1 2 Previous Next 43 Replies Latest reply on Feb 12, 2012 3:42 PM by Muppet Mark

    Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?

    Maddog_4U Level 1

      CS5 is not honouring the relative position when cutting from one document then pasting to another.   In CS4 I would drag the ruler to a common element of both documents, then cut from one and paste in front in the other document.   This is no longer the case with CS5, it appears to be Art Board bound some how, and I dont want that becuase I can never be 100% assured the custom art boards are of the same size .... what happened Adobe , life used to be simple ?  Is there a software switch somewhere to have cut & paste adhere to relative ruler position ?

       

        • 1. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
          Larry G. Schneider Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Check the Preferences. In CS5, each artboard has it's own set of rulers.

          • 2. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
            Maddog_4U Level 1

              What is it that I am checking for in the preference ?

            • 3. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
              Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

              In CS 5 this is what has changed. Select the art you want to copy and of course hit Command C then select the artboard you want to paste the art to and hit Command F or Command B or Command Shift V.

               

              No need to change the rulers it will be positioned from the top left hand corner.

               

              Hope this helps.

               

              You asked the team for this and they responded in a great way. Here is a screen shot of two rectangle using one of the commands Ilised

               

              Screen shot 2010-05-11 at 5.42.31 PM.png

              • 4. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                Maddog_4U Level 1

                I am confused. 

                 

                Are you telling me that cut and paste is no longer associated with absolute positions relative to the ruler.  In CS4 I can move the ruler in Document A against object-1, then I would move the ruler 0 point next to object-1 as it would appear in Document B, then I could select object-2 in Document B, copy object-2, open Document A and paste object-2 into Document A with the assurance that the relative position between object-1 and object-2 would be the same in both the source Document and the destination Document iregardless of the artboard size / position.  This is an importnat function when maintaining continuity of element relationships between say a label and box and shrink sleeve.

                 

                Why has this been changed ?

                • 5. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                  Maddog_4U Level 1

                  file://localhost/Users/MAC2/Desktop/doc-A.tiffDOC-A.jpgDOC-B.jpg

                  Note the change in relative position despite the rulers being zeroed to the uper left corner of the orange box.  The purple box is copied from A then pasted to B .... this is bad.  Whats the fix ?

                  • 6. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                    Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                    Paste in front is now relative to the artboard upper left, the reason for that is by popular demand this be so that when on pastes into a different artboard ti will paste t that position regardless f the size of the artboard.

                     

                    This was implemented by overwhelming demand the reason is that when one wanted to paste in front or back or in place onto a different artboard it was
                    not pasting that ay which was the way it always worked in the paste it was pasting on top of the copied object.

                     

                    So something had to give and now that this improvement showed u so did someone who found fault with it, that being you. Under the edit menu notice paste in place and paste on all artboards

                     

                    The best I think you can do is make an art board on the original document the same as the one on the second document place that relative to the orange rectangle as it is is in its own document now copy and paste in front on the second document.

                     

                    The behavior no longer seems to be valid for CS5. Progress.

                    1 person found this helpful
                    • 7. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                      Doug Katz Level 4

                      Wade, what is command-shift-v? Is that a new (CS5) command?

                       

                      Thanks.

                      • 8. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                        Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                        Yes, paste in place.

                         

                        There are new commands in the edit menu

                         

                        Screen shot 2010-05-11 at 11.36.38 PM.png

                         

                        What happens in CS5 if you select an object and hit command c then select a different artboard it will paste it in the same position
                        as it was on the original artboard marking the location from the top left hand corner of the artboard. And as you can see you can also see you can do that to all the artboards with one command. I think very handy.

                         

                        The artboards have some good features like being able to not only name them but to move them about then rearrange so that the numbers repaginate

                        soit becomes 1234 all over again.

                         

                        This is a good feature though we have one person here preferred it the other way.

                        1 person found this helpful
                        • 9. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                          Maddog_4U Level 1

                          I hear you .

                          I understand the politics of the decision.

                           

                          I wish there was a paste to ruler command as a supplement to make me happy

                           

                           

                           

                          Thanks for all your input.

                          • 10. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                            Abaris Andrew Level 1

                            Make that 2!

                             

                            What if you want to paste between 2 or more documents in the same relative position (to the zero point) but different page sizes.
                            EG. copy logo from document 1 - then paste in front to document 2?

                            It worked perfect in CS4 (and earlier). CS5 seem to just put it anywhere it likes!

                            • 11. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                              Vernox Level 1

                              Make that 3. I deal with many different sized documents from different sources, and paste relative to the origin regardless where it is was an important part of my workflow. The down side was it's effect on patterns, but I use those rarely.

                               

                              I'm happy about the better pattern control, and if they would just add back in a "Paste in Place by Global Origin" the previous behaviour could be regained.

                               

                              Yours

                              Vern

                               

                              Message was edited by: Vernox

                              • 12. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                                Maddog_4U wrote:

                                 

                                I hear you .

                                I understand the politics of the decision.

                                 

                                I wish there was a paste to ruler command as a supplement to make me happy

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                Thanks for all your input.

                                Thank you for this suggestion perhaps we should all go to the feature request and make this an official request, I think this suggestion would be a powerfully useful tool.

                                 

                                You can place a feature request here.

                                 

                                https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                                • 14. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                  Doug Katz Level 4

                                  Wade, on the command-shift-v command... in CS4 and previous, that same shortcut toggled editing functionality between an envelope and its contents. Does envelope editing now have a new shortcut in CS5?

                                  • 15. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                    Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                                    Always asking questions always making trouble…yes…command+shift+P

                                    • 17. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                      Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                                      You're welcome!

                                       

                                      What version are you working with at the moment?

                                      • 18. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                        Doug Katz Level 4

                                        4. But this is because in order to work with 5, I'll need to buy a new box. I'm on a PowerPC G5. Big money in a shaky economy.

                                        • 19. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                          Scott Ramsay 76 Level 1

                                          I agree completely with Maddog, if this has to change then consider the many professionals (certainly more than 5 I'm sure) who this impacts by making it an option in preferences.  I'd like to know who the majority of users who prefer the new version actually are?

                                          • 20. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                            Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                                            I guess you have not read the Illustrator forum before.

                                            • 22. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                              Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                                              It was a big request here and there were many post asking for it and making the 0 orientation to the top left as well.

                                               

                                              Pasting according the upper left hand corner was a big request, that is paste in place, if you read the forum often you would have noticed the amount of users that wanted this and to be able to do this from artboard to artboard

                                              • 23. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                                Scott Ramsay 76 Level 1

                                                Perhaps I'm part of the silent majority adhering to the maxim "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".  As I mentioned, perhaps a better implementation would have involved having the option in prefs.

                                                • 24. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                                  adelaney Level 1

                                                  Yeah I posted about this issue yesterday, glad to see others have been complaining about it. It's a huge issue, a dealbreaker as far as using CS5 or not. From the posts about labels and shrink wrap kinda sounds like there's some other folks in the thread doing flexographic work. I don't know if there's something about flexography that makes us desperately need to retain this feature, but so it is (I suppose since flexography uses so many different slightly different document sizes on a regular basis, compared to commercial which may only  use 4 or 5 radically different document sizes on a regular basis, it might affect us more).

                                                   

                                                  I put a call into Adobe about it yesterday. First level phone support said that on their end paste was working the way I wanted it. (He screen shared with my computer, I showed him the issue and he was mystified by it saying his CS5 was merrily pasting according to the ruler origin.) This makes it seem like, in contrary to Mr. Zimmerman, that this can be changed in a setting somehow. Note that support also called over their supervisor and they were both surprised to see me unable to paste in place (front/back) relative to the ruler, only relative to the document. He escalated the issue to second level support and said I should get a call back sometime late this week, we shall see. Obviously I can only trust 1st level support so much. I didn't screen share to him (only him to me) so for all I know (despite his assurances) he was accidentally working in CS4 or CS3.

                                                   

                                                  The weird thing to me about the whole issue is the change doesn't actually give anyone anything they didn't have before. Mr. Zimmerman seems to be saying that everyone and their brother was asking to be able to always paste according to the corner of the document, but in old versions that functionality was already present. If you wanted to paste according to the corner of the document you just double clicked in the top left corner (between your x and y rulers) to reset the rulers to the corner. Okay maybe people didn't want to reset their rulers after they paste, but it's a whole lot easier to reset a ruler than it is to be forced to paste things around a document without a ruler's help. I also understand that by adding in artboards (not a useful feature for me, but definitely a useful feature for most designers....old Freehand users will undoubtedly be leaping for joy) paste according to rulers becomes more problematic and they probably wanted to streamline things by default...but I still have a hard time imagining that Adobe would so screw over their customer base by totalling removing this functionality that has been so basic to Illustrator for so long by removing it entirely.

                                                   

                                                  I definitely second (sixth, seventh) the requests to add a paste according to ruler option  if my 1st level support guy was incorrect in his assessment that the functionality could still be turned on in CS5. I will post hopefully later this week with an update on my experience with 2nd level support.

                                                  • 25. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                                    Abaris Andrew Level 1

                                                    It's now been a couple of months since my original post...

                                                    We've had to change our workflow, templates and most of our existing jobs.

                                                    I don't like the change - but too late now to wait for a fix or change to the preferences.

                                                    I can't see us ever needing to use multiple artboards or the artboard rules.

                                                    • 26. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                                      Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                                                      When you do realize what they can do for you come back and tell us how much and how they benefit your new work flow.

                                                      • 27. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                                        adelaney Level 1

                                                        Understood Abaris, I'm with you. That does sound daunting. I hope to get a better answer before we head that route. And yeah for the kind of work it sounds like we do yes of course artboards (as wonderful as they are in general) will never be used. I certainly will use them as a freelance designer after work, I've actually missed them ever since I had to leave Freehand in 2002. But yeah, from 8-5 there's no reason to use them and every reason not to. For flexo at least it's like offering a bicycle to a fish. And for that reason I'm just ever so slightly annoyed (for my work life only) that Adobe choose to include them, because they're just one more feature that designers will use and we'll have to force them out of artboards into their own documents. Not really any different than copying them out of the individual documents, but still. It was the right decision for Adobe to make for their customer base, Lord knows I've been used to Adobe ignoring the needs of flexo for a very very long time. (After all, they completely ignored prepress until CS4, I don't expect them ever to pay attention to flexo...but hey...that's why Esko/Artworks has made so much money for so long from us flexo drones)

                                                        • 28. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                                          Scott Ramsay 76 Level 1

                                                          I primarily use Illustrator for creating press ready artwork, manoeuvring agency design files (don't get me started on those) into complex pre-existing cutter guides, set up to technical drawings.  As such I need to shift and move large amounts of data, sometimes on over twenty layers, quickly, efficiently and confidently.  I can move around CS4 at nigh on the speed of light and CS5 has completely taken that away from me and as an industry professional this is costing my company money.  Software is constantly updated with new and innovative processes that I wholeheartedly embrace, whether it's the adjustable masks in Photoshop or the render instance function in Cinema 4D but for this backward change I have neither the patience or inclination to re-learn.

                                                          • 29. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                                            adelaney Level 1

                                                            Alright well I've had a helluva time with Adobe call in tech support. It's been well over a month now of trying to talk to someone in second level support. (They escalated me after the first conversation, but evidently their software can't update my phone/email records from 10 years ago so they have to read the notes on my case to see that my phone number is different...freakin' rocket scientists designed their help desk software apparently).

                                                             

                                                            Anyway, although I have STILL not been able to talk to anyone in second level support (despite three calls back over the course of several weeks from first level support to tell me second level support was ABOUT to call me) my most recent conversation with first level support consisted of them passing along information from second level support that although the functionality was thrown away from paste in front and paste in back, theoretically paste in place should still somehow be able to work like old paste in front/back (with respect to the rulers). But the person who called me didn't know how to get it to do that and second level support hadn't bothered to tell her how. And yes time is money and I'm losing both of them.

                                                             

                                                            So she again said second level support would call me back. I'll believe it when I see it, but at least there continues to be some hope that they have included a way for their installed user base to still use this features we've grown up with.

                                                             

                                                            By the way, out of curiousity, since Mr. Zimmerman says no one on Adobe Forums ever wanted this feature to stay the same which is why Adobe changed it (which makes sense because who would go on Adobe Forums if they weren't having a problem/didn't want a feature removed/changed?), are there regularly threads on here from the Illustrator team asking if it's okay to totally change how a feature worked or remove a feature? Should I be coming on Adobe forums regularly so I can defend the features I like to avoid them being removed?

                                                             

                                                            Here's for starters: I really need the ability to offset paths. Please in CS6 do not remove the ability to offset paths, this, just like paste with respect to rulers, is a critical feature for me.

                                                            • 30. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                                              adelaney Level 1

                                                              That sounds like a nightmare Scott. Sounds like you need this feature even more than I do and it's a dealbreaker for me as it is. My condolences.

                                                              • 31. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                                                Abaris Andrew Level 1

                                                                I'm with you 100% adelaney.

                                                                 

                                                                I understand what you are going through.

                                                                For me... I've had to change our workflow to work around this issue.

                                                                 

                                                                @Wade.... nope, still cant find a need for multiple artboards within our work flow 

                                                                • 32. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                                                  Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                                                                  Abaris Andrew wrote:

                                                                   

                                                                  I'm with you 100% adelaney.

                                                                   

                                                                  I understand what you are going through.

                                                                  For me... I've had to change our workflow to work around this issue.

                                                                   

                                                                  @Wade.... nope, still cant find a need for multiple artboards within our work flow 

                                                                  Yep this sounds correct to me an from experience you will be defending multiple artboards in the future as soon as your clients needs change and you have to work with their new work flow.

                                                                   

                                                                  It never fails to happen even to myself.

                                                                  • 33. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                                                    jbackus4 Level 1

                                                                    I am also a Prepress person from Flexo. I only upgrade my software as my  clients do mainly because in a production invironment, change like  this, retards speed. I too am confused why the copy and paste in  front/back to rulers would be removed from CS5. I will be submitting my  formal request to add back this feature and to retain the Offset Paths  feature (hehe) to CS6.

                                                                     

                                                                    Thank you MADDOG_4U for submitting this post.

                                                                     

                                                                    JB

                                                                    • 34. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                                                      adelaney Level 1

                                                                      Yeah it just seems really mean...as if Adobe hates people outputting from Illustrator without taking it into InDesign.

                                                                       

                                                                      I put this in the other thread a while ago, but just by way of update: 2nd level support finally got back to me (it only took 3 months) to say no there is no fix either in existence or planned. The feature was eliminated, if you want it back make a formal feature request. Defies imagination.

                                                                       

                                                                      Also by way of update, I continue to joyfully use CS5 at home as a designer and it continues to make me want to tear my eyeballs out at work as a flexo tech. I don't have any problems with artboards. It's good to have as a designer, and although useless for flexo prepress it doesn't really hurt me either. I continue to be flabbergasted that we are unable to have a preference setting to switch between pasting with respect to the ruler and pasting with respect to the top left of the document. I have also continued to be unable to find a plugin that fixes it back. I am still only using CS5 at work to save down to CS3, I don't have time to deal with CS5 not allowing me to quickly and precisely paste around my document and I don't have time to deal with being given less information immediately about my document (for example not being able to see clipping paths in outline mode anymore).

                                                                      • 35. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                                                        jbackus4 Level 1

                                                                        Agreed! I made my formal req. I will encourage others to do so too. Thanks again for starting this post.

                                                                         

                                                                        JB

                                                                        • 36. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                                                          sibbi4 Level 1

                                                                          Hi,

                                                                           

                                                                          Same issue here. Is it not possible to write a script that does the job

                                                                           

                                                                          Sebastian.

                                                                          • 37. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                                                            jbackus4 Level 1

                                                                            Sebastian,

                                                                             

                                                                            Maybe there is a script but I've yet to find one. The best thing we can do is make a formal request to change it back. You can do that at the link below.

                                                                             

                                                                            https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                                                                             

                                                                            Thank you,

                                                                            JB

                                                                            • 38. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                                                              NCP design Level 1

                                                                              its taken me a while to make the jump to CS5 - loved rock solidness of Cs4 but i agree with the majority of the thoughts here. CS5 removing the paste according to ruler origins is a deal breaker. I have worked in packaging design for over 20 years and being able to paste accurately according to the ruler origin whereever the 0 has been place per the dieline is an absolute necessity. We have certainly gone back to the dark ages with CS5. Why adobe would remove such an valuable feature ignoring many of their users leaves me totally dumb founded. A hefty investmet to move to CS5 for an entire packaging design studio and we all need to continue using CS4 - such a waste! Hey guys in adobe land - listen carefully ... we need this feature back.

                                                                              • 39. Re: Cut & Paste - different position relative to ruler - why ?
                                                                                Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                                                                                Ican give you a possible wok around you might not like it because it works differently

                                                                                 

                                                                                you simply draw an artboards starting at each dieline you will need to do this with.

                                                                                 

                                                                                then all you have t do is select the artboard and paste in in front, paste in back or paste in place the select the next art etc.

                                                                                 

                                                                                So when you draw your complete die layout you also draw te artboards and this might be useful if you have to print out proofs a particular panel if you draw the artboards to the width of the panels.

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