1 2 Previous Next 47 Replies Latest reply on Sep 29, 2007 7:06 AM by ˉ˚°º•♪♫ Robert ♫♪•º°˚ˉ

    ImageReady not included with CS3?

    More2Do Level 1
      Greetings—

      I'm disheartened to learn that CS3 does not include ImageReady, which I use on a daily basis to create animated gifs. Does Fireworks fill this void? I've tried vector-based animated gifs via Flash, but the results have alway been very poor.

      I appreciate your comments,
      Jon
        • 1. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
          Level 7
          I too miss IR functionality and have IR CS that I can use to import a
          folder as frames.

          My experience suggests a good combined vector/pixel application such as
          Fireworks makes animated GIFs pretty easier that purely vector or purely
          bitmap apps.

          If all else fails I usually invoke the Gimp (have a look at the pdf on
          http://deebs.diinoweb.com/files/Ideas/ )

          More2Do wrote:
          > Greetings?
          >
          > I'm disheartened to learn that CS3 does not include ImageReady, which I use on
          > a daily basis to create animated gifs. Does Fireworks fill this void? I've
          > tried vector-based animated gifs via Flash, but the results have alway been
          > very poor.
          >
          > I appreciate your comments,
          > Jon
          >
          >
          • 2. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
            Level 7
            More2Do wrote:
            > Greetings?
            >
            > I'm disheartened to learn that CS3 does not include ImageReady, which I use on
            > a daily basis to create animated gifs. Does Fireworks fill this void? I've
            > tried vector-based animated gifs via Flash, but the results have alway been
            > very poor.

            You can, indeed, create animated GIFs in Fireworks. Check out the help
            files.

            --
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            • 3. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
              TnT666
              Yeah, I too was disappointed in the discontinuation of Image Ready with Photoshop, instead now having to get a separate program, especially when it's just for animated gifs.
              A bit of a learning curve to use it as well, and doesn't seem as simple to use so far.

              Even frustrating simple things like making a selection in one frame then you go to the next frame and the selection disappears. Why?
              The only (annoying) solution I see so far is to save the selection and then 'restore' it again when you change to the next frame. So time consuming if you want to work over lots of frames.
              Any other way around this?
              • 4. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                observe5
                In Fireworks you can select the individual object or all of them and choose to distribute across frames. I have to admit that Fireworks is a bit more complicated than Image Ready but it is also more capable, that is why IR was discontinued. If you learn this tool you will find that you might not even touch Photoshop in certain cases when dealing with the web.
                • 5. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                  MonteKrause Level 1
                  Linda, the bottom line is Fireworks is a more complicated application to use for creating what used to be simple in an original, well-designed Adobe application.
                  I am persoanlly disappointed in Adobe discontinuing Image Ready and not including GoLive in the CS3 Web Premium suite. I've never spent so much time browsing the the help files in my life. If I was performing surgery, instead of designing graphics, websites, etc., I would have killed a lot of patients by now.
                  • 6. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                    Level 7
                    Montemedia wrote:

                    > I am persoanlly disappointed in Adobe discontinuing Image Ready and not
                    > including GoLive in the CS3 Web Premium suite.

                    It's not that I'm unsympathetic, but as a long time user of Fireworks, I
                    just can't understand the grief.

                    --
                    Linda Rathgeber [PVII] *Adobe Community Expert-Fireworks*
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                    • 7. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                      Level 1
                      quote:

                      Originally posted by: TnT666
                      Even frustrating simple things like making a selection in one frame then you go to the next frame and the selection disappears. Why?


                      Hey thats interesting. I'm curious, what type of animations you are making that require creating a selection? I would like to learn more about this workflow. Maybe once we learn what you are trying to achieve, we can help ya out.

                      • 8. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                        TnT666 Level 1
                        quote:

                        Originally posted by: Alan Musselman
                        quote:

                        Originally posted by: TnT666
                        Even frustrating simple things like making a selection in one frame then you go to the next frame and the selection disappears. Why?


                        Hey thats interesting. I'm curious, what type of animations you are making that require creating a selection? I would like to learn more about this workflow. Maybe once we learn what you are trying to achieve, we can help ya out.




                        Basically if I want to fill or delete a selection in multiple frames (moreso for deleting). Sometimes you want to flick quickly along through the frames and just hit delete to take that area out, or perhaps tweak the selection a little by adding or subtracting from it. Generally for editing a pre-existing animated gif.
                        • 9. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                          More2Do Level 1
                          Not only is ImageReady not included with CS3, but the cost to replace IR with Fireworks is $350.!!! What a deal.
                          • 10. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                            Level 7
                            More2Do wrote:
                            > Not only is ImageReady not included with CS3, but the cost to replace IR with Fireworks is $350.!!! What a deal.

                            Fireworks is included in the Web premium edition of CS3.


                            --
                            Linda Rathgeber [PVII] *Adobe Community Expert-Fireworks*
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                            • 11. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                              Level 1
                              quote:

                              Originally posted by: TnT666
                              Basically if I want to fill or delete a selection in multiple frames (moreso for deleting). Sometimes you want to flick quickly along through the frames and just hit delete to take that area out, or perhaps tweak the selection a little by adding or subtracting from it. Generally for editing a pre-existing animated gif.


                              Ah ok that makes sense. Maybe there could be a different workflow that would help here. Instead of deleting the area, why not create a rectangle or vector shape and fill it with the color of the background and cover up the area instead of deleting? This way you can just copy and paste it into the next frame and nudge or resize appropriately. Can you paste an animated gif as an example so I can see what you are doing? There are definitely better ways then destroying the bitmap on each frame. I hope that I can help you so you can minimize efforts in case you need to change/update it later. If you feel more comfortable emailing it to me, go for it. ( amusselman@adobe.com )



                              • 12. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                More2Do Level 1
                                Yes, Fireworks is included with CS3 Web Premium, but I also need the Design Premium package—so I'd have to purchase both suites (Web and Design) just for the use of Fireworks—or I can buy a stand alone version of Fireworks for $350. Additionally, Adobe is not offering an upgrade price to Fireworks from ImageReady. Either way you slice it it's a lot of money.
                                • 13. ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                  MonteKrause Level 1
                                  ... whatever you do or say, don't make Linda mad. I hope she doesn't read this.

                                  The intergration between ImageReady and Photoshop used to be very useful and very slick. I also thought ImageReady wrote some great HTML with comprehensive Web standards options. Fireworks just is not the same - it isn't an accurate substitute or replacement for what ImageReady was. I'm not saying Fireworks is a useless application I'm not sure right now where it fits in.
                                  The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away
                                  • 14. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                    More2Do Level 1
                                    I don't mean to step on toes, but Adobe should realize the effect it has on its customers when it suddenly drops products (GoLive, ImageReady) that it's been pushing for years. My productivity and wallet just took a big hit—Adobe just got a little less friendly.
                                    • 15. ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                      MonteKrause Level 1
                                      ... More2Do, That is very much how I feel.

                                      You get in stroke with certain applications and without notice it's been yanked from the product line. I have projects I can no longer edit because ImageReady has been discontinued from the Adobe product line and GoLive was not included in the Web Collection.

                                      Who's idea was this and how did he/she/they come to make those decisions?
                                      • 16. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                        Level 7
                                        I won't argue with you about the html - I don't use html from ANY
                                        graphics app. I use the app for it's primary function - working on
                                        graphics. I can work just as fast or faster in DW to generate my html.

                                        I have been using Photoshop since version 2, and FW since version 1. I
                                        have never found IR to be nearly as intuitive as PS, though. I'm not
                                        app-bashing, just giving you my perspective as someone who uses both
                                        programs regularly.

                                        IR did have more flexibility with slices (being able to custom name auto
                                        slices, for one) and I hope these types of features are incorporated as
                                        the program continues to evolve.

                                        Splitting slices - I guess if it's something you're used to doing, it
                                        would be something you miss. Resizing slices has never been a big deal
                                        to me. I do not know your workflow, but another option is to resize your
                                        one slice to the dimensions you want and then press either CTRL+SHIFT+D
                                        to create a clone of the selected slice or CTRL+ALT+D to create a
                                        duplicate. Then just reposition the slice using the mouse or arrow keys.

                                        FW is a different workflow - and a faster one, if you give yourself a
                                        chance to learn the program. It's more closely akin to AI rather than
                                        Photoshop and it is a unique application in many ways. It is not PS, but
                                        it's not supposed to be. Working with vectors in FW is a dream compared
                                        to vectors in PS. Advanced bitmap editing is one of PS's strongest
                                        features, while FW does decent - but not advanced - bitmap editing. They
                                        are two different programs, FW comes from the vector world and does a
                                        pretty decent job of working with bitmaps. It's a hybrid program and it
                                        does flow differently than a completely bitmap-based app like Photoshop.

                                        You can select slices on the canvas and delete them. I do it all the
                                        time. Just click on the slice (or shift-click to select multiple
                                        slices)and press delete.

                                        You can also select multiple slices - either in the slice layer or on
                                        the canvas and "batch" optimize them. Select them in the same manner as
                                        described above and then use the optimize panel to make your format and
                                        compression settings. If you want to see the result of the optimize
                                        settings, click on the preview tab while you're working.

                                        As for the interface, well, like any dev cycle, there's only so much
                                        time to get things done. I'm sure UI will get a facelift before long, as
                                        it benefits Adobe to have a similar UI for all its apps.

                                        HTH

                                        --
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                                        Montemedia wrote:
                                        > ... whatever you do or say, don't make Linda mad. I hope she doesn't
                                        read
                                        > this. I think she comes from the Macromedia perspective and may not be
                                        > familiar with how smooth the intergration between ImageReady and
                                        Photoshop used
                                        > to be. I also thought ImageReady wrote some great HTML with
                                        comprehensive
                                        > options. Fireworks is not the same - it isn't a good substitute -
                                        I'm not
                                        > saying it's a useless application - it's just not the same. It still
                                        retains
                                        > that funky, sticky Macromedia interface that made many of their
                                        applications so
                                        > frustrating to use - never as intuitive as Adobe apps.
                                        >
                                        > ? ImageReady clearly had a more advanced method of slicing images.
                                        > ? Dividing those slices is a possibility that is not apparent in
                                        Fireworks.
                                        > ? You could also slect a slice easily without deleting part of the
                                        image as
                                        > you do it. Deleting a slice from the "Web Layer" palette is clumsy.
                                        You
                                        > should be able to select it easily from the composition and hit
                                        "delete" or
                                        > choose it from a right-click context menu.
                                        > You could also select multiple slices at once to optimize in batch
                                        form -
                                        > quicker and easier to be more precise with a greater number of
                                        options to
                                        > optimize. ... time to eat dinner ....
                                        >
                                        • 17. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                          MonteKrause Level 1
                                          ... Jim, thanks for the FW tutorial and the insight into the Adobe think tank.
                                          • 18. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                            Level 7
                                            Montemedia wrote:
                                            > ... Jim, thanks for the FW tutorial and the insight into the Adobe think tank.

                                            You're welcome. I hope it was helpful.

                                            --
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                                            • 19. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                              MonteKrause Level 1
                                              yes, Jim, very helpful.
                                              But, if I may, let me make a final comment and a suggestion to Adobe.
                                              It is my opinion Adobe clearly undervalued the merits of ImageReady and did little to compensate for the loss of many of it's superb (my opinion) capabilities. Its absence from CS3 has upset the workflow of the many devoted users. My suggestion to Adobe would be to reissue/revamp ImageReady, as the "Save for Web and Devices" application and it would make that aspect of Photoshop much better.
                                              • 20. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                                More2Do Level 1
                                                Montemedia—

                                                I agree completely—reissue ImageReady! No matter what Adobe says, Fireworks is no ImageReady.
                                                • 21. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                                  numbertwosuperguy Level 1
                                                  I was 'coerced' into using Fireworks by the senior web designer at my last company. There were so many similarities to Photoshop but so many new or just 'different' things.

                                                  After I got used to it, I realised he was right. For web 'generation' work, I use Fireworks to replace Photoshop entirely. I never used Image Ready, as it seemed a joke to use two apps where one did it all.

                                                  However, I've met a lot of resistance trying to convince other hardened Photoshop users to invest the time to re-learn their main tool.

                                                  And this was 3 versions ago.
                                                  • 22. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                                    Level 7
                                                    More2Do wrote:
                                                    > Montemedia?
                                                    >
                                                    > I agree completely?reissue ImageReady! No matter what Adobe says,
                                                    > Fireworks is no ImageReady.

                                                    Thank God for that!

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                                                    • 23. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                                      MonteKrause Level 1
                                                      ... so, where are we?

                                                      A week later and this string is still alive. I see NUMBERTWOSUPERGUY has jumped into the mix. I ask, what is it going to take to be NUMBERONESUPERGUY? In passing, you mentioned your last job. So tell us, how come you keep getting fired?

                                                      This whole thing seems to be going nowhere so I'm thinking we need a battle cry. How about: "ImageReady Forever!" or "Remember ImageReady!"
                                                      • 24. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                                        Level 7
                                                        Where did you want it to go? Remember, you are not communicating with Adobe
                                                        here.

                                                        --
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                                                        "Montemedia" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                                        news:fcevui$p6o$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                        > ... so, where are we?
                                                        >
                                                        > A week later and this string is still alive. I see NUMBERTWOSUPERGUY has
                                                        > jumped into the mix. I ask, what is it going to take to be
                                                        > NUMBERONESUPERGUY?
                                                        > In passing, you mentioned your last job. So tell us, how come you keep
                                                        > getting fired?
                                                        >
                                                        > This whole thing seems to be going nowhere so I'm thinking we need a
                                                        > battle
                                                        > cry. How about: "ImageReady Forever!" or "Remember ImageReady!"
                                                        >


                                                        • 25. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                                          MonteKrause Level 1
                                                          *ACE* said: "...you are not communicating with Adobe here.
                                                          *ACE*, I know - I know! I'm just not myself and I've said all I'm going to say on the topic.
                                                          • 26. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                                            Level 7
                                                            Dear broken-hearted :)

                                                            Have you asked Adobe directly about the bits of IR that are missing?

                                                            Montemedia wrote:
                                                            > *ACE* said: "...you are not communicating with Adobe here.
                                                            > *ACE*, I know - I know! I'm just not myself and I've said all I'm going to say on the topic.
                                                            • 27. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                                              numbertwosuperguy Level 1
                                                              Is any ImageReady user brave enough to mention what part of their work flow is broken?
                                                              Only becuase then FireWorks users may be able to suggest how to approach it in this new software that they're all being forced to (re)learn...
                                                              (I do agree with the principle that BOTH should have been included by Adobe!)
                                                              • 28. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                                                Level 1
                                                                Fireworks was never meant to be a replacement for Image Ready and never will. Fireworks will only get better at handling PSDs where PS users will feel comfortable in Fireworks. An average Fireworks user is not dependent on Photoshop.

                                                                For IR users that would like to try Fireworks, please post questions with a workflow that you are used to in IR and we can try and help find a workflow in Fireworks that fits.
                                                                • 29. ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                                                  MonteKrause Level 1
                                                                  ... I've been pretty outspoken about how slicing and optimizing images, JavaScript buttons, and GIF animations were all easier for me in IR. I'd been using IR since version 5.5 of Photoshop - which I've been using since version 4.0. I thought it was great and I thought it wrote very good XHTML with spendid, easy to manipulate CSS properties. It worked very well for me.

                                                                  I've had to turn off Vista Aero just to make keep tools in both Fireworks and Flash from performing sluggishly - which reminds me ...

                                                                  *** Note/ Hey kids, CS3 Flash and Fireworks and perhaps Dreamweaver also will perform more smoothly if you turn off the visual effects associated with Vista Aero - use "Windows Standard" visual settings to achieve more compatible performance when using those former Macromedia applications. It made all the difference in the world on my well-equipped computer. /End Note***

                                                                  *** COMMENT/ I equate Adobe purchasing Macromedia to Daimler Benz (Mercedes) purchasing Chrysler. /End Comment ***
                                                                  • 30. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                                                    Level 7
                                                                    Alan Musselman wrote:
                                                                    > Fireworks was never meant to be a replacement for Image Ready and never will.
                                                                    > Fireworks will only get better at handling PSDs where PS users will feel
                                                                    > comfortable in Fireworks. An average Fireworks user is not dependent on
                                                                    > Photoshop.

                                                                    Very well said Alan. My work flow is indeed not dependent on Photoshop
                                                                    at all and hasn't been for nearly 10 years now. I only use Photoshop
                                                                    when I have some heavy photographic images manipulations to do, remove
                                                                    noise from my digital camera's shots and things of the sort. For any
                                                                    actual Web design and layout work, I use Fireworks.

                                                                    > For IR users that would like to try Fireworks, please post questions with a
                                                                    > workflow that you are used to in IR and we can try and help find a workflow in
                                                                    > Fireworks that fits.

                                                                    Exactly. Without specifics, no one here can help.

                                                                    --
                                                                    Stéphane Bergeron
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                                                                    • 31. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                                                      MonteKrause Level 1
                                                                      Alan, if Fireworks was not meant as a replacement for Image Ready why was Fireworks added to the CS3 lineup? I don't need another image application Illustrator and Photoshop along with Image Ready had it covered.
                                                                      • 32. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                                                        Level 7
                                                                        Montemedia wrote:
                                                                        > Alan, if Fireworks was not meant as a replacement for Image Ready why was
                                                                        > Fireworks added to the CS3 lineup? I don't need another image application
                                                                        > Illustrator and Photoshop along with Image Ready had it covered.

                                                                        Maybe but Fireworks does all of it in one efficient and streamlined
                                                                        environment without the need to move around 3 separate apps. To me, it's
                                                                        a huge work flow advantage.

                                                                        --
                                                                        Stéphane Bergeron
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                                                                        blog : tutorials : articles : gallery
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                                                                        • 33. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                                                          More2Do Level 1
                                                                          I use IR for creating animated gif and the results are superior. The problem with Fireworks is it's vector-based and it produces poorer quailty gifs. Why do we need vector-based aplications for the web anyway?
                                                                          • 34. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                                                            MonteKrause Level 1
                                                                            ... so I guess Adobe should drop Illustrator and Photoshop and just go with Fireworks.
                                                                            • 35. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                                                              pixlor Level 4
                                                                              quote:

                                                                              Originally posted by: More2Do
                                                                              I use IR for creating animated gif and the results are superior. The problem with Fireworks is it's vector-based and it produces poorer quailty gifs. Why do we need vector-based aplications for the web anyway?

                                                                              It's a workflow argument: you use vector shapes so that, if you change your mind about the position, size, or color of an object, it's easy to change. If all you had was a bitmap, you'd have to start again from scratch. When you have your design the way you want it, then you export to the Web format that is most appropriate for the content of the image.

                                                                              Fireworks has more than one palette mapping for gifs, so experiment to see what works best for you. You can also experiment with the anti-aliasing of objects. Finally, you can always create bitmaps and use those in your animated gif, rather than vector objects.

                                                                              • 36. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                                                                Level 7
                                                                                Montemedia wrote:
                                                                                > ... so I guess Adobe should drop Illustrator and Photoshop and just go with Fireworks.

                                                                                There you go trolling again, Montemedia. If you have a complaint, submit
                                                                                a report.

                                                                                http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                                                                                This is a user to user forum, heavily weighted toward folks very loyal
                                                                                to Fireworks and their old friend, Macromedia. Such comments are not
                                                                                welcome here.

                                                                                --
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                                                                                • 37. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                                                                  Level 7
                                                                                  More2Do wrote:
                                                                                  > I use IR for creating animated gif and the results are superior. The problem
                                                                                  > with Fireworks is it's vector-based and it produces poorer quailty gifs. Why do
                                                                                  > we need vector-based aplications for the web anyway?

                                                                                  May we see some of those superior animated GIFs of yours?

                                                                                  --
                                                                                  Linda Rathgeber [PVII] *Adobe Community Expert-Fireworks*
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                                                                                  • 38. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                                                                    Level 7
                                                                                    More2Do wrote:
                                                                                    > I use IR for creating animated gif and the results are superior. The problem
                                                                                    > with Fireworks is it's vector-based and it produces poorer quailty gifs. Why do
                                                                                    > we need vector-based aplications for the web anyway?
                                                                                    >

                                                                                    FW is a vector/raster hybrid, with its roots in the vector world. The
                                                                                    goal with the app was to help workflow for web graphics by reducing the
                                                                                    amount of time spent running graphics through two or more other
                                                                                    applications. I've been working with PS since 2.5, Fireworks since its
                                                                                    inception. They are both great tools but they are NOT the same tool.
                                                                                    Much like Stephane, I will use PS for heavy bitmap editing or working
                                                                                    with Hi-rez images destined for printing. I use FW for web mock ups,
                                                                                    interface design and most any other screen/web graphic needs.

                                                                                    Vectors are very handy for creating a great deal of interface elements.
                                                                                    I came from the bitmap world and I'm not ashamed to admit that I cut my
                                                                                    teeth on vectors by using Fireworks.

                                                                                    As gifs compress better with images of solid color (such as vectors) I'm
                                                                                    curious to know your for criteria for superior quality. There may indeed
                                                                                    be a workflow or optimization setting you have missed in FW that could
                                                                                    solve your problem.

                                                                                    --
                                                                                    Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
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                                                                                    http://www.communityMX.com/
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                                                                                    • 39. Re: ImageReady not included with CS3?
                                                                                      Level 7
                                                                                      "Montemedia" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                                                                      news:fcp4j4$5aa$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                                      > ... I've been pretty outspoken about how slicing and optimizing images,
                                                                                      > JavaScript buttons, and GIF animations were all easier for me in IR.

                                                                                      With the sometimes exception of "slicing and optimizing", the tasks you
                                                                                      mentioned are archaic in terms of modern web development practices.


                                                                                      --
                                                                                      Al Sparber - PVII
                                                                                      http://www.projectseven.com
                                                                                      Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets
                                                                                      Authors: "42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design"


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