17 Replies Latest reply on Jun 9, 2010 5:19 AM by DiKlop

    Problems and Questions about Premiere CS5

    Stefan Rommel

      I just got my CS5 (5.0.1 installed) and started some work after using Vegas Pro for a longer time. Recently I upgraded my computer to the following:

       

      ASUS P6T mainboard

      INTEL i7 930 CPU @ 3.6GHz

      8GB Ram

      Win 7 64 Ultimate

      several actual SATA Harddisks

      NVidia GTX260

       

      I just modified the .txt to use the GTX for the AME. First problem I found is that encoding to H.264 or MPEG2 (Bluray preferences) seems to be slow from my AVCHD stuff (from Panasonic SD700 e.g.). Also the CPU load stays at 56% to 70% when rendering. There are no effects on the clips. I wonder why the CPU load doesn´t go up to 100% as with Vegas.

       

      There is also no difference in rendering time using H.264 with or without CUDA enabled in the PP dialog (still no effects). From what I´ve read on the NVidia site CUDA should also boost the encoding using H.264 with a CUDA card (ok, they state that for the Quadros).

       

      Next is, how can a clip be played reverse. I tried clip speed to -1, but that´s crawling slow even when there is the yellow line. It works fine with MPEG, but not with AVCHD. Is there another possibility for reversed playing?

       

      Where can I look to improve the performance? I don´t think about the speed of the HD´s since they are above 100MB/s. That must be enough with compressed video that´s about 3MB/s. Source files are on a different harddisk.

       

       

      Thanks for your help and please excuse my bad english.

      Roland.

        • 1. Re: Problems and Questions about Premiere CS5
          Colin Brougham Level 6

          Keep in mind that the hack is just that--a hack. Expecting Formula 1 performance out of a Vespa just because you put racing stripes on it isn't the same as getting a Formula 1 race car. In short, to get the performance out of Premiere that you want, you have to play by the rules and get one of the approved cards for hardware-accelerated MPE. I seem to remember other folks mentioning poor MPEG performance when using the hack...

           

          Did you try -100% for reverse instead of -1%?

           

          To increase performance, get an approved GPU and don't use a temporally-based source codec like AVCHD.

          • 2. Re: Problems and Questions about Premiere CS5
            jeremy d. Level 3

            We have a hip and cool Reverse Speed checkbox for that now in Speed/Duration

             

            Did you try -100% for reverse instead of -1%?
            • 3. Re: Problems and Questions about Premiere CS5
              Colin Brougham Level 6

              jeremy d. wrote:

               

              We have a hip and cool Reverse Speed checkbox for that now in Speed/Duration

              Oh, yeah... I knew that

               

              Shows you how much I use reverse speed

              • 4. Re: Problems and Questions about Premiere CS5
                Stefan Rommel Level 1

                Ok, I meant the checkbox to display -100% in the clip (still one foot in vegas :-( ).

                 

                Colin, I disagree what you wrote about the GTX260. It is nearly the same card (chip) than a FX4800, so nothing lame. Maybe rendering is accelerated with the quadro, maybe not, I don´t know.

                 

                The other problem is still the only 2/3 CPU load. Looks not the great upgrade since my previous Q6600 had some more load. In the bottom line the speed difference of the two systems is not that much.

                • 5. Re: Problems and Questions about Premiere CS5
                  Colin Brougham Level 6

                  Colin, I disagree what you wrote about the GTX260. It is nearly the same card (chip) than a FX4800, so nothing lame. Maybe rendering is accelerated with the quadro, maybe not, I don´t know.

                  I didn't say it was lame; what I said is that trying to force an unapproved card into doing something its not supposed to may have unintended effects, and that may be what you're seeing. Having "nearly the same card" is not the same as having a approved GPU. I stand by my assertion that a hack is still a hack, and you're sort of on your own when it comes to how well it works. I'm all for trying to squeeze life out of older/cheaper equipment, but this may not get you the results you're after.

                  • 6. Re: Problems and Questions about Premiere CS5
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    Colin,

                     

                    I completelety agree with you. Overclocking, hacking and stuff like that entails risks if you don't really know what you are doing and you are on your own, unless you have an idiot on stand by to help solve the issues you created.

                     

                    Sometimes things look very simple, but are a lot harder to achieve in practice. If you feel confident, please go ahead, bump your head a few times, go back, learn from your mistakes, and go ahead again. That is where progress is made, But if you don't have the expertise, the time to learn from your mistakes, to experiment and try again, better keep away from this and go the proven route...

                    • 7. Re: Problems and Questions about Premiere CS5
                      Stefan Rommel Level 1

                      Harm,

                       

                      I had the same opinion some time ago, especially long ago when I tried with AMD Athlon XP computers. That stuff was not stable even at stock speeds. But back to Intel I never had problems even with overclocked CPUs (Q6600 eg. @ comfortable 3GHz). I´m a bit confused that you write a bit negative about that. On PPBM4 I found you back on place one, with an OC i7 and an also unsupported GTX480.

                       

                      I wonder how I could make Premiere run a bit faster, if possible, and how to make it use my CPU better when rendering. Is it normal that only 2/3th of the CPU performance is used when rendering AVCHD to H.264 (which is nearly the same ;-) )? And does the GPU not help with the encoding of H.264? I don´t know if CUDA sports the encoding, NVidia tries to make me believe that. But the information is very loose, maybe they mean that the card helps with effects and so boosts the output, what is quite true. But I don´t find any acceleration with "naked" transcoding in PP. So I wonder if a GTX480 would help anything as long as I don´t use many tracks or to many effects.

                       

                      Is your transcoding faster with CUDA enabled?

                       

                      Stefan.

                      • 8. Re: Problems and Questions about Premiere CS5
                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                        Stefan,

                         

                        Please keep this in perspective as a general remark. We all see all kinds of questions here, and we mostly recognize people for what they are:

                         

                        1. Creative geniuses, like Colin,

                         

                        2. General editing guru's, like Bill (H) and Graig,

                         

                        3. Noob's,

                         

                        4. Community Experts, who like to remain in the background, like Jeff and Curt,

                         

                        5. The technically inclined experts, like the other Bill (G),

                         

                        6. Some very much appreciated Adobe employees with extremely valuable input and behind the scenes look on things, like Dennis, Wil and Todd.

                         

                        7. and the idiot on stand by to help solve the issues you  created, like myself.

                         

                        8. and others not easily categorized.

                         

                        Of course with excuses to other very valuable contributors for not naming them explicitly. Next time around...

                         

                        Don't take this personally, but often I get a feeling from reading posts here that a lot of people install PR without any experience, without a basic understanding of NLE, without any idea of the hardware they use, without ... (fill it in) and only a desire to edit. There is nothing wrong with that. Don't misunderstand me, that is how most of us started and some of us have gotten along quite well. We learned and progressed and learned some more and some of us are now able to help others with those seemingly unsurmountable hurdles they face.

                         

                        I maintain that I am an autodidact, which means I had an idiot as a teacher. but then maybe that is the reason I'm still  that idiot on stand-by.

                         

                        MPE is in essence of benefit for rendering / previewing. With encoding there is no discernable benefit from MPE. At least I have not seen any difference.

                         

                        Sorry for this incoherent story.

                        • 9. Re: Problems and Questions about Premiere CS5
                          Stefan Rommel Level 1

                          Harm, I don´t take things personal I read in a forum and I hope you don´t do either. Often I find posts where people write long stories that have less to do with the topics. That´s with photography and it also seems to be with video.

                           

                          The simple questions were if it is usual that PPCS5 doesn´t use the power of the CPU like Vegas for example or if there are some skills to optimise some settings in PPCS5.

                           

                          The seconds question was about "GPU accelerated video encoding" as shown here (last video): http://www.nvidia.com/object/adobe_PremiereproCS5.html

                          Here NVidia clearly makes us believe that CUDA accelerates "video encoding" (H.264 here). The truth seems to be that CUDA "only" accelerates the "rendering" (the effects and mixing of several tracks). Don´t understand me wrong, rendering performance is great using cuda (MPE IS used here!!!). But I hoped that "encoding" is also accelerated like with other software like TMPG and that I did something wrong or I needed a real quadro to see an acceleration. By watching the NVidia video several times and zoomed I now found that the clip must be very short (12MB output). So the speed seems to be the same as with my system (about realtime, not faster), so no acceleration to the "encoding". Would have been nice...

                           

                          CS5 seems to have some bottlenecks against Vegas and so I´m disappointed that it doesn´t even charge the complete performance of the CPU. Try converting AVC 1920x1080 50p (Panasonic SD700) to 50i or 720p (which makes MUCH sense when you need to crop...think you understand if you think about that ;-) ). That takes MUCH longer than using Vegas. On the other side using effects is faster using PPCS5 (CUDA). Nothing perfect here :-(.

                           

                           

                          By the way: I do NLE (not professional) back to Matrox Mystique/Rainbow Runner, Fast AV Master and so on and did the fight against problems like async sound and so on. I also know that HD speed WAS an issue with that (had SCSI from that time to now, finished with that when getting the i7), but not today using MPEG or H.264, even not at 80MBit/s. Using DV may demand FAST HD´s cause the codec is so simple that you can achieve several times real time. But I don´ t use DV any more cause quality is outdated in my eyes in most cases.

                           

                           

                          So it looks like my CPU stays cool using PPCS5 and that there is no need for a GTX480 or quadro since there is no acceleration compared to my GTX260 for my demands. Maybe there will be H.264 acceleration (encoding) in an update one day...

                           

                           

                          Stefan.

                          • 10. Re: Problems and Questions about Premiere CS5
                            zogomogo

                            Hi Stefan,

                            I own the Panasonic HDC-SD700 as well. I am gonna buy a new comp within a few days, which would have almost the same configuration as yours. I just want to use i7-860 instead of 930. I also intend to edit in AP CS5. It would be extremly helpfull for me to know, how is your editing workflow running on this system. Do you need to wait for previews? Or it runs just smoothly and in real time? Is there a big difference whether you have some 3 video tracks versus 6 ones? I dont care about encoding time that much, I can let it run through the night, but I do care if I would be able to do my editing without any unpleasant waiting for rendering cross fades and other effects. Is your system capable to play back the timeline without any effects smoothly at all? If so, is that possible at full resolution?

                             

                            I need to decide about buying GTX260 or GTX470. I need the GPU power just for video rendering, I use to play no games. So it is very important for me to know, how good is your system to manage the SD700s files. When it is just fine even with GTX260, I better save my money for something else...

                            Please respond.

                            • 11. Re: Problems and Questions about Premiere CS5
                              Stefan Rommel Level 1

                              Hello zogomogo,

                               

                              The Panafiles work really fine on my system. Only the FullHD 50p files run not as perfect as they could, but the format isn´t offical, so no problem.

                              I like the 50p format because it gives more headroom for cropping for example. Output is unluckily slow when exporting to 50i but useable when converting to 720p.

                              When using the AME accelerated effects and filters I have no rendering time, everything is smooth. I have no comparison to faster cards, seems nobody has. That was the case I started this thread. Seems that encoding isn´t faster using a cuda card, only rendering of effects and filters. But that also a GREAT improvement.

                              My timeline is playing smoothly without rendering when using accelerated effects/filters, but I tried only 2 tracks up to now. I`m not able to test this now, maybe I could do that in a few days.

                               

                              Stefan.

                              • 12. Re: Problems and Questions about Premiere CS5
                                zogomogo Level 1

                                Hi Stefan,

                                thanks for your answer. You wrote that 50p footage is not as smooth as you would wish. That is exactly what I like to know - how you system manages 50p footage of Pany. Could you describe it in more detail? First - are you able to PLAY the 50p footage smoothly in some player on your comp? When you edit in AP CS5, is the playback stuttering even if you set the resolution of preview at 1/4? How would you describe overall feeling of editing 50p footage? It is not quite smoothe, but it is OK, or it is just very unpleasant? Sorry for putting so much questions here, but you are so far only person I found with the same PC configuration + CS5+Pany as I have.

                                Thanks

                                Zogo

                                • 13. Re: Problems and Questions about Premiere CS5
                                  DiKlop Level 1

                                  Cuda can improve the effects/resize rendering time, but not h264 or mpeg2 encoding, because CUDA make encoding fast, but VERY bad in quality! Every program i tested, that used CUDA make ONLY degradation of quality at the same bitrate. Do you really need fast, but bad video? Change the "Quality" at the AME to 1.

                                  • 14. Re: Problems and Questions about Premiere CS5
                                    zogomogo Level 1

                                    Very bad quality from CUDA rendering? Could you post some short videos on YouTube which would be encoded with and without CUDA so we can see the difference?

                                    • 15. Re: Problems and Questions about Premiere CS5
                                      DiKlop Level 1

                                      What program do you want to see?

                                      CyberLink Power Producer shifts luma vs chroma per 1 frame in CUDA mode.

                                      Badaboom is very bad (i can put some videos on youtube, but you ca find many discussions on internet yourself). Creators of Badaboom says, that Badaboom is fast and good quality (vs oter programs, that slow and excellent quality). All programs, that i found cannot convert to x264 as good, as in CPU mode.

                                      • 16. Re: Problems and Questions about Premiere CS5
                                        zogomogo Level 1

                                        I like to see the Premiere CS5 of course.

                                        • 17. Re: Problems and Questions about Premiere CS5
                                          DiKlop Level 1

                                          Premiere CAN NOT encode using CUDA because CUDA encoding is every time worse, than CPU encoding! That is why there us NO CUDA encoding in Premiere. )))