1 2 Previous Next 77 Replies Latest reply on Jun 12, 2012 7:14 PM by Jim_Simon

    Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?

    rdavid7950 Level 1

      I thought for sure that the spanned clips issue would be fixed in CS5.  Unfortunately after installing today I find that the issue still exists and I have to continue using the mts merger tool. That is just another unecessary step in the workflow. Have I missed something?

        • 1. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          Which camera are you using, that does spanned AVCHD Clips? How are you getting the files from the card/camera?

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
            rdavid7950 Level 1

            Camera is Panny HMC150

            Copying files from sd card to hard drive then importing the files into project.  It's the same thing that happened in cs4.

            • 3. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
              shooternz Level 6

              Do you import the entire folder structure from the SD card ?

              • 4. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                rdavid7950 Level 1

                No, just the .mts file. I tried copying the whole file structure in cs4 and since that didn't work, didn't even think of trying it now.  Is that necessary?  Couldn't find anything in the help files regarding that.

                • 5. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  Instead, please try Copying the entire folder structure, prior to Import.

                   

                  Good luck,

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    Like Bill said, you need to import the entire directory, because of the metadata and the pointers for spanned clips, that are contained within the directory.

                    • 7. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                      vdoeditr Level 1

                      Maybe this will help you.

                       

                       

                      Step one, when you copy the files from your camera, don't just copy the .mts files.  Copy the entire AVCHD folder.  This folder contains other data/info. (a directory structure for AVCHD files)  Bring that whole folder off of your camera, and place it somewhere on your computer's harddrive.

                       

                      Step two, go into CS4's media browser window and navigate to the "AVCHD" folder that you brought from your camera.  Click on that folder and it will automatically see the .mts files as one large "stitched together file" just the same as your camera does when you playback the footage from the camera. (no more audio or video frames dropped at the joining of clips)  From the media browser window, import the footage, then take that footage from your project panel to the timeline.

                       

                      Note:  AVCHD footage is HIGHLY compressed.....if you don't have MAJOR horsepower, you will find it difficult or next to impossible to edit/playback native long-duration AVCHD clips on your timeline.  The next thing to do then is once you have taken the file from the media browser to the proj. panel, and then finally to the timeline, export the timeline to the Adobe Media encoder, and transcode that file into a format that is more edit friendly.  (Mac users can transcode to Prores....which is FANTASTIC.  PC users will have to use uncompressed AVI, or download the Cineform codec.)

                       

                      This takes a few hours, so set it up to transcode before going to bed at night, and your editable files will be done when you wake up.

                       

                       

                      Hope this helps.

                       

                       

                      Eric

                       

                       

                      BTW:  I recently started using FCP, the log and transfer window in FCP does this seamlessly and with MUCH LESS hassle.  Transcodes to ProRes which can then be edited in FCP full 1920x1080.....on a 13" MacBook Pro.  AVCHD regardless of what people on forums will tell you, is NOT editable on "regular" machines.  At least not editable with any ounce of enjoyment.  (I mean unless stuttering and lag is your thing, then cool) 

                       

                      If your AVCHD clips are more than a few minutes long, or God forbid you try to multicam edit AVCHD clips, and you are on a "normal" machine, even a decent machine, you can forget it.  You will HAVE to re-wrap.

                       

                      Prepare to spend ALOT of money if you want to be able to edit AVCHD natively.

                       

                       

                      Have a great night! 

                      • 8. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                        Many users report on other forums that even when copying/importing with the folder structure intact, Premiere has the issue with spanned clips.

                        • 9. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                          Steve Liles Level 1

                          Just to confirm that this was always a problem for me but with CS5 just Import the Folder containing the clips - this means if you're using the Panasonic HMC150/151 then you should have downloaded the PRIVATE file structure onto your Hard Drive and then do a normal Import but instead of Importing Files you need to hit the Import>Import Folder and choose the PRIVATE Folder. All your longer than 26 minute clips will now come over clean and joined together!!!

                          • 10. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                            rdavid7950 Level 1

                            Thanks for the info.. will try it later tonight when I am back home...

                            • 11. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                              D&R Films Level 1

                              vdoeditr wrote:

                               

                               

                               

                               

                              BTW:  I recently started using FCP, the log and transfer window in FCP does this seamlessly and with MUCH LESS hassle.  Transcodes to ProRes which can then be edited in FCP full 1920x1080.....on a 13" MacBook Pro.  AVCHD regardless of what people on forums will tell you, is NOT editable on "regular" machines.  At least not editable with any ounce of enjoyment.  (I mean unless stuttering and lag is your thing, then cool) 

                               

                              If your AVCHD clips are more than a few minutes long, or God forbid you try to multicam edit AVCHD clips, and you are on a "normal" machine, even a decent machine, you can forget it.  You will HAVE to re-wrap.

                               

                              Prepare to spend ALOT of money if you want to be able to edit AVCHD natively.

                               

                               

                              Not entirely true. I can edit full frame full rez AVCHD with CS5 in software mode on my i7 920/6GB desktop pretty well.. No studdering/lag. I added a GTX260 w/hack and now it edits multicam like butter with native AVCHD files.

                               

                              On the cheap... My i5 laptop ($650 laptop) with Edius Neo 2.5 ($150) can edit native AVCHD files VERY smoothly with no lag. That's full frame full rez native AVCHD.

                              Here's the video of editing native AVCHD on an i5 laptop: http://www.vimeo.com/10145562

                               

                              I haven't been "re-wraping" my files for nearly a year now.

                              • 12. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                Steve Liles Level 1

                                I don't want this post to move away from the original subject but just to add my experience as well, I'm not having that many problems with editing AVCHD and my spec is hardly outstanding. I've been editing AVCHD using two camera shoots for 18months now on CS4 and there is a bug which is being discussed in another thread which makes it lag in between a cross disolve on some occassions but apart from that it's not uneditible in my experience. Yes I would like it to be a bit more responsive but I have only been using CS4 on Windows XP 64 (unsupported), 4gB RAM, GTX

                                8800 Graphics card, Core 2 Quad Q6700 Processors. I now have CS5 with 6gB RAM, Windows 7 64 and the GeForce GTX 285 card which so far has been a little underwhelming but that could be because of the bug mentioned earlier but I still edit in full res AVCHD rather than transcode. I also find multicam is not a problem with 2 cameras but it is with more and when I say not a problem there is no lag at all. The reason I don't like to transcode is simple - the quality is outstanding.

                                • 13. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                  jo_dfilm

                                  hi there

                                   

                                  one question: for clips shorter than 26 minutes can I import the clips on my hard disk directly from the STREAM folder?

                                  I actually did it and video AVCHD looks ok

                                  did I nontheless do something wrong?

                                  thanx

                                  • 14. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                    Steve Liles Level 1

                                    Hi - yes there is no issue with just moving the clips as you have mentioned - the problem comes when you move a clip that is larger than

                                    4Gb (obviously it won't be larger than 4Gb as your camera will have split the clip into a new clip but you understand my reference here) as this will then be a split clip and Adobe doesn't know how to handle it so there will be a few frames skip between the clips unless you have moved the entire folder where the relevent stitching is then understood.

                                    • 16. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                      vdoeditr Level 1

                                      D&R:

                                       

                                       

                                      I watched your Edius video on vimeo.......you were not multicam editing........and your clips were 40 sec. long.

                                       

                                      I said "If your AVCHD clips are more than a few minutes long"   yours in this example were seconds long.

                                       

                                       

                                      try doing that with quantity of 3 clips that are each 45-60 min. long.  put them into the multicam editor and lemme know what happens then.

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      Liles:  I have a very similar machine to the one you are describing.  Q6600 Quad-core, 8 gb RAM, 10k velociraptor sys drive, RAID-0 scratches/media, and a GTX260 (which i know is not qualified for MPE)  if you put even 2 clips 45-60 min. long each on the timeline and open it in the multicam editor it HALTS it. 

                                       

                                       

                                      You cannot edit long duration native AVCHD easily without spending an A-LOAD of money.  Unless you are editing clips that are 40 sec. long each and doing short form editing.  If you film long-form stage productions, catholic wedding ceremonies on 3-4 AVCHD cameras........

                                       

                                      YOU HAVE TO "RE-WRAP"  or you have to spend LOTS-O-MONEY.  AVCHD is not an edit "friendly" format.....it was designed as a recording format for cameras.  Yes, PPRO supports it natively, but once again if you are going to do something like a multi-camera wedding ceremony, you will not be able to edit those spanned files in the multicamera editor in AVCHD......especially not streaming from the SD card through a USB port. 

                                       

                                       

                                      So someone explain this....since this post is about spanned AVCHD files......the media browser in PPRO sees the spanned files from the card.....how are you getting those to the timeline without streaming them from your card or a hard-drive.  If you shoot multicamera......are you streaming from 3 SD cards at the same time.....or moving the files to a hard-drive?  in the example that D&R used (which was not multicamera) he didnt even appear to have an external drive for media....isn't a separate drive for scratches and media one of the first things we learn about for editing?  For the record, I ran my native AVCHD footage from RAID-0 drives connected e-sata, the drives aren't the problem, it is the processors inability to decode that highly compressed format on-the-fly.

                                       

                                      I believe that we are all talking about the same thing here, but not comparing apples to apples.  I only stated that using AVCHD for LONG-FORM editing was the problem.  I too can edit 30-60 sec. clips in native AVCHD in CS4 without issue.  If you guys are truly doing long-form editing in native AVCHD on laptops, then PLEASE clue me in on the secret...cuz i have obviously missed that boat.

                                       

                                       

                                      Cheers

                                      • 17. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                        Steve Liles Level 1

                                        Hi, right I'll try and answer some of the questions posed. Firstly I do edit weddings including Catholic weddings so I do have 2 camera shoots that last well over an hour. The thing is that I can't edit more than 2 cameras in multicam without it halting, but with 2 cameras I find it's more than responsive, I've always assumed it's to do with the playback quality on the multicam editing suite that reduces the look and feel enough to be very responsive. I do sometimes bring a 3rd camera into play but when I do then I always transcode first but seriously I have no trouble whatsoever with two cameras at full PH 1080i quality. I do however always without fail transfer all my footage from the SD card to the Hard Drive and then load into my editing suite directly from the hard drive (to bring it back to the reason for this post then it is important to transfer the whole folder in order for CS5 to understand the clip spans). I have my scratch and media files alongside my project files (if there's a better way than please tell me as I don't really understand how best to place these). Apart from that I don't know what else I could be doing differently.

                                        I haven't really found the extra RAM, GeForce GTX285 with MPE acceleration any better to be honest, in fact it's the most underwhelming aspect of the new CS5 to me. Scrubbing the timeline still has a slowness feel to it for me in order to be effective and there's more than an element of skipping when scrubbing. Having spent a lot of money upgrading to CS5, Windows 7 64, extra 4gB RAM and the GTX 285 Graphics card I was hoping for so much more but hopefully when this cross disolve issue is finally resolved then I will feel some benefit!!

                                        • 18. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                          D&R Films Level 1

                                          vdoeditr wrote:

                                           

                                          D&R:

                                           

                                           

                                          I watched your Edius video on vimeo.......you were not multicam editing........and your clips were 40 sec. long.

                                           

                                          I said "If your AVCHD clips are more than a few minutes long"   yours in this example were seconds long.

                                           

                                           

                                          try doing that with quantity of 3 clips that are each 45-60 min. long.  put them into the multicam editor and lemme know what happens then.

                                           

                                           

                                           

                                           

                                          That was an example of a lowly i5 LAPTOP.. I can easily multicam 4 clips of AVCHD native on my i7920 with only 6GB of ram in Edius 5.5

                                          With 3-4 60 minute clips.

                                           

                                          My main reply was to this: "Prepare to spend ALOT of money if you want to be able to edit AVCHD natively."

                                           

                                          I showed that you certainly CAN edit native AVCHD with a lowly $650 laptop and $150 software.

                                          • 19. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                            pebalsamo Level 2

                                            Steve Liles wrote:

                                             

                                            Just to confirm that this was always a problem for me but with CS5 just Import the Folder containing the clips - this means if you're using the Panasonic HMC150/151 then you should have downloaded the PRIVATE file structure onto your Hard Drive and then do a normal Import but instead of Importing Files you need to hit the Import>Import Folder and choose the PRIVATE Folder. All your longer than 26 minute clips will now come over clean and joined together!!!

                                             

                                            I just tried the "Import Folder" with CS 4 and it did not work for me.  The spanned clips are still all seperate.  That will be a big bonus when we move to CS5.  We do a bunch of weddings and I hate having to join the clips outside of Premiere.  It seems like it would be so easy.  There are plenty of other NLE's that import the spanned clips just fine.

                                             

                                            With CS5 does it see the Timecode of the clips too?  That is something else that makes me a little crazy with CS4. I have gotten use to it, but it sure would be nice.

                                             

                                            BTW - I am shooting with the Panny 150 and I always import the entire card so the whole folder structure is intact.

                                             

                                            Phil

                                            • 20. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                              D&R Films Level 1

                                              Try copying the folder to your HDD, then using the media browser to import the clips. Works on CS5 with spanned clips.

                                              • 21. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                                pebalsamo Level 2

                                                D&R Films wrote:

                                                 

                                                Try copying the folder to your HDD, then using the media browser to import the clips. Works on CS5 with spanned clips.

                                                Tried that several times, but I thought for the heck of it I would do it again and No Go for CS4.  It just will not join the spanned clips.  At least not that I can figure out.

                                                 

                                                The PRIVATE folder is on my HDD and using the media browser it sees the files as AVCHD as soon as you click on the PRIVATE folder but still does not join them...

                                                 

                                                Phil

                                                • 22. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                                  D&R Films Level 1

                                                  It works in CS5. I just tried it to be extra sure I wasn't mistaken.

                                                  • 23. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                                    pebalsamo Level 2

                                                    D&R Films wrote:

                                                     

                                                    It works in CS5. I just tried it to be extra sure I wasn't mistaken.

                                                    Thanks, thats good to know.  Not sure when we will upgrade but at least I know.

                                                     

                                                    Can you tell me if it sees the Timecode of the clips now?  That is something else that it does not do in CS4.  Every clip starts at 00;00;00;00.

                                                     

                                                    Thanks

                                                    Phil

                                                    • 24. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                                      Steve Liles Level 1

                                                      Hi Phil, I might be answering this a bit too quickly without checking but I'm filming all week so haven't had chance to check it out so if this doesn't answer your question then please post back and I'll recheck, but I'm pretty sure I see the real timecode on CS5. However, is it possibly your setting on your HMC-150(1) whereby it resets per clip as opposed to resetting for the card? I don't reset at all (until the job is finished) so I get the full timecode throughout the project? Let me know if this doesn't work and I'll check why I'm getting it a bit more.

                                                      Cheers, Steve

                                                      • 25. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                                        pebalsamo Level 2

                                                        If I check the clips in the camera you can see the real TC.  If I convert the clips to either DV or DVCPRO HD through the provided transcoder I get the real TC.  But if I use the original footage in Premiere I do not get real TC.  I basically just get running time since every clip starts at 00;00;00;00.

                                                         

                                                        Like I said though this is with CS4, and is a know issue.  I went round and round with Adobe about this when CS4 first launched since they were really touting the Full AVCHD support, and specifically with teh HMC-150.  Took several months of talking to Adobe support before I finally got to talk to someone that actually used Premiere and knew what TC was.

                                                         

                                                        Phil

                                                        • 26. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                                          D&R Films Level 1

                                                          Nope.. not fixed... All still start with 0.

                                                           

                                                          Shame, Edius is the only one I know of that will recognize timecode on AVCHD clips.

                                                          • 27. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                                            pebalsamo Level 2

                                                            D&R Films wrote:

                                                             

                                                            Nope.. not fixed... All still start with 0.

                                                             

                                                            Shame, Edius is the only one I know of that will recognize timecode on AVCHD clips.

                                                            Man that really stinks...

                                                             

                                                            I really wish that they would fix that.

                                                             

                                                            Thanks for letting me know.

                                                             

                                                            Phil

                                                            • 28. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                                              Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                              Last I had read, CS5 will read the timecode from the AVCHD footage as long as you maintain the folder structure as it originally existed on the recording medium. If you transfer that lock, stock and barrel to your hard drive, you can import the MTS files in any fashion you choose, and the timecode will be read. I'm guessing that the metadata isn't stored in the files themselves, but elsewhere in the folder structure in sidecar files.

                                                               

                                                              This apparently works with some AVCHD cameras, particularly Sony models, so it's a guess if it works with the HMC150 and similar--I don't have one to test, though.

                                                              • 29. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                                                Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                                Shame, Edius is the only one I know of that will recognize timecode on AVCHD clips.

                                                                Wrong.

                                                                 

                                                                avchd-timecode.png

                                                                 

                                                                All you have to do is maintain the folder structure from the card, and browse to it with Media Browser, import the clips using a normal import process, or even just drag and drop them from Explorer. Timecode, as you can clearly see, is read and applied to each file.

                                                                 

                                                                Hate to say it, but this is really a case where you should have done a little research before firing from the hip. But hey... glad to help.

                                                                • 30. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                                                  D&R Films Level 1

                                                                  I don't get it... I didn't "Shoot from the hip" I launched CS5 and checked my HMC40 footage.. Just did it again. Timecode is empty.

                                                                  • 31. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                                                    Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                                    Perhaps the HMC40 doesn't record timecode; I don't know, because I don't have one of those either, but I can't imagine that its recording structure is any different than the HMC150's. My comment is based on your blanket statement:

                                                                    Nope.. not fixed... All still start with 0.

                                                                    ...suggesting that Premiere Pro CS5 doesn't read AVCHD timecode at all. Look at the screen shot: clearly, it does, when you maintain the folder structure. If you take an MTS file out of the STREAM folder, no timecode is read. Keep the folder structure intact from the PRIVATE folder on down, and timecode comes in. Simple as that.

                                                                    • 32. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                                                      D&R Films Level 1

                                                                      I was responding to his "specifically HMC" part.. and Yes... the HMC40 uses the same AVCCAM codec as the HMC40 with timecode.

                                                                      Timecode that Edius sees, but CS5 does not.

                                                                      HMC_CS5.jpg

                                                                      Note the directory structure. Intact. 1080P24 or 720/60P neither show timecode in CS5.

                                                                      • 33. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                                                        D&R Films Level 1

                                                                        Okay.. exact same clips in Edius:

                                                                        HMC_edius.jpg

                                                                         

                                                                        Timecode shows right up.

                                                                        ?? Is there a setting or something to make it show up in CS5?

                                                                        • 34. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                                                          Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                                          Why is your folder called "AVCHDL?" Is that an HMC40 thing? Because with the HMC150 footage I downloaded (folder structure intact), the paths look like this:

                                                                           

                                                                          avchd-folders.png

                                                                           

                                                                          The fact that your screenshot shows that you have to go to the level of that "AVCHDL" folder suggest something is misnamed; I only have to go to the PRIVATE folder, and the AVCHD viewer filter takes over in Media Browser. Can you show what the rest of your folder structure looks like?

                                                                          • 35. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                                                            D&R Films Level 1

                                                                            folder_structure_HMC40.jpg

                                                                             

                                                                            Ironically, the GH1 has the same folder structure as yours but doesn't have timecode as it's a DSLR (kinda). In CS5 I don't have to naviagte past the Private folder for it to see the AVCHD file structure.

                                                                             

                                                                            BTW.. I copied the files to the HDD using the AVCCAM Viewer from Panasonic.

                                                                            • 36. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                                                              Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                                              I copied the files to the HDD using the AVCCAM Viewer from Panasonic.

                                                                               

                                                                              Maybe try a test just using Explorer.

                                                                              • 37. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                                                                D&R Films Level 1

                                                                                Okay.. more info.. When using the AVCCAM viewer software from Panasonic that comes with the HMC40 and HMC150 and is suggested to use to xfer the files to retain structure, it ads the L to the end of all the AVCHD folders. Edius sees them fine... CS5 spans the clips fine. CS5 just doesn't show the timecode... Strange.

                                                                                • 38. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                                                                  Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                                                  Delete the "L" and see what happens. Do this with Premiere closed.

                                                                                  • 39. Re: Has Adobe not fixed this issue with AVCHD Spanned clips?
                                                                                    D&R Films Level 1

                                                                                    I'll try recording something and browsing the card itself which has AVCHD folder not AVCHDL folder.

                                                                                     

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Yep... CS5 sees the timecode now. Gotta be somehing with the folder being changed!

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