23 Replies Latest reply on May 13, 2010 9:31 AM by jpw21683

    CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!

    digartz Level 1

      W ith almost every other package offering support, from freeware to the leading competitors, why on Earth can't Adobe get it together and provide Tivo file support. This is such a pain to have to load in another program, output to mpeg, then go thru Premier. Licensing issues are solved on Tivo's end - get over it already, we need it, we want it, we're paying for it.

        • 1. Re: CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          In my years here, this is the first time that I have heard of anyone wanting Tivo file support. Maybe file a Feature Request.Not sure that Adobe is aware of the market for this sort of thing.

           

          When I had to edit a client's wife's televised cooking shows, I just hooked his Direct TV recorder to my capture card, and captured to DV-AVI Type II's, with no issue. It was actually much better than from the DVD-Videos, that the TV station provided him.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!
            Colin Brougham Level 6

            No, please, don't file a feature request. This is not anything that needs to be in Premiere. Ever. Period. Do the responsible thing and support one of these other "leading competitors" who saw fit to sully their product with such esoteric format support. No professional workflow ever utilizes Tivo recordings.

            • 3. Re: CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!
              the_wine_snob Level 9

               

               

              Hunt

               

              PS - I was thinking similar, but just did not articulate that.

              • 4. Re: CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!
                digartz Level 1

                Let me spell it out, it's called convenience and meeting (and perhaps exceeding ) the competition. Perhaps you're both from the camp that adding one more feature might break the whole camel's back? Where would Adobe be if they followed that course?

                We have clients that are broadcast on media outlets all over the world and need to grab the broadcast as fast as possible. Although we have permission, it can take weeks to months to get copies from the broadcaster in other countries - and good luck getting broadcast quality of any kind. Since you aren't yet aware, Tivo HD files are actually amazing HD files and better than Mpeg in some respects. The compression ratios are one of the formulas that makes Tivo work as well as they do.

                • 5. Re: CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!
                  Curt Wrigley Level 4

                  I agree you should put in a feature request.  FR are acted on based on the volume of similar requests.  So I wouldn't hold hope that this will be near the top of the list.  This is the first Ive heard of a need for tivo files in Pr. 

                  • 6. Re: CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!
                    jpw21683 Level 1

                    I'm not a Tivo user myself, but I'm assuming the DVR has component video out? There are capture cards available that can capture HD via component. Some can even capture via HDMI, but Tivo's HDMI port might prohibit that.

                    • 7. Re: CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      With the Direct TV DVR, this was exactly what I did. As my capture card has no HDMI, I did even experiment with that.

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!
                        Wil Renczes Adobe Employee

                        I thought that Tivo streams were still part of a closed system (probably due to program licensing restrictions).

                         

                        How are you lifting the streams from the unit?  Does Tivo have any open support for ftp'ing in/out of the units now?  Or some other mechanism?

                         

                        Just curious...

                        • 9. Re: CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!
                          jpw21683 Level 1

                          Wil,

                           

                          I honestly have no idea. I have zero experience with DVRs, whether Tivo or DirectTV.  I just figured that the boxes have some kind of outputs to capture from.

                           

                          Obviously, component is capable of HD. But the box may be set to downscale HD over component to 480p.

                           

                          HDMI is likely HDCP protected, so probably not possible to capture from it.

                           

                          The only DVR I'm familiar with is Windows Media Center. So my suggestion, if you have a Vista or Win7 computer with WMC is to buy a cheap USB TV-tuner & record with it. I don't think Premiere natively supports the recorded dvr-ms or wtv files, but there are plenty of free tools out there convert them into an editable format.

                          • 10. Re: CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!
                            digartz Level 1

                             

                             

                            I'm really surprised by the responses. But anyway here it goes. Tivo is a networked device that you can download almost any content to your shared devices on your network, (computers, and shared tivo devices - whatever) throughout the network. They have a wireless adapter right off the Tivo, but it's very slow, the 10/100 wired network is the only way to go once you've upgraded to HD. They have a Tivo To Go Desktop Software utility (one that's free, one that’s $24) that downloads the programs and does some conversions, mainly to IPod Mpeg4, but its compression conversions are very poor and leaves you with nothing to edit obviously. The whole point of my post is that sure there are some applications that are doing this, but you can spend hours going back and forth between apps - why when it should just be done in CS5? Spend $1200, get it all done darn it! You don't stay at the premium hotel to get your shoes shined at the Super 8!

                             

                            The raw TiVo files are incredible, the compression ratios are unlike anything I've seen in Mpeg and contain full surround sound. Using a capture card would just be a whole other time killer. It's already recorded and there waiting, you just transfer it to your hard drive and edit it - boom your done! Licensing is handled by Tivo, restricted files can't be transferred and there's no way around it I've seen, even files they hook to through the internet can't be accessed.

                             

                            Oh yeah, did I mention they have tens of thousands of internet feeds you can set to auto keyword feed that automatically download and are ready to watch. There's tons of Adobe tutorials that auto-download to Tivo - you guys are missing a whole world of programming (After Effects especially - tons!)

                            • 11. Re: CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!
                              digartz Level 1

                              P.S. thats for the tip on Feature Request, i will try that and hope somebody else eventually

                              will fall into the fray!

                              • 12. Re: CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!
                                Wil Renczes Adobe Employee

                                So digartz, I have Tivo (in fact, I have two).  You've described the  end user features, and I'm familiar with the feature set, but nothing  you've described says how to get to the naked media.  As far as I've  seen, it's still a closed system - nothing allows you to download the  full res footage directly, you can only play via the set top box or  through streaming browser.  As you pointed out, the converter utility doesn't give you anything to use.

                                 

                                I suspect you're asking for something that isn't allowed by Tivo.  Circling back to the licensing agreements on the use of media, I'm sure that they're bound to restrict distribution to playback devices only.  If you had open access to the HD streams, then they're open for reproduction, which is a lawsuit they can't afford.  That's why I asked how do you get access to the media on disk...

                                • 13. Re: CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!
                                  Phil Griffith Level 2

                                  Personally I would rearrange to say...Tivo support on CS5-ugg!

                                  • 14. Re: CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!
                                    digartz Level 1

                                     

                                    Hi Wil

                                    The Tivo To Go Desktop Utility (on the Tivo.com site) gets you there w/ your media access key. You can download all recorded programs on the Tivo drive, unless they've been DRM'd, then they'll have a little stop sign icon. As I mentioned, w/ various other programs (with the sore exception of CS5) you can edit & convert to your heart's delight, most Tivo'd shows. Licensing is up to the user's responsibility as with most user MP3 situations; you can record cd's and upload to your Ipod. Same with Tivo, convert Vid's to MP4 and upload to Ipod, for rebroadcasting or web posting you do need permission obviously.

                                    • 15. Re: CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!
                                      Curt Wrigley Level 4

                                      Im trying to figure out why one would edit tv shows or movies?

                                      • 16. Re: CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!
                                        digartz Level 1

                                        Reason 1: Clients travel around the world performing, they do press junkets on Newscast and talks shows. We don't want the full show, just the segment they are on. We then put that segment on the web site for fans to view around the rest of the world.Yes we have the show's permission to rebroadcast that segment, but getting the shows staff to go back and trim...do you have any idea how long that takes - if ever? And getting broadcast quality - forget it!

                                         

                                        Reason 2: Actors, performers, musicians, writers have segments in breif portions of movies and TV and need them for their reels...hence clipping! Same thing, getting the production company to do this for you takes forever - if ever!

                                         

                                        Reason 3: Other posts I have read is that people like to remove commercials from TV for uploading to their Ipods to save space. Some things never make it to DVD/Bluray these days. Sometimes its a matter of watching things while they travel.

                                         

                                        Should i go on...?

                                        • 17. Re: CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!
                                          Curt Wrigley Level 4

                                          .

                                           

                                          Should i go on...?

                                          No, I think I get it.

                                          • 18. Re: CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                            For #1, I would just purchase one of those competitive programs and amortize the cost over the number of such clients.

                                             

                                            If one must wait until CS6, I would suspect that Tivo will have changed in another 18 mos., and much of the stated business will have gone elsewhere.

                                             

                                            Good luck,

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                            • 19. Re: CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!
                                              jpw21683 Level 1

                                              I suppose my question is why would Adobe spend resources to add this functionality to a PROFESSIONAL VIDEO-EDITING program, especially with so few people benefiting from it.

                                               

                                              What other PROFESSIONAL-GRADE video-editing software is compatible with these Tivo files?

                                               

                                              Regarding "Reason #3"....seriously?!?  Using a pro NLE to cut commercials out of a recorded TV show??  There are automated (some are even free) tools out there to do that.  VideoReDo comes to mind (which now works with Tivo HD, according to their website).  And I'm sure there's something in the hideously bloated Nero suite as well.

                                              • 20. Re: CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!
                                                digartz Level 1

                                                Sorry, I really didn't realize this one little feature request could ruin your whole PROFESSIONAL career...good luck with that! Make sure you don't use Photoshop for any non-professional related applications either.

                                                 

                                                - End -

                                                • 21. Re: CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!
                                                  dradeke Adobe Employee

                                                  We have Tivo output presets in CS5 and I imagine that you can take a Tivo clip and drop it to the new sequence button and have a more than reasonable chance of playing it no problem (assuming it's MPEG or something similar).

                                                   

                                                  Dennis

                                                  • 22. Re: CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!
                                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                    I do not think that the question has ruined anyone's day, or otherwise. At least I hope not.

                                                     

                                                    Heck, I've actually done what you are requesting, though not with Tivo specifically. I can see that if the Tivo format is proprietary, then there might need to be other work done. Kate just posted a link to a utility that handles Tivo files in her case.

                                                     

                                                    Not sure if Dennis' suggestion will work, but he's in a far better position to comment on that, than I will ever be. Can you give that a try and report?

                                                     

                                                    I am also curious as to which competitive programs offer direct Tivo support. Who knows, the next client might bring in a Tivo, instead of a Direct TV DVR, and I would like to know how to handle it. Do not have CS5 yet, so I can't even borrow a Tivo from someone else to try.

                                                     

                                                    Good luck,

                                                     

                                                    Hunt

                                                    • 23. Re: CS5 still no Tivo support - uggg!
                                                      jpw21683 Level 1

                                                      If I came off as a raving ******* in my previous message, my apologies. That wasn't my intent.

                                                       

                                                      If Adobe is able to add Tivo compatibility, that's great! It would not affect my usage of the program whatsoever.

                                                       

                                                      But, yes, I do use Adobe's software professionally. I understand how development cycles work, and as a pro user I'd rather see Adobe devote their development resources on "pro" features (i.e. MPE/GPU acceleration, better tapeless/metadata workflow, rotobrush [which is awesome, btw!]), rather than spend time on features of questionable value (at least to most users).

                                                       

                                                      I encourage you to submit a feature request.  But I do think it might be a better fit in Premiere Elements.

                                                       

                                                      From what I found online, it looks like the recordings are in .tivo format, a container with video in MPEG-2 (possibly a really high bitrate for better quality) plus some kind of identifier of the box that recorded it (for DRM purposes).

                                                       

                                                      Just as a test, make a copy of a .tivo recording, in Windows Explorer change the file extension (of the duplicated file! Keep the original file unaltered, just in case!) from .tivo to .mpg, and try importing the .mpg file into Premiere. What happens?