt

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: Horizontal line distortion
                DonJMitchell Level 1

                Hi Hunt.

                 

                Lot's of food for thought, and to try.

                The PiP makes sense. I'll give your suggestions a go. Each attempt is teaching me something new - so I'll get there eventually.

                 

                Thanks agan,

                 

                Don

                • 5. Re: Horizontal line distortion
                  DonJMitchell Level 1

                  Having re-read your suggestions, a thought has occured to me.

                   

                  You mention the order / relationship of the jpeg and title video tracks.

                   

                  My workflow / track discipline is still a little ad-hoc as I am learning as I go. I have up to 8 tracks running simultaneously. The bottom 2 are cam 1 and 2, both sized to be seen on the assembled screen as I want them, then I have 3 or 4 tracks containing titles, some for the whole duration of the programme (ie lesson number) while other moving titles come in and out. The music notation sequences (npgs etc) are mostly on track 4. Each title and notation change - of which there are many - each have a video transition or fade, and a bevel. Could this all be adding up to my problem. Is there a more logical / necessary way to approach this.

                  Your bevel / title suggestion is making even more sense now.

                   

                  Ta,

                  Don

                  • 6. Re: Horizontal line distortion
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    Don,

                     

                    Your layout is about what I would be doing too. I do not spot any issues there. I'd look into inserting the Shape w/ Bevel just below (as you view the Tracks on the Timeline) your musical annotations. This is most easily done (IMHO), by just Targeting the Track below the musical annotations, and doing Add Track, and locating it Above Target Track (or similar syntax). Exact version of PrPro might differ very slightly. Then, experiment with a Title with the Shape (I'm thinking just a white [well, light gray] rectangle with Bevel applied to it), and see if this improves things.

                     

                    Note: aside from your stated issues, I think that the layout looks very good, so I'd not think of doing anything drastic. I think if you can solve those few issues, you are "home-free!"

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                     

                    PS - you might want to look into some of the existing Styles for that rectangle, as I think that a few have a Bevel. Also, if the Bevel Effect still messes things up, maybe do a graphic image in PS, and use the Layer Styles/Filters on it, then Save_As a PSD, to be used universally for the music annotation background. That takes all Effects (other than Transitions and Keyframed animations) out of the picture. I have found that some Effects, while useful for motion Video, do not work quite as expected for stills.

                    1 person found this helpful
                    • 7. Re: Horizontal line distortion
                      Dag Norum Level 2

                      Don,

                       

                      One thing I have always said about screen-captures/shots is: NEVER re-size.

                       

                      From your posted pictures it looks like that you have re-sized/scaled the screen-shots.

                       

                      Just for the sake of it, as a test, try to insert your screen shots and DO NOT scale them (for the test's sake, don't care about the composition look). Now, what do you see? I would guess, looked at 100% and/or a test-export, your lines would look better.

                       

                      Of course, the interlacing issue may still be a problem especially if you lines don't "hit" even or odd lines (for which there have been a couple of good work-arounds presented), , but you might get a lesson about re-scaling/sizing screen-shots.

                       

                      Dag

                       

                      EDIT: Moral is (for me anyway), make screen-/shots/grabs/captures the size that will fit your your project/sequense settings without re-scaling/sizing.

                      • 8. Re: Horizontal line distortion
                        DonJMitchell Level 1

                        Thanks for your input, Dag.

                         

                        I'm away from the Mac at the moment, but will certainly gibe this a try tomorrow.

                         

                        I'm based in Scotland so am a bit out of time sync with you guys.

                         

                        Hopefully get the issues resolved tomorrow.

                         

                        Regards,

                        Don

                        • 9. Re: Horizontal line distortion
                          DonJMitchell Level 1

                          A huge thanks guys.

                          I have the JPEGS and PNG's at their original size, and have lost the bevel edge & recreated with Pip-PiP title rectangles. Nice and sharp now.

                          Also Much quicker to build and assemble.

                           

                          Nothing loke a learning curve to keep you on your toes.

                           

                          Cheers,

                          Don