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CS5 can not output MPE to external DV device

People's Champ ,
May 17, 2010 May 17, 2010

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This is quite a surprise for those of us who rely on DV output.

_______________________________________________

Harm Millaard:


"An MPE card stops external monitor viewing."


"The problem is that CUDA does not currently support output
on DV devices, only full screen  second displays (DVI, DisplayPort, etc)."


"...one serious limitation, those who use dual monitors for editing and

a third monitor for full screen display and color grading or that use the

fire wire connection to record DV/HDV back to tape.

Some may think tape is dead, but there are numerous people around

that still like to jeep their final cut on a master tape."


"The basic problem is how to get a DV signal back over firewire for

exporting to tape or display on an external monitor and that currently is a CUDA problem."


"It must be resolved. If not, the introduction of CS5 / MPE as a game changer

can quickly turn into a game stopper.
I think (purely personal opinion)  Adobe and nVidia must correct this ASAP

Otherwise you end up with a SNAFU."

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

LEGEND , May 18, 2010 May 18, 2010

What do you want us to say as CPs?

It's broken, and we, like you, hope it gets fixed soon.

For now, set your projects to software rendering when you need external DV output.  MPE in software mode isn't exactly small potatoes.  It's significantly faster than CS4.

-Jeff

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LEGEND ,
May 17, 2010 May 17, 2010

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Joe,

Before this creates a stampede / panic, this only applies to hardware enabled MPE. If you use CUDA/MPE, the workaround is to switch to software MPE and then everything works as expected. However, switching from hardware to software MPE also means that the timeline may need to be rendered again.

Adobe is aware of the problem and working on it, but they may be dependent on nVidia to solve the driver issues.

We'll just have to wait and see.

My experiences with this bug:

1. Start with hardware MPE, no audio or video on external monitor
2. Change to software MPE, display and audio on external monitor
3. Display on PM.
4. Change back to hardware MPE, frozen display on external monitor and  no sound. Plays OK in PM. When playback is stopped, the external view is  updated.
5. Switch to another application and return to PR, the external view  turns to black on playback.

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People's Champ ,
May 18, 2010 May 18, 2010

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In PPro2 external monitoring wasn't perfect (sync)... but it worked.

In CS4 external monitoring capability took a step backward,
making you choose either desktop or external to the exclusion
of the other...  but it worked.

Now CS5 has added the powerful MPE, which has excluded
external DV monitoring entirely... it simply doesn't work.

Of course, every bug has a workaround.
Sure, if I disable the hallmark feature of the software
I can make it play to an external monitor.

I am not panicked, or stampeding... only VERY disappointed.

This bug is forcing me to dump CS5 from my brand new box,
install CS4, and wait for an update/bug fix.

Any NLE with no capability to output to tape is indeed a bug!

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People's Champ ,
May 18, 2010 May 18, 2010

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I am curious to know if any "Community Professional" or
"Employee" contributors to this forum have any thoughts or input
regarding this very disappointing deficiency before this thread slips
into the oblivion of page two and beyond.

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LEGEND ,
May 18, 2010 May 18, 2010

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What do you want us to say as CPs?

It's broken, and we, like you, hope it gets fixed soon.

For now, set your projects to software rendering when you need external DV output.  MPE in software mode isn't exactly small potatoes.  It's significantly faster than CS4.

-Jeff

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People's Champ ,
May 25, 2010 May 25, 2010

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What do you want us to say as CPs?

It's broken, and we, like you, hope it gets fixed soon.

Thank you Jeff for your acknowledgement that there is a problem.

I gain some reassurance by your reply.

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Community Beginner ,
Aug 06, 2010 Aug 06, 2010

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I have succesfully bypassed the problem by switching MPE to Software only.  Thanks to all for the advice.  Can anyone advise how I will know when Adobe/nVidia have fixed the problem?

J Eaton

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Guest
May 29, 2010 May 29, 2010

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How do I set my projects to software rendering?

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Guest
May 29, 2010 May 29, 2010

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MPE is the Mercury Playback Engine?  MIne is set to software as my video card doesn't support it.  When I export to tape it starts recording but there is no picture or sound.  Am I missing something?  Please help.

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LEGEND ,
May 29, 2010 May 29, 2010

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You are correct, MPE = Mercury Playback Engine.

Hunt

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Guest
May 30, 2010 May 30, 2010

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I am trying to ouput my timeline to mini-dv.  PPro CS5 shows it controls the camera and it says it is recording but I have black video and no sound.  Is there some setting I need to change to get this to work correctly?  I am not sure how the MPE fits into this.

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LEGEND ,
May 30, 2010 May 30, 2010

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With MPE on, there is a problem giving out a DV signal over firewire. For exporting to tape, MPE must be turned to software only.

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Guest
May 30, 2010 May 30, 2010

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Thank you.  I got it to work, what I was missing is setting out the Sequence Playback settings so the video and audio would be output to my DV device instead of the computer.  I am surprised how hard it was for me to find this information but very happy to have it working.

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New Here ,
May 07, 2011 May 07, 2011

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Hi,

I am trying to ouput my timeline to my HVR M15N.  PPro CS5 shows it controls the VCR but I have black video and no sound recorded on the tape.

I heard about MPE but I don't kwnow anything about it. What is it? How and where can I disable it or turn it to software only? I work with an RTX 2 but I think it dosen't matter in this case, right?

Sorry about my english, i'm from Brazil. Please, help.

Thanks

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May 08, 2011 May 08, 2011

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> I heard about MPE but I don't kwnow anything about it. What is it? How and where can I disable it or turn it to software only?

See this page for a full description of the Mercury Playback Engine.

You don't turn it off or disable it. It's a set of intrinsic performance improvements.

You can, however, switch between using CUDA on the GPU to accelerate some things or not. In the the Video Rendering And Playback section of the Project Settings dialog box, choose Mercury Playback Engine GPU Acceleration or Mercury Playback Engine Software Only.

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Community Beginner ,
May 15, 2011 May 15, 2011

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I am not an expert but found I could resolve my problems by opening a new project and towards the bottom of the first screen image is a section named "Video Rendering and Playback". If you select from the drop down list "Mercury Playback Engine Software Only" you may find your problem is resolved. It was for me.

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People's Champ ,
May 15, 2011 May 15, 2011

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Gee whiz!!!  That was really easy!!

Why hasn't anyone thought of that!??

Firewire output of Hardware MPE - I give up

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/840033?tstart=0

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LEGEND ,
May 15, 2011 May 15, 2011

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LATEST

It was all spelled out in post #1 from a year ago.

Disappointing that Adobe still has not solved the issue, despite numerous feature requests.

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Contributor ,
Mar 09, 2011 Mar 09, 2011

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Any news on this?

For me it's practically useless feature, as I'm using HDV/DV recorder for output, so MPE GPU is always disabled.

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People's Champ ,
Mar 09, 2011 Mar 09, 2011

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Any news on this?

Nope.

For me it's practically useless feature, as I'm using HDV/DV recorder for output, so MPE GPU is always disabled.

If you want to use two monitors for the application, and don't want to use

a third-party card (and sequence preset) for monitoring, you are stuck.

I have resigned myself to always working without MPE.

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Explorer ,
May 25, 2010 May 25, 2010

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I've managed to set up an acceptable system (for my needs anyway) using the MPE.

Using two quadro fx3800 graphics cards, although I'm not sure whether you need the secondary card to be the same as your primary CUDA one. This should work with any decent secondary graphics card on a suitable workstation (I think!).

My primary FX3800 card outputs to one monitor for the program and one preview out (via a dvi/vga to s-video converter box) to my CRT broadcast monitor.

Then my secondary card outputs my second monitor display for my dual screen setup. essentially its a three screen setup as my crt is always displaying part of my desktop until Premiere previews through it. This is actually more useful for me as it gets more use than previously through firewire, As I can make use of it when not using Premiere or AE.

Then If I need to export to tape I'll have to switch to software renderer but hopefully that will change in the future.

Initially I tried to preview out to my CRT through my secondary FX3800 but I was dropping frames (on the preview monitor not the program monitor) so I assume that MPE is only working on the primary card as theres no sli support for this card on my system.

So for me this is a stellar improvement over CS4 so I can't complain too much, still hoping Adobe/Nvidia will fix the firewire out soon though!

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Explorer ,
Aug 07, 2010 Aug 07, 2010

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In CS3, I found that moving the program panel to another display and making it large

as the "program video" was not workable.

At this point, with CS5, I've tried it and it works.  I can have my UI program panel on my 30" display AND use my AJA Kona card, wheras with the external device setting, it was obviously one or the other.

For the DV people, my suggestion is try simply dragging the program panel out to a display and see if that works for you...

That way your external device drives the whatever it is on the end of your FW cable, and you free up the UI space the program monitor panel was taking up on top of it.

It seems to work for me (though I don't have a DV device to test it with...)

I'll probably be altering most of my 4 display workspaces to this method and trying it for a while...

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Participant ,
Aug 08, 2010 Aug 08, 2010

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The first post about this CS5 bug was in May.  It is now Augusut and still no fix? 

Every time I'm about to place my order for CS5, I find out about another "gotcha' problem.  I'm still on CS3 and am seriously wondering whether I should continue to move forward with Premiere.

I still use an older "DPS Velocity Quattrus" system and it still leaves Premiere in the dust.  Unfortunately Harris, who bought Leitch/who bought DPS, has discontinued the product.  A software developer from Itlay is attempting to breathe life into it (ivsEdits.com), but it isn't a fully operational system.

Yes, "Firrewire" output is still a Big Deal.  There are many of us who use our editing systems as a business tool.  Going back and disabling the Mercury Engine, then re-rendering as "software only" is a waste of my time.

Come On, Adobe & Nvidia, get this fixed!

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Enthusiast ,
Aug 08, 2010 Aug 08, 2010

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For DV(CAM) work I have found out you don't need the MPE on my i7 980X machine.

It provides real time editing even with multiple tracks and effects.

Correct me if I am wrong but the MPE is optimized for HD work.

In other words, you are safe to upgrade to CS5 from CS3.

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Explorer ,
Aug 08, 2010 Aug 08, 2010

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J Graves wrote:

The first post about this CS5 bug was in May.  It is now Augusut and still no fix? 

Every time I'm about to place my order for CS5, I find out about another "gotcha' problem.  I'm still on CS3 and am seriously wondering whether I should continue to move forward with Premiere.

I still use an older "DPS Velocity Quattrus" system and it still leaves Premiere in the dust.  Unfortunately Harris, who bought Leitch/who bought DPS, has discontinued the product.  A software developer from Itlay is attempting to breathe life into it (ivsEdits.com), but it isn't a fully operational system.

Yes, "Firrewire" output is still a Big Deal.  There are many of us who use our editing systems as a business tool.  Going back and disabling the Mercury Engine, then re-rendering as "software only" is a waste of my time.

Come On, Adobe & Nvidia, get this fixed!

Well...i'd guess that CS5 hold it's own against a system like yours for flexibility...though if the way that card works is in your workflow "sweet spot" then I guess you're probably best served to stay with it.

If you have a system that has the juice to even run CS5, i can't imagine that running a CUDA-augmented system for Mercury is even remotely necessary for editing DV...  as far as using our systems as a business tool...I'm not sure what you're implying.  Most of us who are in the production business -in general- have moved to some form of HD some time ago, most of my peers made the move during CS2...

Are you implying the rest of us aren't professionals, even as you are lobbying for aggressive support of a consumer-oriented I/O configuration?  I hope not.

It's not a bug BTW...it's a configuration that a few people don't like...but when your effects render is out on the display card, that's the way the pipe is routed.  Even HDSDI card manufacturers are finding that pulling those frames back off the display card negates some of the speed gains.

If you have a system that is qualified for it, I think you should download the demo and try it before you assess PPro CS5 any further.  You are making lots of sweeping statements about a piece of software released almost 4 years ago running on a hardware system that was discontinued 4 years ago being better than the newest software running on up-to-date hardware without understanding what its performance is really like...even without a CUDA card.

I can shut off CUDA and rip through DVCProHD like there's no tomorrow on my 3 year old dual dual core AMD...I have to believe you'll be able to -shred- DV on even an average-ish machine by today's standards.

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