18 Replies Latest reply on May 23, 2010 5:13 AM by able123

    1440x1080 scaling down - widescreen?

    Limon26 Level 1

      Premiere Pro cs4,

       

      Hi....working with some video I got.  The size is 1440x1080.

       

      I need to scale down for standard definition.  So, when I create my premiere project, do I create a

      DV-NTSC Widescreen 48kHz sequence?  I tried that and when I scale down the video 46%, it seems to fit.

       

      When I create a DV-NTSC Standard 48kHz sequence, and scale down, black bars show up on the top

      and bottom, obviously b/c of the size.

       

      My question is, if I make it the DV-NTSC Widescreen 48kHz sequence so no video gets cut off,

      what will the end user see on a standard definition tv?  will they see black bars at the top and bottom?

       

      Is that acceptable or normal?

        • 1. Re: 1440x1080 scaling down - widescreen?
          Kobi_Sargeant Level 1

          They will see whatever they see when they play a typical commercial DVD - this will depend on how they have set up the output on their DVD player (letterbox? pan-and-scan? etc).

           

          (Just so you know ... 1440x1080 plays back as 16:9 video because it has non-square pixels.    Both Standard DVD and Widescreen DVD are 720x480 ... with the latter playing back as 16:9 widescreen because, again, it has non-square pixels).

          • 2. Re: 1440x1080 scaling down - widescreen?
            shooternz Level 6

            Consider yourself as the end user.

             

            Sometimes these things are worth a simple test.

             

            The test will inform you as well as get the project out how you wish it to be seen.

             

            Problem is that you have to acknowledge that sometimes it depends on how your end-user has their playback set up.  There is no way around that.

            • 3. Re: 1440x1080 scaling down - widescreen?
              Limon26 Level 1

              So bascially what I'm trying to understand is why does it have non-square pixels?

              Is my only option to make a widescreen standard dvd, so I don't cut anything off of the video?

              • 4. Re: 1440x1080 scaling down - widescreen?
                Harm Millaard Level 7
                So bascially what I'm trying to understand is why does it have non-square pixels?

                 

                Because that is defined in the specifications.

                • 5. Re: 1440x1080 scaling down - widescreen?
                  Level 4

                  Hi,

                  I recently edited dv avi sd 720x480 16:9 and put on DVD for someone. They have a newer TV and DVD player than I do...they have digital , I have an old TV ( analog ) and old DVD player ( not HD ).

                   

                  Playing the DVD I made from a project that was standard ntsc 48k sound preset on my computer and his TV was 16:9...and being "widescreen" sorta devices ( his TV and the computer screen ...also widescreen digital ) showed OK.  But on my old TV it was cropped to 4:3....and filled the whole screen....so I was not seeing the left and right frame ends...it was cropped...

                   

                  Putting the project into a 4:3 standard preset and "scaling" the whole video timeline to that space....made the video export to DVD with black bars on top and bottom but I could now see the whole frame on my old TV....was no longer cropped and LOOKED like " letterbox "...on my old TV...

                   

                  So, that's what these guys are saying basically about the experiment with the end users setup ( type of tv etc )...

                   

                  good luck

                   

                   

                   

                  Rod

                  • 6. Re: 1440x1080 scaling down - widescreen?
                    Limon26 Level 1

                    So as you said, widescreen and standard DVD both playback at 720x480, is confusing to me?

                     

                    This is the process I have set up, can you let me know if I'm doing the right steps.

                     

                    1.  I bring my 1440x1080 footage into my premiere widescreen sequence

                    2.  I scale it down 46%, (nothing gets cut off)

                    3.  I use dynamic link to bring it into encore.

                    4.  When I bring it into Encore, there are the black bars on the top and bottom.

                     

                    My questions is, is there anything wrong with that?  If i didn't want to have widescreen

                    video, is there anyway to do that with 1440x1080 video?

                     

                    Because when I start back and premiere and created an SD sequence to bring my 1440x1080

                    footage into, I scale it down to 46% and it gets cut off.  It doesn't seem to be possible...

                     

                    Is that correct? Or am i missing something...?

                     

                    Sorry, still trying to understand

                    • 7. Re: 1440x1080 scaling down - widescreen?
                      Level 4

                      You're bringing it to encore but you're not buring the DVD yet right?? ...so burn one and look at it maybe...see what YOUR TV display looks like when you play the DVD.  For me ...with an OLD TV...I had to do a 4:3 project to force the 16:9 into by scaling....

                       

                      So basically I made a DVD for the client ( 16:9 ) and one for ME..with an old TV... ( 4:3)....and then I could see the whole frame without cropping.

                       

                      See what I mean?  But that's just my own little project recently that I worked on..maybe others have had other experiences....

                       

                       

                       

                      Rod

                      • 8. Re: 1440x1080 scaling down - widescreen?
                        Limon26 Level 1

                        That's fine, I can burn one now and look at it, but I need to know if my process is correct?

                        I'm only making 1 DVD to distribute to a wide group of people, about 60. 

                         

                        So.......I really didn't want to do widescreen, but I need to know if that is my only

                        option since the original footage is 1440x1080?

                        • 9. Re: 1440x1080 scaling down - widescreen?
                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                          Essentially yes. You start with 16 x 9, so keep it that way.

                          • 10. Re: 1440x1080 scaling down - widescreen?
                            Limon26 Level 1

                            Ok, so because the videographer shot in 1440x1080, that's why I have to make a widescreen dvd?

                            Just checking to make sure I know what to say when someone questions why it's widescreen...?

                            • 11. Re: 1440x1080 scaling down - widescreen?
                              Harm Millaard Level 7

                              Yeah, unless you want to distort or crop the video. People with a modern widescreen TV will enjoy the black borders enormously, in combination with the distorted image.

                               

                              When buying a commercial Hollywood DVD, do you ever ask for a 4 x 3  version when all they have is widescreen?

                              • 12. Re: 1440x1080 scaling down - widescreen?
                                Limon26 Level 1

                                Ha!  I think I see what you are saying, basically it is what it is. 

                                I will keep it 16:9 so nothing gets cut off.

                                 

                                Now....do you think there was a reason it was shot in widescreen?

                                Maybe just the videographers preference?  Or is that more of a standard now?

                                • 13. Re: 1440x1080 scaling down - widescreen?
                                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                                  HDV is widescreen by definition and it is more or less the standard today.

                                  • 14. Re: 1440x1080 scaling down - widescreen?
                                    Limon26 Level 1

                                    Ok, I appreciate your answers.  When I import the video via dynamic link into encore, I have 2 options...dvd and blue ray,

                                    since i'm choosing dvd, but is there a place to specify that it is widescreen?

                                    • 15. Re: 1440x1080 scaling down - widescreen?
                                      Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      Once in Encore, you can mix 4:3 and 16:9, but in your case you don't need to: your movies will be 16:9 and your menus should match.  But this is not a project setting, since the DVD specs and Encore allow you to mix them.

                                       

                                      It will also help you to read some more about this.  These answers may leave you with some misconceptions because you are asking fairly specific questions and are missing some of the background.    Here for Encore (found CS5 first):  http://help.adobe.com/en_US/encore/cs/using/WSE5BEA26E-E238-44b1-8196-7FD4EC8DD3F1a.html  Here re pixel sizes and PAR (found CS4 first): http://help.adobe.com/en_US/PremierePro/4.0/WS03BF7479-8C7B-4522-8C75-210AD102524Ea.html#W S082E922A-A5D7-4de1-9A0E-1EFC401EA6D1

                                       

                                      For example, you were told that it is widescreen because it has nonsquare pixels.  That is true, but the "regular" shape (4:3) also has nonsquare pixels - they are just different rectangular proportions.  Some of the HD formats use square pixels.  The main point: there is no simple rule of thumb: know the options and be sure you know what you have and what your final delivery is to be.

                                       

                                      I agree with the answer you have been given about whether you can make widescreen (16:9) video into 4:3.  (You can, but you have to crop it or letterbox it.)  And then all your widescreen capable viewers will miss the original content.

                                       

                                      So many people now have widescreen, that I see no reason to lock your DVD into a 4:3 shape, so yes, stay with the wide screen.

                                       

                                      When I provide wide screen DVDs to a customer, I provide a label that says "widescreen," and a link to my website (http://www.videoandcomputer.com/faq.htm) that has an explanation for how to set up your DVD player.

                                       

                                      The problem Rod describes (his DVD player 4:3 TV combination won't play a widescreen correctly) is less and less common.  It does not matter thatit is an analogue or older TV.  The setup is in the DVD player.  And you've really got to have an old DVD player for it not to have a setup that tells it what kind of TV it is hooked to.  That is a manual setting.   If you set the DVD player to "4:3 TV" the DVD player will know to letterbox when it sends out a widescreen video to the TV.

                                      • 16. Re: 1440x1080 scaling down - widescreen?
                                        Limon26 Level 1

                                        I really appreciate your response.  I'm starting to understand better.

                                        So when I make my encore menu in photoshop, I will make it 720x480,

                                        and under advanced, turn the pixel aspect ratio to: D1/Dv NTSC Widescreen (1.21)  correct?

                                         

                                        I like the idea of putting the widescreen label on the disc.

                                         

                                        Also, if I was to leave the original video size at 1440x1080, it would still be widescreen, correct,

                                        therefore, you would still put the widescreen label on the disc?  Would you also then put an HD

                                        label on the disc?

                                         

                                        Thanks again!

                                        • 17. Re: 1440x1080 scaling down - widescreen?
                                          Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          So when I make my encore menu in photoshop, I will make it 720x480,

                                          and under advanced, turn the pixel aspect ratio to: D1/Dv NTSC Widescreen (1.21)  correct?

                                          Yes, although I like the method of taking a template menu NTSC Widescreen and edit from there.

                                           

                                          Also, if I was to leave the original video size at 1440x1080, it would still be widescreen, correct,

                                          therefore, you would still put the widescreen label on the disc?  Would you also then put an HD

                                          label on the disc?

                                          No, HD is all widescreen, and anyone with a Bluray player and an HD TV is not going to need either of those alerts.

                                          • 18. Re: 1440x1080 scaling down - widescreen?
                                            Level 4

                                            Just a note:  Stan is right about the instances of my own old TV and DVD setup being pretty rare these days...I have a pre-historic setup...very very old DVD and TV...But it's nice to know that even for my old setup it is possible to force the widescreen into letterbox "shape" within the 4:3 space...

                                             

                                            Let us know how it turns out for you

                                             

                                            Rod