29 Replies Latest reply on May 21, 2010 6:33 AM by Bill Lumbergh

    HD video editing PC for a beginner

    Bill Lumbergh

      I have done a fair amount of research through this forum (and orthers) and would like to thank all of you knowledgeable people (special reference is made here to Mr Millaard for his many contributions and very useful guides) for your time and efforts trying to educate newbies like undersigned. Thank you!

       

      So here it goes: I am looking to put a HD video editing machine together and I would appreciate your feedback before I pull the trigger. First some critical info:

       

      Objective:

      - editing of at most 40 GB of AVCHD material a time, i.e. manipulate short clips and join them into one big file. Nothing much fancy

      - transcode/convert to MPEG4 - H.264(?) and MPEG2 to be burnt/stored/playback on Blu-Ray respectively DVD.

       

      Level:

      Amateur/basic

       

      Software:

      Thinking of Adobe CS5 and Sony Vegas (Q: kindly advise which of the many Vegas versions). Open to other suggestions. Prefer to also use a program nest to Adobe CS5 that is simple, easy to understand and has a kind interface. Price is no objection.

      O/S will be Windows 7 Ultimate (64)

       

      Additional requirements:

      - Must fit in my current case, the Lian Li V1200A Plus

      - Must be as silent as possible, no overclocking

      - Must have SSD bootdisk

       

      Hardware budget:

      € 3,000 - € 4,000 VAT exclusive

       

      Having noted a lot of do's and dont's from the pro's, I have strayed from the path a liitle with the below setup:

       

      Processor: Core i7 930

      Proc Cooling:Prolimatech Mega Shadow + Noctua NF P14 FLX

      Mb: Gigabite GA-X58A-UD5

      Mem: 2x 12 GB Kingston ValueRam Triple Channel 12 GB, PC3-10666, 1333 MHz, 9, Non-ECC (Q:or should I take the Kingston ValueRam Triple Channel 1066Mhz Cas 7, prices are equal)

      UTS:Seasonic X-750 750 Watt

      Video card: Club3D Radeon HD 5750 Noiseless Edition

      SSD (bootdisk): 100 GB OCZ Vertex 2

      HDD (HD editing - source/read): 1x 1 Tb WD Caviar Black 1 TB, 7200 Rpm, 64 MB, Sata III/600 (Q: would an SSD not significantly speed up the reading of source material during editing/processing?)

      HDD (HD editing - write): 2x 1 Tb WD Caviar Black 1 TB, 7200 Rpm, 32, Sata II, in RAID 0

      Burner: Plextor PX-B940SA Blu-Ray rewriter

      Screen: Dell UltraSharp U2410 (24 Inch) (In case useful, I will use my old 17 inch 4:3 as second screen

       

      Your comments are highly appreciated!

       

      Thank you in advance and best regards,

       

      Bill

       

       

       

       

       

       

      .

        • 1. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
          Scott Chichelli Level 3

          HI,

           

          CS5 over Vegas all day long. particularly right now in how vegas handles avchd.

          bigger power supply, however the seasonic is of good quality

          IF CS5 they you want an nVidia 285/480 or Quadro.

           

          source and render BOTH need to be raid 0 for AVCHD but larger (4 drive) is not needed nor avails anything.

           

          with that said the 930 is a tad on the light side of processing power either over clock (i know) or get the 980x.

          i would not touch value ram from anyone. the X58 platform is VERY persnickity about ram.

           

          Scott

          ADK

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
            Bill Lumbergh Level 1

            Hi Scot,

             

            Many thanks for your feedback. Does CS5 recognize and make use of the 6 core 980x? Also, I will be paying premium (around € 1000) which is 400% of the 930. with it being around 40% faster (if all cores are addressed). .With the mother board only having 2 SATA III ports, would you use them for the read or for the write disks? And what about an SSD for the read disk(s)?

             

            Thanks.

             

            Rgds,

             

            Bill

            • 3. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
              Scott Chichelli Level 3

              HI,

              not seen a big jump from sata 2 to sata III until you get into large disk arrays.

               

              EG:

              WD 1 TB 64 meg Cache Sata 600 Drives

              Intel onboard Controller

              Single drive - 112MB

              2 Drive Raid 0 - 196MB

              Marvell 6G controller

              Single Drive  - 111MB

              2 Drive Raid 0 - 215MB

              not a big jump for 2 drive raid 0

               

              i dont know that i would bother with an SSD drive, it might help with the cache files a tad.

               

              yes the 980x is very much used by CS5, this is the first time i can ever recall recommending Intels most expensive processor.

              especially being an over clocking fan myself.

              but yes it matter that much.

              its actually outpreforming Xeons.

               

              Scott

              ADK

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                Bill Lumbergh Level 1

                Thanks again, Chris. I'll go for the 2x RAID 0 with the SATA III drives (for the fun of it) for source material and the SATA II's for output. I will give the 980x some thought again, but migth stick to the plan of buying the 930 first and switch to the hexacore if I am not content with the speed. I can always sell the 930 for half the price (VAT inclusive) losing only about € 100 .

                 

                I am not overly concerned about the 750W Seasonic, since it proved to be stable and as energy effecient under max stress load as under medium load, even being capable of delivering almost 100W extra in torture without any pain whatsoever (it even performed better than under light load).

                 

                Any other thoughts from anyone would still be appreciated. Aim to order my rig towards the end of next week.

                 

                Regards,

                 

                Bill

                • 5. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                  Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  Bill, from your comments I doubt that you have visited my Premiere Pro Benchmark web site where there are over 100 different configurations with benchmark results posted on the results page.  It might be worthwhile,

                  • 6. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                    Bill Lumbergh Level 1

                    Hi Bill,

                     

                    Thank you for the info. The benchmark posted seems to generate a varity of results, not immediately indicating a winner in each section across the board , apart from CS5 that seems to be a huge improvement.

                     

                    From these results, it isn't clear to me (remember, I am an HD editing newbie) what is wrong with my proposed rig or where I could do better (with a budget of approx € 3,500 ex VAT).  Since i am open to suggestions, would you care to expand a little?

                     

                    Many thanks in advance.

                     

                    Bill.

                    • 7. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                      Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      I am not implying anything is wrong with your selections (of course we have not seen the final list), I just want you to be comfortable and be aware of a tool that can be used to help you verify that you have your system setup and tuned properly when you get to that point. When data is sent to me I reply either with compliments on a great setup or suggestions on how you might improve your system.  PPBM4 is agreat tool to test your CPU and disk performance. You would be surprised how many people for instance do not tune their brand new OS and need suggestions along that line

                       

                      I am looking into another motherboard right now and it probably is going to be one step up from your UD5, I am very interested in the UD7 because of it's USB3 ports for future use.

                      • 8. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                        Bill Lumbergh Level 1

                        Thanks Bill. Was not intented as any critic towards you (I wouldn't be so presumptious, knowledgeable nor impolite). I thought about the UD7 too, but the main difference I found are the network ports and the SLI/Cross fire option i won't be needing. UD5 also has 2 USB3 ports, the same as UD7.

                         

                        Rgds,

                         

                        Bill

                        • 9. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                          Bill,

                           

                          Some general remarks if I may.

                           

                          SSD boot disk will not help with editing, only with boot time and load time of programs. Currently at around 30 times the price per GB, I find conventional disks a much better bang-for-the-buck.

                           

                          750 W PSU may suffice, unless you opt for a nVidia supported card, in that case upping the wattage to 850 or even more may be wise.

                           

                          Mem: 2x 12 GB Kingston ValueRam Triple Channel 12 GB, PC3-10666, 1333 MHz, 9, Non-ECC

                           

                          How do you intend to fit them in? You only have 6 slots, so the most economical approach would be to go for 12 GB. OCZ Platinum would be my choice with 1333 speed and CAS 7.

                           

                          Consider Win7 Pro instead of Ultimate, unless you really need bitlocker.

                           

                          The i7-980X is quite a bit faster than the i7-930, but you pay a premium price for it.

                          • 10. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                            Bill Lumbergh Level 1

                            Thanks Harm,

                             

                            I will buy an SDD boot disk for general PC usage anyway. In my book, bang for buck is irrelevant compared to the leap in startup performance. But thanks to you and the others who have been so kind as to help me foreward, I will take a 2 HDD raid 0 setup over an additional SSD for the HD source material.

                             

                            UTP/Video card: Unless you advise otherwise, I will stay with the Ati cards that have directx 11,  Eyefinity and AtiStream (who knows, might be usfeful in the near future). The reason I prefer the x750 so much over the new series of 850 (Corsair?) which are 80+ too is the fact that I want a quiet PC. Wth the Seasonic, when not editing, you have a noiseless UTP under light load. The UTP fan is only activated at 25% and above usage, and deactivated when it drops down the 25% threshold again.

                             

                            Mem: I originally planned to take the 12 GB 1333 cas 7 OCZ which is available at a very attractive price, but it exists in a kit of 6 only (or am I misinformed there?). The Kingston Value RAM is available in a kit of 3, allowing for 2 kits of 12 GB.. However, I changed my shopping basket replacing the Value RAM for the Kingston HyperX Triple Channel 24 GB, 1600 MHz, 9, Non-ECC,  Kit Of 6. This is more expensive, but it isn't Value RAM as per the suggestion of Chris (though I have never experienced any trouble with Value RAM as long as you do not plan to overclock). I don't really care too much for the new set being 1600 MHZ, but it is the only one available at the store I plan to buy the entire rig from (don't want to order from different stores).

                             

                            Proc: Alternatively, I could switch to 12 GB 1333 RAM in a kit of 3 and a 980x which is more or less price neutral compared to 24 GB 1600 RAM and 930? Also thought about waiting for the new EVGA board (soon to be released) with 12 mem slots, allowing for up to 48 GB for future use. Would that be wise?

                             

                            Win7: Thanks, I will switch to pro version which I think I can get at a good price too.

                             

                            Best regards,

                             

                            Bill

                            • 11. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                              Scott Chichelli Level 3

                              not getting a Cuda card is rather foolish at this point for

                              CS5

                               

                              2 sets of raid 0 is really needed.

                              12gig of ram and a fast CPU is better than 24gig ram and a slower cpu.

                               

                              Scott

                              ADK

                              • 12. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                                Bill Lumbergh Level 1

                                Chris,

                                 

                                Video card: Won't the 5000xxx series of Ati (Ati Stream Technoligy) be just as capable as the CUDA chipsets?

                                 

                                HDD: It will be 2 sets Raid0. In my prior post I only referred to the source/read/media side. There will be a 2 disk Raid0 on the output side as well.

                                 

                                Proc: I agree. the 980x it is then.

                                 

                                Almost there!

                                 

                                Thanks

                                 

                                rgds,

                                 

                                Bill

                                • 13. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                                  Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  Bill Lumbergh wrote:

                                   

                                  Chris,

                                   

                                  Video card: Won't the 5000xxx series of Ati (Ati Stream Technoligy) be just as capable as the CUDA chipsets?

                                   

                                  Bill,

                                   

                                  Nothing that ATI has will use the new Mercury Playback Engine (MPE) that Adobe has built into Premiere CS5.  It would be a real waste of your money.

                                  • 14. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                                    Bill,

                                     

                                    You have 6 DIMM slots available. If you populate these with 2 G sticks, you end up with 12 G. If you use 4 G sticks, you end up with 24 G. However, the price for a hex pack of 2 G each is around $ 350, whereas a hex pack of 4 G each is around $ 1.400.

                                    • 15. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                                      Bill Lumbergh Level 1

                                      Thanks Chris,

                                       

                                      Did not know of that restriction in CS5. Will switch to NVIDIA.

                                       

                                      Harm, thanks.

                                       

                                      I knew that, but it is against my principles to populate the total of available DIMMs with a minimum or small amount of memory. I am aware of the price tag, but you can never have too much memory (right, microsoft?). Will go for a 3x4 Gb solution with the 980x which is more or less budget neutral compared to 24 Gb + 930.

                                       

                                      Any -final- thoughts on the EVGA board with 12 DIMM slots?

                                       

                                      Thank again to all contributers.

                                       

                                      Rgds,

                                       

                                      Bill

                                      • 16. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                                        Powered by Design Level 4

                                        Is this the EVGA board you were talking about ?

                                         

                                        http://www.evga.com/products/moreInfo.asp?pn=270-WS-W555-A1&family=Motherboard%20Family&se ries=Intel%205520%20Series%20Family

                                         

                                        If so its a Xeon board and wont run the Core i7 980x

                                         

                                        And those 12 DIMM slots are really 6 for each core.

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        Glenn

                                        • 17. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                                          Bill Lumbergh Level 1

                                          Hi Glenn,

                                           

                                          Thanks for clearing that up. At the time (5 months ago) these specs weren't available yet.

                                           

                                          Another question. I notice there are new raptors available, the 600 Gb versions. Although SATAIII is waisted on HDD, would a pair in RAID0 as source/media disk significantly speed things up or is it a waist of money price performance wise (in which case I will stick with the Caviar Blacks)?

                                           

                                          Rgds,

                                           

                                          Bill

                                          • 18. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                                            Bill,

                                             

                                            A raid will definitely speed things up. If you look at the disk configurations of the top 10 - 20 machines in the PPBM4 Benchmark you will see that nearly all have raids and the top 5 machines use relatively large arrays.

                                            • 19. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                                              Bill Lumbergh Level 1

                                              Thanks Harm,

                                               

                                              However, my question may have been a tad unclear. What I meant to ask was: Is a pair of raptors in RAID0 significantly quicker than a pair of Caviar Blacks in RAID0 (intended use: HD source/media read disk for editing)? And how about the price-performace ratio?

                                               

                                              Rgds,

                                               

                                              Bill

                                              • 20. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                Caviar Blacks are not suitable for raid configurations, because of the WDTLER feature. Western Digital Time Limit Error Recovery.

                                                • 21. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                                                  Bill Lumbergh Level 1

                                                  Thanks Harm, that is very, very helpful, wonder why no-one pointed this out before? (just curious) What would you suggest as alternative, go with the Raptors and/or the Sammsung Spinpoints?

                                                  • 22. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                                                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                    The dilemma is the expected fill rate. Two Velociraptors have a capacity of 600 GB, two Spinpoints have 2 TB capacity. If your storage capacity is used for 300 GB or less the Velociraptors will be faster, but if you need more than say 450 GB space, the Spinpoints will be faster, because the fill rate will reduce the performance of the Raptors.

                                                     

                                                    Take into consideration the price and I think I would opt for the Spinpoints.

                                                    • 23. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                                                      Bill Lumbergh Level 1

                                                      Harm,

                                                       

                                                      Great stuff, thanks a million.

                                                       

                                                      Rgds,

                                                       

                                                      Tijs

                                                      • 24. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                                                        Scott Chichelli Level 3

                                                        the new 1TB sata 600 64meg drives are great in raid 0

                                                        • 25. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                                                          Bill Lumbergh Level 1

                                                          Hi Scott, are you referring to Caviar Black (don't know of any other brand matching your specs)? If so, Harm seems to disagree.

                                                           

                                                          Talking Spinpoints,what about the Seagate Barracuda ES 2 750GB as an alternative to the Sammy Spinpoint F1r 1 TB (I need 2x2 raid0, so 4 discs). In terms of capacity, I think 1.5 TB capacity per Raid0 config would be enough for my requirements.

                                                           

                                                          Closing this one, i am ready to order.

                                                           

                                                          Thanks.

                                                           

                                                          Bill

                                                          • 26. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                                                            Scott Chichelli Level 3

                                                            HI Bill,

                                                            yes Caviar Black 1 TB Sata 600 64meg cache

                                                            works perfectly well in raid arrays.

                                                            this is what i do for a living... i might have a clue.

                                                             

                                                            Scott

                                                            ADK

                                                            • 27. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                                                              Bill Lumbergh Level 1

                                                              Scott,

                                                               

                                                              Thanks, was merely pointing out the discrepancy between Harm's reply and yours.Not judging nor contesting your knowledge.

                                                               

                                                              Following your advice, I would have 2x WD 1TB 64GB in RAID0 (to be used as the read/source disk for HD material?).Since the mother board only has 2 SATAIII connections, which pair of SATAII drives would you suggest as write/output drives in RAID0?

                                                               

                                                              Rgds,

                                                               

                                                              Bill

                                                              • 28. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                                                                Scott Chichelli Level 3

                                                                as mentioned before the sata 600 64meg work perfectly fine on Sata 300 conneections

                                                                the difference between the 2 connections (onboard) is nominal. 196 vs 215 MB/s for raid 0

                                                                so it really wont matter.

                                                                i would use 4 total for 2 sets raid 0.

                                                                 

                                                                 

                                                                Scott

                                                                ADK

                                                                • 29. Re: HD video editing PC for a beginner
                                                                  Bill Lumbergh Level 1

                                                                  Ok great, must have missed that part.

                                                                   

                                                                  Thanks a lot Scott.

                                                                   

                                                                  Btw, probably sufficiently know to most already, or you may have better resources, but I'll post it anyways. I found this site to have some nice HDD comparission benchmarks: http://www.storagereview.com/php/benchmark/bench_sort.php (note the drop down box on top)

                                                                   

                                                                  Rgds,

                                                                   

                                                                  Bill