33 Replies Latest reply on Jul 15, 2010 12:38 PM by Moore6931

    Monitor - Printout Mismatch

    Moore6931

      Hello:

       

      My problem is a mismatch between the monitor display and the final print.  As detailed below, I've calibrated the monitor and the printer.  Further, I've run a number of tests, to isolate the problem.

       

      1. My current computer system includes Windows XP (current updates), Photoshop CS4, an Asus 27" flat panel monitor (MT276HE), an EVGA GTX260 video card and an Epson Stylus Photo R1900 printer. The monitor and the video card are new upgrades.

      2. Recently, I purchased the X-Rite i1XTreme to calibrate the monitor and the Epson R1900 printer.  Initial use of the new monitor/video card revealed that the monitor and print outs are quite different.

      3. Via X-Rite, profiles of the monitor and the printer have been generated.

      4. Using Photoshop CS4 - View - Proof Setup - Custom, the monitor and printer profiles have displayed virtually the same output
      (brightness and colors).

      5. Printing a photo with Photoshop CS4 and having the printer manage the colors will result in a good print. This is with either the Epson default settings or the custom profile.

      6. If I print a photo via Windows Picture and Fax viewer, with either the Epson default settings or the X-Rite custom profile, the result is a good print.

      7. However, printing a photo with Photoshop CS4, disabling the printer color management and setting CS4 to manage the colors will result in a dark print. The dark print results whether I use an Epson default profile or the X-Rite custom profile.

      I suspect that I am overlooking or incorrectly setting a configuration setting. Yes, it is most assuredly this operator error but I
      have not found the error, yet.

      I thank you for your time and consideration.

      Scott

       

        • 1. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
          John Danek Level 4

          I'm not sure if the sRGB is actually a choice for the monitor's profile.  Isn't that a color tag for RGB images?  Regardless, I'd stay away from sRGB as a profile for anything in Print.  It is a narrow color gamut suitable for video or internet viewed images within the limitations of a limted RGB gamut on the web.  Since you went through the trouble of creating an .icc profile for the 1900, then certainly use it in the print driver and absolutely turn ON color management in the printer.  You pretty much answered your own question when you turned color management OFF and chose PS to manage colors.  If you sent a clipped sRGB image to the printer direct from PS with no CM, then the prints are garbage.  The only time you turn color management OFF is when you are doing the calibration target strips via the RAW print driver.  You typically do not have access to that .icc profile unless you choose color management in the print driver.

          • 2. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
            gator soup Level 4

            man, the SEARCH in this forum is the WORST...

             

            for me, the Photoshop monitor is the easiest to rule out

             

            download a known good file like the PDI-Photodisc-Getty file

            http://www.gballard.net/photoshop/pdi_download/

             

            that link gives some good clues, most importantly:

             

            The file (the document's Source Color Space) is independent of Photoshop:

             

            The Color Management System CMS, Photoshop, ONLY uses the monitor profile for one thing: To PROOF source file on the monitor (the monitor profile has zero to do with how the file prints).

             

            The Color Management System CMS, Photoshop, ONLY uses the printer (target) profile Print Space for one thing: To PROOF source file on the paper (the printer profile Print Space has zero to do with how the file looks on the monitor).

             

            While my simple PROOFING ANALOGY doesn't address the pitfalls of relying on a bad monitor to evaluate and adjust digital color, it does make two important facts about Photoshop and professional color-managed printing workflows:
            1) The printer can PROOF (print) the source file faithfully regardless of how right or wrong the monitor is set up, and

             

            2) The monitor can PROOF (display) the source file faithfully regardless of how right or wrong the printer is set up.
            Getting a known good file (like the Adobe RGB PDI Photodisc-GettyImages RGB reference image) into Photoshop allows me to evaluate the monitor alongside the print to help me identify where the problem is occurring.

             

            I personally don't see anything wrong with people using a Source Space of sRGB (especially if they are not sure what they are doing) — but you should always be using a custom monitor profile for your monitor

             

            I tend to rant on the NO COLOR ADJUSTMENT work flow

             

            Color Handling: Photoshop Manages Color

             

            Printer Profile: specific Printer/Paper/Ink ICC profile

             

            Rendering Intent: Perceptual

             

            Print Settings> Media Type: (as close as possible to the paper Type you are using

             

            Printer Color Management: Off (No Color Adjustment)

             

            If you have a good monitor profile enabled — Photoshop should be displaying the PDI file properly (there is no wany to screw this up unless you do not Honor the embedded profile)

             

            If the print doesn't 'match' the monitor at that point — you need to look at how your print settings are configured because you are probably missing something (or you are hitting a bug)...

            • 3. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
              Level 4

              Have you always favored "Perceptual" rendering intent, gator soup?

               

              There are some images in which Perceptual does indeed result in a better conversion, but those are rare exceptions in my experience. For the vast majority of images I end up using Relative Colorimetric rendering intent.

               

              My perspective is that I would rather have an insignificant quantity of out-of-gamut colors clipped (Relative Colorimetric) rather than have the entire gamut of colors compressed (Perceptual), especially when the clipped colors are not only insignificant but immaterial because of their location.

               

              However, in the rare exceptions where one is faced with a significant quantity of out-of-gamut colors located at materially relevant locations, I concede that Perceptual yields a better conversion.  As I said, though, in my experience those exceptions are rare.  On the other hand, if the user is not accustomed to ferreting out those exceptions, or is not sure, then he'd be better off with Perceptual.

               

               

               

              Wo Tai Lao Le

              我太老了

              • 4. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                Level 4

                Tai Lao wrote:

                 

                …There are some images in which Perceptual does indeed result in a better conversion, but those are rare exceptions in my experience…

                 

                To elaborate a bit:

                 

                Those are usually images created in a very wide color space like ProPhoto RGB and which for some unfortunate, sad reason have to be converted to something much narrower like sRGB, as for the web.  Since I normally do not deal with web images, I exceptionally seldom find myself in that precarious situation.

                 

                 

                 

                Wo Tai Lao Le

                我太老了

                • 5. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                  Moore6931 Level 1

                  Hello:

                   

                  I've been working with the problem but not solved it, yet.

                   

                  Yes.  I have either Photoshop CS4 or the 1900 printer (not both) provide color management.

                   

                  I've left the Photoshop Color Settings to sRGB.  Both the monitor and the printer have custom profiles.

                   

                  I believe that I can specify the printer profile, whether the printer or Photoshop manage the colors.  When I proof the file, in Photoshop, I select the printer profile; the screen proof looks fine.

                   

                  Scott

                  • 6. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                    Lou Dina Level 3

                    I have an article on my website that goes into depth on monitor and printer profiling. Mostly likely, you can find part or all of the answer there. Click the link and download the article on Monitor and Printer Profiling (pdf). Many of the problems associated with good monitor to print match have to do with monitor luminance. Usually, monitor luminance is set way too high. I'd start with 90 cd/m2 and go from there. Viewing lights can also make a difference big difference. And of course, make sure you have the right settings in Photoshop in the "Color Settings" menu.

                     

                    http://www.dinagraphics.com/color_management.php

                     

                    Lou

                    1 person found this helpful
                    • 7. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                      Moore6931 Level 1

                      June 15, 2010

                       

                      Dear Lou:

                       

                      I thank you.  I read your article and recommendations.

                       

                      I recalibrated my monitor (Asus MT276HE) from 120, 2.2, 6500K to 90, 2.2 and 6500K.  The visual difference between the before and after calibration was a slight darkening with the after.  As I recall, 6500K is also the native white point setting for this monitor.

                       

                      As suggested previously, I downloaded the file "PDI-Photodisc-Getty."  I printed the file, using Photoshop color management, printer color management off, and the profile for the paper (Epson Ultra Premium Photo Paper in an Epson Stylus photo R1900 Printer).  Whether I use the Epson glossy profile or the custom profile, the prints are darker than the monitor.

                       

                      Though the gray wedges are distinct on the monitor, the printed version is darker.

                       

                      As examples, the printed wedges 18, 18, 18 (RGB) and 0, 0, 0 look nearly alike, in print.  The printed wedge 236, 236, 236 appears similar to wedge 218, 218, 218 on the monitor.

                       

                      Scott

                      • 8. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                        gator soup Level 4

                        I prefer a brighter monitor (140 cd/m2)...here are some screen shots of the workflow I outlined earlier:

                         

                        Color Handling: Photoshop Manages Color

                        Printer Profile: specific  Printer/Paper/Ink ICC profile

                        Rendering Intent: Perceptual:

                         

                        Ps.jpg

                         

                        Print  Settings> Media Type: (as close as possible to the paper Type you are  using:

                         

                        Media.jpg

                         

                        Printer  Color Management: Off (No Color Adjustment):

                         

                        Off.jpg

                         

                        If you are still printing dark (compared to your 'calibrated' Photoshop monitor) something else is going on (try one of the canned printer profiles that's married to your printer-ink)...but it's hard to speculate from here from the infor you provided...

                        1 person found this helpful
                        • 9. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                          Lou Dina Level 3

                          Scott,

                           

                          More often than not, prints that appear darker than the monitor often point to too high a monitor luminance. As mentioned in my article, there are fewer variables in creating a custom printer profile than there are when creating monitor profiles. Here are a few other things to check.

                           

                          1. The driver settings used can have an impact on your custom printer profile. The driver settings control the amount of ink laid down, linearity, shadow separation, etc. If you selected a setting that lays down too much ink, your shadows will plug and your will get very poor shadow separation. I test these settings (see my website) before even printing calibration targets. For the record, I rarely trust the advice of paper manufacturers when it comes to driver settings. They are often wrong, or at least not optimum.

                           

                          2. The intensity (and angle) of your viewing light can make a big difference on perception. Ideally, you will be working in a rather dim room, with a monitor set to somewhere between 80-90 cd/m2. You also want to try to avoid having bright room lights shining on your monitor, since they can affect perception. To set my viewing light intensity, I bring up a pure white, full screen document in Photoshop. Then, I place a white sheet of paper under my viewing light. I want the two to have close to the same apparent visual brightness. If my paper appears too dark, I bring the inspection light closer to my paper, if too light, I move it away. I also use 5000K viewing lights. You can just move a print closer and further from your light and see the big impact made on both highlights and shadows.

                           

                          3. You may need to play with the soft proof settings in Photoshop. For glossy, luster or baryta type prints, I usually do NOT use the Simulate Black Ink or Paper White check boxes. I get a better match with them unchecked. When printing on matte fine art papers with lower Dmax, I find that the final print usually comes somewhere in between having Simulate Black Ink checked and unchecked.

                           

                          My monitor is usually calibrated to around 80-85 cd/m2 luminance, 5200K, and 2.2 gamma. It's not perfect, but it mighty close.I've settle on this after years of tweaking, adjustment and experimentation.

                           

                          Lou

                          • 10. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                            Moore6931 Level 1

                            June 21, 2010

                             

                            Dear All:

                             

                            I'm continuing to adress this problem.

                             

                            With the monitor luminance set to 90, the screen view is reasonably close to the printed output IF I have the printer manage the colors.  I guess that obtaining the monitor almost matching the printed photo is offset by a very light grey background for Word and Excel pages.  Yes, views other than photos are a bit dingy.

                             

                            However, when I have Photoshop CS4 manage the colors, the prints are very dark and I do mean VERY dark.  These prints are much darker than when the monitor luminance was set to the default of 120.  Of hand, it does not seem reasonable for the monitor settings/calibration to affect the printer; instead, it seems that the monitor and printer should work from the file.  I've gone through the printer and Photoshop settings but have not found a discrepancy from your detailed description  I thank you for the screen shots with notes.

                             

                            Prior to starting this thread (a couple of weeks ago), I sent a request into Adobe Tech.  This morning, we connected and ran a remote connection.  They checked my set-up and settings but did not find the problem.  The technician talked with other support techs; he said that my problem would be advanced to the next level for solution.

                             

                            I thank you for your assistance.

                             

                            Scott

                            • 11. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                              Lou Dina Level 3

                              Scott,

                               

                              With the monitor luminance set to 90, the screen view is reasonably  close to the printed output IF I have the printer manage the colors.  I  guess that obtaining the monitor almost matching the printed photo is  offset by a very light grey background for Word and Excel pages.  Yes,  views other than photos are a bit dingy.

                               

                              Word and Excel are not color managed programs, so forget about getting a good monitor to print match with them. It's like horseshoes....close is good enough. Photoshop is a different story. If printed output and a close match are a high priority to you, then it makes sense your monitor will appear a bit "dingy". This is the reality of printed media...limited dynamic range, limited color gamut, limited degree of white brightness, limited maximum black, etc.

                               

                              However, when I have Photoshop CS4  manage the colors, the prints are very dark and I do mean VERY dark.   These prints are much darker than when the monitor luminance was set to  the default of 120.  Of hand, it does not seem reasonable for the  monitor settings/calibration to affect the printer; instead, it seems  that the monitor and printer should work from the file.  I've gone  through the printer and Photoshop settings but have not found a  discrepancy from your detailed description  I thank you for the screen  shots with notes.

                               

                              I suspect there is something wrong in your default settings, your setting when printing, or your profiles.With your monitor luminance set to 90, you should get a pretty close monitor to print match, at least from a density standpoint. When you have PS manage colors, you turn off ALL color management in your driver, and PS converts the numbers. If your monitor and printer profiles are accurate, you should get a print that comes very close to mathich your proof setup. Are you using custom printer profiles? If so, I suspect either your monitor profile or printer profiles are whacked, or both are. Your custom printer profile is only good for one paper, and you need to have all your driver settings set exactly the same as they were when your original profile was created. Your printer does take the numbers from the file, but the numbers you edit into your file are influenced by what you see on your monitor. So, while your monitor doesn't directly "affect" your printer output, it does dramatically affect how you edit the file, which of course means the numbers change accordingly. Did you read my article on profiling?

                               

                              You mentioned above that you get a fairly close match when you let the printer manage the colors. That suggests one of a few things. 1) either your custom printer profile you created is way off, 2) or you are doing something wrong with your settings when sending the job to the printer. Letting your printer manage the colors tells PS to leave the file alone and not to muck with the numbers...all the conversions will be handled by the printer usually using the printer's canned profile for a given paper. If that gets you close, then it suggests your monitor profile is reasonably close. That would point to number "2" above as the issue. When you ask PS to manage colors, you have to get ALL the settings right in PS and your driver, select the correct profile, etc. If you haven't done so, you may wish to read my articles on monitor and printer profiles.

                               

                              Hope this helps.

                               

                              Lou

                              http://www.dinagraphics.com/color_management.php

                              • 12. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                                Moore6931 Level 1

                                June 22, 2010

                                 

                                Dear Lou:

                                 

                                I thank you for your guidance, in this issue.  Yes, I've read your article on profiling.  In fact, it is printed and kept with my new books on color management.

                                 

                                I realize that the quality of the monitor presentation affects the edits, which I perform on the file.  As the file changes, then the prints should change.  I do not understand why the prints would be vastly different (please see the sample photos below) when I print from the same file, the same printer, the same paper and the same printer profile.  The difference, which I have identified is whether Photoshop CS4 or the printer provides the color management.

                                 

                                I realize that the problem is probably an incorrect setting, which I misunderstand or don't know about (i.e. operator error).  However, these discussions and my reading have not awakened me to the detail of the problem.

                                 

                                Because a new monitor (Asus MT276HE) and video card were very bright compared to the printouts, I purchased the XRite Eye-One XTreme.  Also, I wanted to calibrate the color.  The XRite system accommodates monitors, printers and other peripherals.  Currently, I have custom profiles for the monitor and for Epson Ultra Premium Photo Paper Glossy (S042182).  All of my test prints have been on this glossy paper.

                                 

                                The following picture shows the Photoshop CS4 and printer settings, which I have used.

                                 

                                062210 CS4-R1900 Settings.jpg

                                 

                                The following specifies the settings that are shown in the picture.

                                 

                                Printer – Epson Stylus Photo R1900

                                 

                                Printer Set-up –

                                1.       Premium Photo Paper Glossy (Epson Ultra Premium Photo Paper Glossy; #S042182)

                                2.       Quality – Photo

                                3.       Color Management – ICM

                                4.       Color Management – Off (No Color Adjustment)

                                 

                                Photoshop CS4 Print –

                                1.       Color Management – Document sRGB

                                2.       Color Handling – Photoshop Manages Colors

                                3.       Printer Profile – Custom profile generated by XRite Eye-One Match 3 for Epson Ultra Premium Photo Paper Glossy (#S042182)

                                4.       Rendering Intent – Perceptual

                                5.       Black Point Compensation – Selected

                                 

                                 

                                For clarificaton of what I am seeing, the following printout brightness and photo comparisons are provided.

                                 

                                Printouts – Darkest to Lightest

                                1.       Adobe Color Management – sRGB Profile

                                a.       062110 Adobe Color sRGB.jpg

                                 

                                2.       Adobe Color Management – XRite Printer/Paper Profile

                                 

                                3.       Printer Manages Colors – Epson Printer Profile or XRite Printer/Paper Profile

                                a.       062110 Printer Epson Profile.jpg

                                 

                                4.       Original file; also, please see the Adobe/monitor display of this file, as shown above in the Photoshop/printer settings picture.

                                 

                                          a. 040608 Big Sur Coast 19 email.JPG

                                 

                                 

                                I hope that this clarifies my understanding of this problem.  There will most certainly be more questions concerning this and I appreciate them all, for I want to learn and each question is an education.

                                 

                                Scott

                                • 13. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                                  gator soup Level 4

                                  Pardon me for chiming in here again, for the benefit of anyone struggling with this issue.

                                   

                                  The Histogram here gives a valuable clue: flatlines on either side, most of the information is on the dark side:

                                   

                                  Histogram.png

                                   

                                  Maybe using a known good file (like the PDI image) would make this easier to troubleshoot?

                                   

                                  Using a good file: open the file in Photoshop, print from Photoshop, and compare the print to the Photoshop monitor...based on what I see here visually in the image and in the Histogram, I would expect the landscape to print dark (with no black point) on a inkjet printer.

                                   

                                  Also, when making these kinds of screen shots, it would be useful to include the Profile (in the lower-left corner) instead of Doc size info.

                                  • 14. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                                    Lou Dina Level 3

                                    Scott,

                                     

                                    Gator makes some good recommendations about picking a known quantity and using it to troubleshoot.

                                     

                                    So, you are getting a reasonably good monitor to print match letting your Epson 1900 handle color management (and setting PS to let the printer manage colors). In this scenario, the Epson printer is using their generic profile, media settings, etc, for your chosen paper. The conversion is working okay. It may not be perfect color or density, but it is in the ballpark.

                                     

                                    This suggests to me that your custom printer profile was created incorrectly, you are double profiling, settings are incorrect, or something of that sort.

                                     

                                    1. When you printed your original profiling target (so you could create a custom profile), you should have selected No Color Management in BOTH Photoshop and the Epson driver. This insures that raw, unconverted data is sent to the driver, and the driver also leaves the data alone.You want uncorrected data in your profiling target.

                                     

                                    2. You also need to set your driver to No Color Adjustment, select the proper media type for your paper (I assume it would be Premium Photo Paper Glossy for your paper), select resolution, speed, quality, etc. You need to record all these settings, since you will need to use identical settings for printer AFTER your target is read and a profile created.

                                     

                                    3. Let your target dry at least an hour before reading. I prefer to let it dry overnight to insure the ink has dried, cured, and is done with it's little color shifting dance.

                                     

                                    4. Read the target and generate our profile. At this point, you should have a reasonably accurate profile. If you did anything wrong (like having ANY color management active in either PS or the driver when printing the target), do it over.

                                     

                                    5. If your printer profile is accurate, you should get results that are as good or better than you would using the generic Epson profile (and letting the printer manage colors). But, your driver must be configured EXACTLY as it was when you printed the original profiling target...No Color Adjustment, same media setting, quality, resolution, speed, etc. PS will be set to manage colors, you will select your custom profile, rendering intent, BPC, etc.

                                     

                                    I suspect an incorrectly built profile, which may point to an improperly printed target. You also want to be sure you have a clean nozzle check before printing your target for profiling.

                                     

                                    Let us know what you find.

                                     

                                    Lou

                                    • 15. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                                      Moore6931 Level 1

                                      June 22, 2010

                                       

                                      Hello Again:

                                       

                                      I thank you.

                                       

                                      As I mentioned in my previous email, printing via Windows Picture and Fax Viewer, with either the default printer settings or using the XRite custom printer profile, will provide good results.  If the custom printer profile were faulty, wouldn't it always cause poor prints?

                                       

                                      Another factor to consider is that printing with Photoshop Color Management and the default sRGB profile, the print was darker than when the XRite custom profile was used.

                                       

                                      When I printed the one page profiling target (which was multiple times to check and recheck every setting), it was printed from XRite to the printer.  Adobe was not involved with this printing.  For printing controls, I did select ICM printing and color management Off.

                                       

                                       

                                      Gator requested a not so dark photograph.  I don't understand the intent, since even a dark print should not be any different than a full spectrum or a high end photo.  Anyway, I used the Getty images, which have a reasonably full spectrum.  In each pair of scanned prints, the upper photo was printed with the printer managing the color and the lower print used Photoshop CS4 for color management.

                                       

                                      062210 Getty Images Comparison - 0 email.jpg

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      062210 Getty Image Comparison - 1 email.jpg

                                       

                                       

                                      062210 Getty Image Comparison - 2 email.jpg

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      062210 Getty Images Comparison - 3.jpg

                                       

                                      In each pair, the Photoshop managed color is darker.  This is especially noticable in

                                       

                                      1. The lower 7 gray patches,

                                      2. The upper right "teal" patch,

                                      3. The green patches and

                                      3. The upper left brown patch.

                                       

                                      This problem fascinates me and I want to learn the what's and why's of it.

                                       

                                      Scott

                                      • 16. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                                        Lou Dina Level 3

                                        Scott,

                                         

                                        Color managed programs are different from non-color managed programs. But you are generally correct....if you get approximately the same result printing to the Epson driver using the generic or custom profile with a non-color managed application, then something is fishy.

                                         

                                        Try deleting your Photoshop CS4 preference file. I'm not sure where it is located on a PC, since I use a Mac. There is no problem deleting this file, because Photosho will recreate it when starting if it doesn't find one in the proper location. The only liability is that all your settings are sent to the trash bin along with the Pref file. But, it's not a big deal to recreate your preferences.

                                         

                                        If that file is corrupt, you can get some very weird things happening. It's worth a try.

                                         

                                        Lou

                                        • 17. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                                          gator soup Level 4

                                          On a Mac, to rule out preferences, it is generally easier and more decisive (for me) to create a New User account and test in that account.

                                           

                                          You should also have tried Resetting the OS printer (Print & Fax) and Adding the suspect printer back on MAKING SURE IT IS THE DEFAULT PRINTER in case you are hitting that known bug which is known for printing dark/magenta/green prints on some OS/print drivers.

                                           

                                          But the bottom line from where I sit:

                                           

                                          The PDI print should should look very close to the Photoshop monitor — clean neutral grays, great skintones — your posted images look like your profile is bad, or you are setting up a bad Source Space to Print Space Conversion (or your system is bad or your printer driver is buggy).

                                          • 18. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                                            gator soup Level 4
                                            Color managed programs are different from non-color managed programs

                                             

                                             

                                            Yes, color management applications access a part of the ICC profile that tell printer how to proof (display/print) your color which may explain how your system is hosing the print (if your profiling package is defective). Some time back I suggested you use the canned profile your printer/paper/ink...was that ever done?

                                             

                                            Have your tried Photoshop> View> Proof SetUp> Custom: the print profile you are using?

                                             

                                            I am not a rocket scientist but if the profile is defective I would think it would show up there...

                                            • 19. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                                              digitaljanie

                                              I'm new to the forum and saw your "dark print" problem at the top of the list. I recently found a reference to a piece of software that may help you. I had students who were getting dark prints while using properly calibrated monitors and custom-made printer profiles. The problem seemed to be more prevalent in Apple computers and monitors, but at least one of my students experiencing the problem was on Windows. The software is called ColorEyes Display Pro. You can use it with your i1 Spectrophotometer or Colorimeter instead of the X-Rite software that comes with them. Here's a link to a free demo. It's a full version, but it times out in 10 days, I think. I tried it and it made a significant improvement in the "dark print" problem.

                                               

                                              Here's a link to the demo.

                                              http://www.integrated-color.com/productdemo/demo.html

                                               

                                              I hope this might be helpful.

                                              • 20. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                                                gator soup Level 4

                                                Good, too, just keep in mind:

                                                 

                                                1) The monitor profile has zero to do with how the file prints in Photoshop, and

                                                 

                                                2) The printer profile has zero to do with how the file displays in Photoshop.

                                                 

                                                3) The source profile is independent of Photoshop.

                                                 

                                                4) All Photoshop does for us is CONVERT the Source Space to the Proofing Space (monitor or print) so we can see what our file looks like.

                                                 

                                                Remember:

                                                 

                                                Photoshop can display a file correctly regardless of how right or wrong the printer is set up.

                                                 

                                                Photoshop can print a file correctly regardless of how right or wrong the monitor is set up.

                                                 

                                                The PDI file should tell a viewer pretty quickly where the problem lies—with the Monitor profile, or with the Printer profile/settings...

                                                • 21. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                                                  Moore6931 Level 1

                                                  June 23, 2010

                                                   

                                                  Dear All:

                                                   

                                                  Digital Janie, I thank you for your information and will look into the application.

                                                   

                                                  Gator, I have printed with the default Epson profiles.  The prints are good, when I print from Windows Picture and Fax Viewer.  The prints are dark, when I print from Photoshop with Photoshop managing the colors.

                                                   

                                                  In light of all of the information, I deleted the XRite printer profile for the glossy paper.  I then carefully created four new targets.

                                                   

                                                  Target 1 - Through XRite, a target for the R1900 printer and glossy paper

                                                   

                                                  Target 2 - Through Photoshop, a target for the R1900 printer and glossy paper

                                                   

                                                  Target 3 - Through XRite, a target for the R1900 printer and matte paper

                                                   

                                                  Target 4 - Through Photoshop, a target for the R1900 printer and matte paper

                                                   

                                                  In each case, I was careful that color management was disabled.  In Photoshop, I ensured that a profile was not associated with the file.  Even after 7+ hours of drying, I did not notice any variations between the pair of glossy prints or the pair of matte prints.

                                                   

                                                  I opened XRite and generated the corresponding profiles for the printer, after the 7+ hours of drying/curing time.

                                                   

                                                  When I print from Photoshop, via Photoshop managing the colors with the new profiles, then the prints are dark.  Again, I was careful to turn off color management in the printer and specify the appropriate paper.  When I print the file via Windows Picture and Fax Viewer and the printer uses the XRite profile (appropriate for the paper), the print is fine.

                                                   

                                                  When I select Photoshop - View - Proof Setup - Custom, then select one of the new printer profiles, then the screen view still looks good.  However, if I then select "Preserve RGB Numbers" then the screen view goes rather dark and a lot of green is lost (maybe all color).  I've not had time to read up on this feature.

                                                   

                                                  Because the Epson R1900 uses a gloss ink to enhance the glossy photos, I wondered if the extra gloss was a problem for reading the target.  Thus, I tried matte paper but these prints yielded only marginally lighter prints than the glossy paper.  I might try turning off the gloss ink and printing new targets.

                                                   

                                                  This morning, I added the profile query options, in Photoshop - View - Color Settings.  This evening, I noticed that RAW files are opened into Adobe RGB, in Bridge CS4; saved jpg's have the profile Adobe RGB.  If the file is then opened into Photoshop CS4, the query pops up about which profile to use (Bridge - Adobe RGB or Photoshop - sRGB).

                                                   

                                                  By the way, the file that I am using for the test has been around for a couple of years (i.e. long before the Epson R1900 or the new monitor).

                                                   

                                                  In Engineering, I learned that, when the problem defies the laws of physics, then go back to the beginning and see what you missed.  Well, I've gone back several times and you have guided me through the steps.  What am I missing!

                                                   

                                                  Because the profile works for Windows Picture and Fax View, I suspect that the profile is OK.  I don't understand the discrepancy between View - Proof Setup and File - Print.

                                                   

                                                  Scott

                                                  • 22. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                                                    Lou Dina Level 3

                                                    Scott,

                                                     

                                                    It sounds like you are doing things correctly. No, gloss ink will not cause a problem when printing or reading profiling targets.

                                                     

                                                    Checking Preserve RGB numbers basically shows you what your file will look like if you sent the unconverted RGB numbers in your file to your printer (ie, turning off color management in both the PS print dialog box AND the driver). Epson does a reasonably good job creating their "generic" profiles for their own media, so their generic profile for Epson Premium Glossy paper should be fairly close. If you do a soft proof preview using both their generic profile and your custom profile (with Preserve RGB checked in both cases) both previews should be reasonably close. They'll be ugly, because you are simulating what the print would look likeif sent to your printer unconverted. But, they should be fairly close to one another in appearance. If they are significantly different, it suggests your custom printer profile is off.

                                                     

                                                    We tried manually converting your file to your custom printer profile and you got the same dark result as when printing and allowing PS to manage colors. What I find inconsistent is that if you allow the printer to manage colors, and specify this same custom printer profile in the driver, you get a fairly close match. This should NOT happen. Are you positive you don't have another custom printer profile of the same name hiding somewhere on your system? If so, it is possible you are invoking this "better" custom profile from the Epson driver, but are calling up a different profile when allowing PS to manage colors. I know it sounds like a long shot, but I am grasping at straws for a logical solution.

                                                     

                                                    In order of least difficulty, you may wish to try the following.

                                                     

                                                    1) try working with a completely new image. Corrupted files aren't that common, but stranger things have happened. Make sure you save your edited file WITH the profile embedded.

                                                     

                                                    2) Try trashing your Photoshop preference file again to see if that helps. Close PS first, delete your pref file, then reopen PS. I know you tried that, so it may not help.

                                                     

                                                    3) Call XRite and see if someone in their tech support can help you.

                                                     

                                                    4) As a last resort, you can deactivate Photoshop, uninstall, then reinstall it. Perhaps you have a corrupted file. I'd save this for last because it involves the most work and hassle.

                                                     

                                                    Something is squirrely, and the cause is, no doubt, logical. Now, it is just a matter of figuring out what it is. By the way, do you have plenty of RAM and hard disk space available on your computer? I have heard of strange issues due to either being low, so PS doesn't have the necessary processing power to complete a task successfully (yes, grasping at straws here).

                                                     

                                                    Lou

                                                    • 23. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                                                      Lou Dina Level 3

                                                      Scott,

                                                       

                                                      One more thought....If you haven't done so recently, power off your computer and unplug the power cord. Leave it off for about 10 minutes, and to be certain you have completely discharged it, hold in the "power on" button on your computer (while it is still unplugged).This will help make sure the capacitors are completely discharged and should give you a "clean" restart.

                                                       

                                                      Then power it up. You might also consider doing a virus and malware scan, followed by a defrag of the disk. Good practice anyway.

                                                       

                                                      Finally, go into Photoshop Preferences > Performance, and set it so you are using about 70-80% of available memory. If you have a separate scratch disc, specify that also. When you make these changes, you will have to close and restart Photoshop for them to take effect.

                                                       

                                                      Hopefully, the above will clear out any potential funky stuff in your O/S, drives, RAM, etc. BTW, how much RAM do you have installed? Photoshop is pretty power hungry.

                                                       

                                                      Lou

                                                      • 24. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                                                        Larry Tseng Level 1

                                                        Hi Scott,

                                                         

                                                        I don't know if checking Windows XP itself would help, but it's worth a try

                                                        at this point, having rounded up all the usual suspects.

                                                         

                                                        On the display side, make sure Windows is using your custom monitor profile

                                                        for display (find this under your display properties).

                                                         

                                                        Also make sure that you don't have extraneous 'gamma', 'calibration' or

                                                        'lut' loaders floating around in your system startup folders (search for

                                                        folders with the name 'startup' on your hard drive to check). So if, for

                                                        example, you find a shortcut to Adobe Gamma Loader.exe in one of the startup

                                                        folders, delete it so that the Adobe Gamma Loader doesn't run at bootup time

                                                        and interfere with the loader that comes with your XRite package. On my XP

                                                        profiled with a pre-XRite i1Pro that came with i1Match, I have a shortcut to

                                                        LOGO Calibration Loader.exe in C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Start

                                                        Menu\Programs\Startup.

                                                         

                                                        On the print side, make sure Windows has not assigned a profile to the R1900

                                                        in case this is a factor. Right click the printer icon to access its

                                                        properties, then select manual profile assigment but leave the profile

                                                        blank.

                                                         

                                                        If the above doesn't do it, I think the next move is to see if it is

                                                        possible for you to perform a series of spot measurements with the i1Pro in

                                                        emissive and reflective modes (for monitor and print measurements) to

                                                        pinpoint the part of the system that is at fault.

                                                         

                                                        Larry

                                                        • 25. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                                                          gator soup Level 4
                                                          I have printed with the default Epson profiles.  The prints are good, when I print from Windows Picture and Fax Viewer.  The prints are dark, when I print from Photoshop with Photoshop managing the colors.

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          If that means specific Epson OEM matched printer-paper-ink profiles are also duplicating the problem, I would suggest putting the rocket science on hold for now and find out what's going on with your system, because something is amiss.

                                                           

                                                          Putting in a new hard drive and installing the 'suspect' OS, Ps, Epson driver would be [my] next move (since the problem apparently didn't clear in a New User account) — at least at the end of the four hours the OP would have an answer to the BUG-bad system question.

                                                           

                                                          Dark prints were a known bug with certain OSes and Epson drivers (if not Ps itself) but that was fixed with updaters...

                                                           

                                                          My last two tips:

                                                           

                                                          Run Cocktail OSX (google)

                                                           

                                                          Reset the hardware like Lou suggested.  I don't know what Apple is calling it these days, but my Mac Pros reset when I disconnect all cables for about a minute.  You will know it worked if your time-date reset.

                                                          • 26. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                                                            Moore6931 Level 1

                                                            June 24, 2010

                                                             

                                                            Hello All:

                                                             

                                                            Well, I've progressed part way through the list of steps to perform and items to check.  This is the status.

                                                             

                                                            1. After completing this list of steps and corrections, I tested two other images.  One image tended to be dark and the other was rather even throughout the spectrum.  Both original files were RAW; I opened them in Bridge, then Photoshop for printing.  Having passed through Bridge, the final file profile was Adobe RGB.  The results were

                                                                 a) Photoshop Color Management and the latest XRite driver provided darker prints than the screen.

                                                                 b) Printer Color Management and the latest XRite driver provided prints similar to the screen.

                                                             

                                                            2.My computer system is,

                                                                 a) Operating System and Applications - C:\; 40GB used of 250GB disk

                                                                 b) Working Files - D:\; 153GB used of 250GB disk

                                                                 c) Ram 1.86 GHz; 2GB installed

                                                                 d) Processor - Intel Core 2 Duo E6300

                                                                 e) Operating System - Windows XP with current updates

                                                             

                                                            3. The computer is shut down each night.  I have two battery back-ups to accommodate the entire system (computer, monitor, printers and scanner).  After shutting down the computer, I turn off both battery back-ups.

                                                             

                                                            4. Memory application in Photoshop

                                                                 a) RAM was set to 995MB (60%)

                                                                 b) RAM increased to 1194MB (71%)

                                                                 c) RAM available 1659MB

                                                                 d) Photoshop indicated that the ideal RAM availability was 912-1194MB

                                                             

                                                            5. The scratch disk is C:\, which has about 200GB available.

                                                             

                                                            6. There is only one monitor profile listed and it is the XRite generated profile.  The listed profile is the default.

                                                             

                                                            7. I noticed only the LOGO Calibration Loader.exe in the Startup directories.

                                                             

                                                            8. The default printer profile, in the R1900 printer properties was SPR1900 Watercolor Paper - Radiant White.  I reset the default with Manual selection and blank.  In fact, for a while, I removed all of the R1900 printer drivers from the directory.  I thought that this might fix the problem but it did not affect the prints.

                                                             

                                                            9. My system is not a MAC, so I cannot run Cocktail.

                                                             

                                                            10. Some time back, I talked with XRite about the problem.  After I explained what was happening, the tech said that their product had performed its function and the problem was elsewhere.  I was not overly pleased with his attitude of "my part worked, so blame someone else."  I had received similar comments from Epson, the video card support and others.  My opinion is that the maker of a product should support the product and the end use of it.  Maybe my attitude (responsibility/integrity) is the reason I've been fired.

                                                             

                                                            I'm almost to uninstall/reinstall Photoshop, in the hopes that something happened during the installation.

                                                             

                                                            Sadly, after all this, the problem persists.

                                                             

                                                            A question.  Is there a technical or quality improvement in the prints by Photoshop managing the color versus the printer managing the color?  I admit that I am wondering if I am/we are spending a lot of time trying to resolve an issue that already has a work around (i.e. printer color management).

                                                             

                                                            Scott

                                                            • 27. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                                                              Level 4

                                                              While reluctant to give advice on printing in a Windows system, I think I am in a position to clarify a possible platform-agnostic misunderstanding.

                                                               

                                                              Moore6931 wrote:

                                                               

                                                              …Both original files were RAW; I opened them in Bridge…

                                                               

                                                              No, you did not.  Bridge doesn't "open", edit, save, manipulate or otherwise alter image files.  Bridge is nothing more than a very straightforward file browser.  When you invoke an open command, Bridge merely hands the file over to the appropriate application, whether that be Adobe Camera Raw, Photoshop, Illustrator, Acrobat or even MS Word.

                                                               

                                                              Moore6931 wrote:

                                                               

                                                              … Having passed through Bridge, the final file profile was Adobe RGB.

                                                               

                                                              Again, the files were merely handed over to Adobe Camera Raw, they did not "pass through Bridge".  It was Camera Raw that opened them, and if it opened them in the Adobe RGB space, that was because that was the color space you defined in your Camera Raw output options, which you can invoke and change by clicking on the Camera Raw output options button, a button that unfortunately looks like an underlined link right below the Camera Raw preview panel.  You can change any of the Camera Raw output parameters there.

                                                               

                                                              Did you actually soft-proof the images with the specific paper/ink/printer profile in Photoshop before sending them to the printer?  Did they appear darker there?

                                                               

                                                              What was the printer profile you chose?  It should categorically NOT be a device-independent profile like Adobe RGB, but the highly specific, device-dependent profile for the particular combination of printer/ink/paper you are printing to.  Your description is confusing when you type:

                                                              Moore6931 wrote:

                                                               

                                                              8. The default printer profile, in the R1900 printer properties was SPR1900 Watercolor Paper - Radiant White.  I reset the default with Manual selection and blank.  In fact, for a while, I removed all of the R1900 printer drivers from the directory.

                                                              You actually left the choice of printer profile blank?  Sorry if I'm misunderstanding, but that would be a huge mistake. 

                                                               

                                                              As I said above, you need the specific paper/printer/ink profile there, either a canned one from Epson for the paper and printer you are using, or a custom profile made for your particular printer unit and paper.

                                                               

                                                              _______________________________

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              As for your last question:

                                                               

                                                              Moore6931 wrote:

                                                               

                                                              A question.  Is there a technical or quality improvement in the prints by Photoshop managing the color versus the printer managing the color?  I admit that I am wondering if I am/we are spending a lot of time trying to resolve an issue that already has a work around (i.e. printer color management).

                                                               

                                                              Though that's a workflow I personally avoid at all costs, some users obtain satisfactory results (satisfactory for their standards, not necessarily mine) by letting the printer manage the colors, but they CONVERT the files to the specific color space of the custom or canned profile for the combination of paper/printer/ink before sending the files to the printer.  It's very important to use CONVERT TO PROFILE, not Assign Profile when doing that.

                                                               

                                                              Do not convert the document to a printer profile when letting Photoshop manage colors, of course.

                                                               

                                                              In my particular case, I obtain flawless prints letting Photoshop manage the colors.  This applies to printing to Epson printers using a variety of Epson, Pictorico, Hannemühle and Ilford papers in any version of Photoshop from 7.0.1 through 11.0.2 ("CS4"), all of which are installed on my system.  My ACR workflow options are set to 16-bit ProPhoto RGB, which is also my normal working space in Photoshop.

                                                               

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              Wo Tai Lao Le

                                                              我太老了

                                                              • 28. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                                                                Lou Dina Level 3

                                                                Scott,

                                                                 

                                                                A question.  Is there a technical or quality improvement in the prints  by Photoshop managing the color versus the printer managing the color?  I  admit that I am wondering if I am/we are spending a lot of time trying  to resolve an issue that already has a work around (i.e. printer color  management).

                                                                 

                                                                I don't use an Epson printer currently, so my memory is a bit fuzzy on the driver capabilities. But I can say with certainty that my Canon iPF6100 does NOT support Black Point Compensation. So, If I want to use BPC when printing (which is almost always) I have to do that in Photoshop. There are two ways to accomplish that.

                                                                 

                                                                1. Convert your file manually to your chosen printer profile before printing, using whatever rendering intent you prefer (with BPC checked). If you do this, you would turn off color management in both PS and your driver, since the file has already been converted. The disadvantage is that this file is now a single purpose file, designed only for printing to a single printer/paper/ink combination. Of course, you can undo those steps in Photoshop and get back to your standard RGB working space (presuming you haven't saved it after converting to the printer space).

                                                                 

                                                                2. The other way to utilize BPC is by letting Photoshop Manage Colors and selecting your output profile, rendering intent and BPC from the print dialog box. The source file will remain in your RGB working space and the file will be converted "on the fly" as it is spooled to your driver. Of course, the driver should be set to no color adjustment since PS is handling the conversion. I know you know all this, of course.

                                                                 

                                                                You should get identical results with both methods. And if I choose to print with BPC off, I can let my Canon printer handle colors, and all three methods should print identically (assuming the same rendering intent and BPC off).

                                                                 

                                                                If your R1900 driver does support BPC, then you could use driver color management. If not, you can choose method 1 above. Something is still wrong, but that would be a work around. But if your R1900 doesn't support BPC and method 1 doesn't work, you're screwed and need to find the solution. What you are experiencing is screwy and should not be happening. It might be a corruption issue,  but it might be some arcane setting somwhere in PS, your driver, or whatever. If you don't solve it  soon, see if you can find a qualified color management guru in your neck  of the woods who can come over and help you. I'd do it if I were local.

                                                                • 29. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                                                                  Moore6931 Level 1

                                                                  July 5, 2010

                                                                   

                                                                  Hello Ya'll:

                                                                   

                                                                  I did not drop off the end of the Earth.  A week ago, I reinstalled Windows XP and all of the applications, in the hopes of resolving the problem.  Last Monday morning, the rebuild of the C: drive was finished.  Monday evening, I got a nasty virus on my computer; my ever so up to date Norton Anti-virus and Internet protection (Windows XP, too) was not able to stop this one.  As I was unable to get rid of the virus, the computer was in the shop for the past week.  I picked it up, this afternoon, and am getting going, again.  I'll update you on the status.

                                                                   

                                                                  Scott

                                                                  • 30. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                                                                    Moore6931 Level 1

                                                                    July 12, 2010

                                                                     

                                                                    Dear Lou and everyone:

                                                                     

                                                                    The problem has been solved.  It seems that there were two sources for the problem symptoms.

                                                                     

                                                                    The first problem source was addressed by reinstalling the operating system and Photoshop CS4, on C:\.  The harddisk was reformatted, also.  My data files are held on D:\, so they were not affected by this work.  The result was a much closer match between the monitor and the printout.

                                                                     

                                                                    The second problem source was addressed by further reducing the monitor luminance to 85, which had been 90.  This is a far cry from the "standard" flat panel recommendation of 120.

                                                                     

                                                                    It is my error that I did not consider the luminance difference between a CRT (85-90) and a flat panel (120).  Because I had just upgraded from a 21" CRT, I should have recognized the significance of the recommendations. Sometimes, trusting/accepting recommendations will not get the job done.  Well, education comes.

                                                                     

                                                                    I thank each of you for your thought and time towards resolving this operator's errors.

                                                                     

                                                                    Scott

                                                                     

                                                                    P.S. If you are interested in viewing some of my photography, please go to envisioningmoore.com.

                                                                    • 31. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                                                                      Lou Dina Level 3

                                                                      Scott...what an ordeal. I'm so glad to hear you got the problem solved. After allt he work we did, I guessed it might have something to do with the O/S, program or preference corruption, conflicts, or something like that. It also doesn't surprise me that 85 cd/m2 is giving you a good monitor to print match. That's the luminance that always seems to work best for me. One caution is to keep your working environment moderate to dim, without bright lights in your field of vision or shining brightly on your monitor, if at all possible. It definitely affects perception and editing.

                                                                       

                                                                      Happy printing!

                                                                       

                                                                      Lou

                                                                      • 32. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                                                                        thedigitaldog MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                                        Moore6931 wrote:

                                                                         

                                                                        The problem has been solved.  It seems that there were two sources for the problem symptoms.

                                                                         

                                                                        The first problem source was addressed by reinstalling the operating system and Photoshop CS4, on C:\.  The harddisk was reformatted, also.  My data files are held on D:\, so they were not affected by this work.  The result was a much closer match between the monitor and the printout.

                                                                        Coming into this late , glad to hear its working. The reinstall of the OS/PS kind of makes sense to me but be aware, I’m a Mac guy. The reason I say this is due to comments above where it was written that Printer Manages Color worked, Photoshop Manages Color doesn’t and a comment that they should produce the same results. In a perfect world yes. Printer Manages Color requires the OS, the print driver and the host application each to be talking and working correctly. It is not always (some would say not usually) the same as Application (Photoshop) manages color. The app hands off the data to the driver and the OS has its hands in the process. I suspect something, either with the OS or Photoshop got mucked up. So the fix makes some sense. Printer Manages Color is supposed to be an easy (and effective) way to handle print color management. But sometimes it works, sometimes not and there are at least three items that have to correctly interact.

                                                                         

                                                                        In cases where Application Manages Color fails to work despite all the best efforts, its usually a good idea to give Printer Manages Color a try. Sometimes that solves the problem although it is still a mystery why the application isn’t handing of the data correctly. On the Mac, there have been numerous issues with Epson drivers, the OS and in some cases various applications. An OS update will fix (or break) this, or an update to a driver will do the same. Its a big mess out there in printer land!

                                                                         

                                                                        In terms of matching a print to a display, the critical factor, once you deal with proper output of the color managed data is setting the luminance of the display (cd/m2) to produce a visual match to the viewing booth next to the display. There is no right value other than the one that produces a match. The same is true of the white point! The idea given that “120 cd/m2” is the correct setting, without having the viewing conditions in the equation is simply silly. The various companies that make these recommendations have done more harm than good here. Are you using a Solux bulb(s), a Fluorescent booth with one or more bulbs? How far is the light from the print? Its simply not possible to advise on a luminance setting without taking this into account.

                                                                         

                                                                        A picture is worth a thousands words. Here’s such a picture illustrating print to screen matching:

                                                                         

                                                                        http://digitaldog.net/files/Print_to_Screen_Matching.jpg

                                                                        • 33. Re: Monitor - Printout Mismatch
                                                                          Moore6931 Level 1

                                                                          July 15, 2010

                                                                           

                                                                          Dear Andrew:

                                                                           

                                                                          I thank you for your response.

                                                                           

                                                                          My "problem" was more than a mismatch between the monitor and the prints.  The prints didn't match.  When I changed from Photoshop CS4 manages the color to printer color management, with all other settings consistent (i.e. file, paper, profile, intent, quality, etc), the print brightness was drastically different.

                                                                           

                                                                          Based upon everyone's responses and my Mechanical Engineering years, this problem was defying the Laws of Physics.  So, the next step was to start over by reinstalling Windows XP and the applications.  The problem was resolved with this effort.

                                                                           

                                                                          Then, I made an adjustment to the monitor to fine tune the match and voila'.

                                                                           

                                                                          I am amazed that your monitor/printer match photo shows a 50% reduction in the print view to be comparable to a 150 cD/sq m luminance of the monitor.  That is a very bright system.  It seems that might be too bright for long term viewing.  My current luminance is 85 cD/sq m, which is quite comfortable.

                                                                           

                                                                          Wow.  This has been quite an education, as well as introduction, into the realm of color management.  I want to improve my photography and its related services, so I look forward to further advances.

                                                                           

                                                                          Again, I thank you for your response.

                                                                           

                                                                          Scott