23 Replies Latest reply on Aug 23, 2010 1:52 PM by the_wine_snob

    No Audio when capturing from camcorder

    hmaela

      Problem summary:
      When capturing, in order to create a backup of MiniDV cassettes, from camcorder to Premiere Elements 2.0, NO audio is captured, i.e audio timeline flat and the AVI-files created are without sound.

      The cassettes were originally recorded by exporting edited video to camcorder from the PC, using Elements 2.0. The camcorder used when at the time of exporting, was a Sony DCR-PC120

      Current camcorder used is a Sony DCR-HC62, as the PC120 was lost some time ago.

      Easy problem solving tried so far:
      When playing the cassettes on the DCR-HC62, the sound is OK.
      The HC62 is working fine; i.e. I can record and capture new video, with audio, through my firewire connection.

      Potential cause:
      I remember that I played around with the sound formats (from 12 bits to 16 bits, and potentially back again…) at some point in time; timing wise (2007-2008) this can coincide with the period from which sound no longer is able to be captured. Hence, I have a feeling that this can be the cause.

       

      Now some more detailed system details (and for you experts out there, please bear with me…):

      -          hp Compaq dc7600 Convertible, Intel ®Pentium ® 4 CPU 3.20 GHz 2.77 GHz, 1.00 GB of RAM

      -          Microsoft Windows XP, Professional, ver. 2002, Service pack 3

      -          Realtek High Definition Audio, Driver date; 30.04.2010. Driver version; 5.10.0.6101

      -          WDM Video For Windows Capture Driver (Win32)

      -          2 x Samsung HD 166JJ drives:

      o   C:\ 145 GB, 7.2 GB free – System and program files

      o   D:\149 GB, 6.24 GB free – files archives and Adobe 2.0 folder for captured video

       

      HELP, please.....

       

      Håvard

       

       

       

       

        • 1. Re: No Audio when capturing from camcorder
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          Since FireWire Capture in PrE is a byte-for-byte transfer of the data on the miniDV tape, if you have Audio in the camera, as you indicate, there should not be an issue. PrE does nothing to the file.

           

          Now, you have done the Capture in PrE via FireWire, so you have the DV-AVI files on your HDD (Hard Disk Drive). It seems that it's PrE, that is not getting the muxed (Multiplexed) Audio. First two things that I would do is to test play the file(s) in a player program, like VLC, MediaPlayer Classic HC, or Windows Media Player - do you get Audio there?

           

          Second, download and install the great, free utility, G-SPOT, and drag one of those DV-AVI files to it. G-Spot will tell you all about the Audio and Video. You can post a screen-cap of the program GUI w/ that file Open, and we can see the details.

           

          Here is what your screen-cap should look like:

          G-Spot_Screen_01.jpg

          This will tell us all about the resultant Captured file.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: No Audio when capturing from camcorder
            Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

            Also, check two things:

             

            1) Does this camcorder record to more than two tracks -- i.e., include a "dubbing" track? Sometimes audio recorded to the dubbing track does not transfer during capture.

             

            2) Ensure that the audio in your camcorder is set to 12-bit stereo, 48000 sampling. Sometimes non-standard settings can't be read by Premiere Elements.

            • 3. Re: No Audio when capturing from camcorder
              the_wine_snob Level 9
              2) Ensure that the audio in your camcorder is set to 12-bit stereo, 48000 sampling. Sometimes non-standard settings can't be read by Premiere Elements.

               

              Steve,

               

              Do you mean 16-bit 48KHz?

               

              Usually, the 12-bit is for the dubbing Track, and is often at 32KHz.

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: No Audio when capturing from camcorder
                Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                Oops! Yes, thanks, Hunt!


                • 5. Re: No Audio when capturing from camcorder
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  Hey, it's early, even in the Central Time Zone!

                   

                  Off for my second cup of coffee... later,

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: No Audio when capturing from camcorder
                    hmaela Level 1

                    Gentlemen,

                     

                    Coffee sounds great, also for a Norwegian after som hours outside enjoying the Italian countryside on a sunny day...

                     

                     

                    Thanks for helping out!

                     

                     

                    Here's my response to your first Qs.

                     

                    1) …test play the file(s) in a player program, like VLC, MediaPlayer Classic HC, or Windows Media Player - do you get Audio there?

                    hmaela; Tested a file using VLC, still no audio.

                     

                     

                    2) Download and install the great, free utility, G-SPOT, and drag one of those DV-AVI files to it. G-Spot will tell you all about the Audio and Video. You can post a screen-cap of the program GUI w/ that file Open, and we can see the details.

                    hmaela: Here is what my screen-cap looks like:

                    GSpot.png

                     

                    3) Does this camcorder record to more than two tracks -- i.e., include a "dubbing" track? Sometimes audio recorded to the dubbing track does not transfer during capture.

                     

                    hmaela: As far as I can tell it records only to Audio 1 track.

                     

                     

                    4) Ensure that the audio in your camcorder is set to 16-bit stereo, 48000 sampling. Sometimes non-standard settings can't be read by Premiere Elements.

                    hmaela: it is set at 16-bit in "record mode. I don't know if there is a way to set this for "playback mode" as well? Whether or not it is in“stereo” and at “48 000 Hz”, I cannot determine . However the GSpot indicates stereo and 32 000 Hz.

                     

                    Håvard

                    • 7. Re: No Audio when capturing from camcorder
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      OK, it is 32KHz, but usually PrE can handle that by Conforming the Audio to CFA & PEK (Waveform Display). However, if you are doing the Capture and getting this, I am curious as to why, because with a PAL-DV Project, you should have the Audio set to 48KHz 16-bit, so that 32KHz sample rate puzzles me.

                       

                      Also, back in G-Spot, in the Audio box, you will see three buttons, with only one at a time clickable. Click on the 1 button, and you should get the 2 button to Render, then the 3 button to play. What happens when you click through these?

                       

                      Also, can you verify your Project Preset, especially the choice of Audio?

                       

                      Good luck,

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: No Audio when capturing from camcorder
                        hmaela Level 1

                        Hunt,

                         

                        In GSpot, I'm not able to choose the 2 or 3 stream. Only #1 is "active".

                         

                        As regards the Project Settings, General, I hope you're referring to the below, where audio is at 48 000Hz.:

                         

                        Gspot2.png

                         

                        Håvard

                        • 9. Re: No Audio when capturing from camcorder
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          In G-Spot, when you press the 1 button, the 2 button should then be available, and after you press it, in a moment the 3 button should be available. If not, then something is very wrong with the file.

                           

                          That screen-cap shows just what I wanted to see. What I cannot understand is how your Captured file is ending up with the 32KHz Audio, as it should match the Project Preset.

                           

                          I cannot recall right now, but did you post the camera's make/model and the Audio recording settings that are in use now? If not, please add that info.

                           

                          Good luck,

                           

                          Hunt

                           

                          [Edit] I see the current camera's make/model: Sony DCR-HC62. Will look for its Audio recording specs.

                           

                          Message was edited by: Bill Hunt - Added [Edit]

                          • 10. Re: No Audio when capturing from camcorder
                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                            OK, looks like it records in 12 or 16-bit. My guess is that you have it set to "dubbing mode," yielding a 12-bit 32KHz Audio stream.

                             

                            I would set it to 16-bit 48KHz PCM/WAV for the future.

                             

                            Now, you obviously have tapes, that have Audio. I would change the workflow slightly, and for those files, use an audio-editor, like the free Audacity, to rip the Audio from the muxed AV file. Then, do a Save_As, choosing 16-bit 48KHz PCM/WAV Audio. Import THAT file into PrE and replace the Audio stream on the Timeline.

                             

                            To get rid of the faulting Audio stream, just Alt+click on it, and delete. That will NOT affect your Captured AV file, but only how it's used on the Timeline. Now, drag your ripped Audio-only file to that Audio Track.

                             

                            Hope that helps get you Audio.

                             

                            Good luck,

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 11. Re: No Audio when capturing from camcorder
                              hmaela Level 1

                              Hunt,

                               

                              1) In G-Spot, even when pressing the 1 button, button #2 and #3 remains inactive.

                              2) The files I have problems with were originally recorded using the DCR-PC120. The clips were edited in PrE and then exported back to cassettes, on a batch-basis. When I had finalised/filled a cassette of edited video(s), I recaptured it into PrE believing I then had made my "backup" to save. As I worked with the files in PrE for a long period, and we're talking several casettes full, I'm sure they had audio at the time they were edited. The files may  have been corrupted during the last step, when recapturing the final edited cassette in order to finally save it.

                              3) When I test record and capture using my current DCR-HC62 I have audio both when using the camcorder and after capturing into PrE. However, the GSpot still shows 32GHz.

                               

                              H

                              • 12. Re: No Audio when capturing from camcorder
                                hmaela Level 1

                                H,

                                 

                                "OK, looks like it records in 12 or 16-bit. My guess is that you have it set to "dubbing mode," yielding a 12-bit 32KHz Audio stream."

                                 

                                Stupid Q coming up; Are we talking the camcorder or PrE?

                                 

                                H

                                • 13. Re: No Audio when capturing from camcorder
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                  No, considering the workflow, it's a perfectly valid question - I was referring to the new Sony. That does not seem to be in the mix here.

                                   

                                  Now, could you rip the Audio with Audacity, or similar?

                                   

                                  Good luck,

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                  • 14. Re: No Audio when capturing from camcorder
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    What was the workflow used to get the files from PrE back to the miniDV tapes? Might be something in there.

                                     

                                    Good luck,

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: No Audio when capturing from camcorder
                                      hmaela Level 1

                                      Hunt,

                                       

                                       

                                      Able to "open" a file using Audacity. And saving it as .wav-file.There is Audio there, but it sounds corrupted and makes no sense. Maybe I need to adjust something before it makes sense.

                                       

                                      Håvard

                                      • 16. Re: No Audio when capturing from camcorder
                                        hmaela Level 1

                                        Hunt,

                                         

                                        Simple "Export to Tape". However, this was 2 years back.

                                         

                                        Midnight here now, so some sleep is needed.

                                        Thanks! ....and later.

                                         

                                        Håvard

                                        • 17. Re: No Audio when capturing from camcorder
                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                          Interesting.

                                           

                                          If you had miniDV material originally, Captured it in PrE to a PAL-DV Project, it should have been 48KHz 16-bit PCM/WAV. If it had good Audio then, upon Export to Tape, you should have gotten the 48KHz 16-bit PCM/WAV Audio back to tape, unless there was a setting off in the camera during the transfer. Now, you have 32KHz Audio, and that is not normal.

                                           

                                          It does not guarantee that the Transfer to Tape is the issue, but it is looking more and more likely.

                                           

                                          Good luck,

                                           

                                          Hunt

                                          • 18. Re: No Audio when capturing from camcorder
                                            hmaela Level 1

                                            1)

                                            I have had a look through my backup file which covers the period 2001-2010, and I am even more worried than before...

                                            The audio format is all over the place, i.e. have files in 32 KHz that plays well on the PC and on the cassettes, but also 32 KHz that are "muted". I even have 48 KHz files that plays no sound. This may support the idea that something has gone wrong in the transfer from PrE onto the cassettes. And the conclusion may be that my cassettes can no longer be regarded as my ultimate backup.

                                             

                                            2) I tested some footage from this spring. The clips were recorded using the "new" DCR-HC62 camcorder and captured by PrE initially. These files have sound when played on PC. Unfortunately recorded using 12 bits, and it shows up with Audio at 32KHz in G-Spot.. Therefore, as feared, when exporting out to new tape from PrE, and then capturing it back into PrE, the sound, although still present on then present cassette, is not being recaptured by PrE. This tells me that the workflow used so far; recording, capturing to PrE, editing, exporting to tape and recapturing a final cassette into PrE (for backup) has been detrimental.

                                             

                                            I'll have to check now what files have Audio on tape and on PC, and map each file's audio format, realising that the digital file on the PC is the true backup.. not the tapes. This work will take some time.

                                             

                                            In the meantime the hunt for a possible solution on how to restore the "corrupted" files, i.e. the files without any sound, is still on.......

                                             

                                            Slightly gutted, but an optimist!

                                             

                                            H

                                            • 19. Re: No Audio when capturing from camcorder
                                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                                              Now, I have a question - do you still have the original tapes, or were they recorded over? Were the tapes, to which you wrote the edited material used, or new?

                                               

                                              I find it a good rule to never re-use any tape, though some folk report that they have no issues even with the 10th recording on them.

                                               

                                              Good luck, and sorry for your findings.

                                               

                                              Hunt

                                              • 20. Re: No Audio when capturing from camcorder
                                                hmaela Level 1

                                                Hunt,

                                                 

                                                Old tapes recycled. May be a reason for the "mess". Will remember your rule for the next rounds, but may go digital soon anyways.

                                                 

                                                Still in search for a solution...

                                                 

                                                Håvard

                                                • 21. Re: No Audio when capturing from camcorder
                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                  While it might not be the cause, it would certainly be one suspect and a prime suspect at that.

                                                   

                                                  Some report no issues with reusing tapes dozens of times, but others report Dropped Frames, and other issues, especially with Audio, with but one reuse. To rule those issues out, I never reuse, and keep the originals, just in case I have to do a Re-Capture at a later date.

                                                   

                                                  Good luck, and I hope that you can find the exact cause of these issues. Not sure what the "cure" would be, but here is hoping.

                                                   

                                                  Hunt

                                                  • 22. Re: No Audio when capturing from camcorder
                                                    hmaela Level 1

                                                    The cure was to call in the experts at Norsk Smalfilm (http://www.smalfilm.no). They tested the original cassettes on various DV-players, and successfully managed to retrieve and capture the sound as well as the pictures. A full set of backup .avi-files now in house, and happy faces everywhere.

                                                     

                                                    Thanks for all support and help!

                                                     

                                                    H

                                                    • 23. Re: No Audio when capturing from camcorder
                                                      the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                      and happy faces everywhere.

                                                       

                                                      Great news! Glad that you were able to retrieve that Audio.

                                                       

                                                      Happy editing,

                                                       

                                                      Hunt